Met my husband in '92; he was a Senior in high school and I was junior. Fell madly in love with him...fast forward to the fall of '95...relationship was doing great, but no commitment on my husbands part...he had this great plan of how he wanted things before moving in together...yet he took no steps to head in that direction. He lived at home, mom and dad still paid for a lot of things. The last straw for me was his inability to at least commit to a joint savings account to start saving for this set amount we had to have in order to take the next level...he refused. We broke up and he fought hard to keep me around, its just I was already checked out. I went through my wild stage, dated, clubbed, slept with whoever and whenever...didn't believe in love. Started getting into a local chat room for even more attention. I liked the way the attention made me feel. Met a guy on there, Greg, who basically I became very attracted to his personality...and we talked on the phone, chat for awhile. I cared for him alot. We finally met...and guess what...he was not at all who he said he was...he weighed over 400 lbs and had shown me othe pictures that weren't him. Didn't matter I kind of fell in love with who he was. He was very manipulative...come to find out a very bad guy...during this time he was going to court for what I thought was possible charges for assult because he hurt some guy in a fight...nope, he was a child molester and the victim was his sister. I couldn't hold a job due to my depression, we lived in a trashy hotel...the kind you pay by the week and it was dirt cheap. I didn't know where my next meal would come from. Greg finally coaxed me in to contacting my ex (current husband) to see if we could borrower money. I set it up and went to his parents house...instead of grabbing money and going, he talked to me, he told me how much he loved me still, he asked if I had a way out of my situation would I take it, I said yes. Within a couple weeks, Brian (husband) rescued me literally. I had stopped paying my bills, lost my car, had tickets because I had no car insurance, had no job, I was rock bottom. This was in summer of '97. I got back on my feet, took care of tickets and court fees, found a job (which I still work there - 11 years in August). We got married in September of '99.

Our days consisted of work, home to eat, Brian went to his computer to play games until bedtime, and I'd go to my computer to chat. No attention or emotional support from my husband. The chat site gave me attention...they were locals. A guy at work showed interest and I flirted. I flirted with the people online because it made me feel good. I was a very selfish person with a void to fill...so I acted on it. I ended up cheating on my husband with several guys all within a short amount of time. He found out, I came clean...more by discovery then full disclosure. We seperated for 4 months. During this time I realized what I had and tried to get him back. He finally felt he could give us a 2nd chance. This was in early 2001 that reconciled. By accident...cause we weren't ready, I got pregnant with our first child. Things seemed great between us...we were moving on. Neither of us ever sought out conciling for what happened. Next comes along my son who was born 10-2003. I was on bed rest for 4 months and became very lonely and found myself responding to an e-mail from my ex (greg). I disclosed information about my family, how I was feeling, he asked me several times to come visit, I said no...I even talked about and remembered some sexual experiences we had. These e-mails were found by my husband after my sone was born. He never told me he found them until he left the anger and hurt build up for many months. During this I renewed my faith in Christ and I became a different person...Brian couldn't take the guilt of keeping his secret any longer and laid it on me. It came out of nowhere for me. He was very angry, felt betrayed, couldn't trust me, felt I settled for him (2nd place). He wanted out of the marriage and he had made up his mind. This was the first time I came to marriage builders.

I fought for my husband...I tried to seek guidance and advice from this site. What I didn't do is give my husband the space he needed to work things out. I'd want to constantly talk about it...ask if he had decided anything. At this time he slept in a seperate room. Due to his coldness and lack of wanting to try and fix what was brokent he was not into it. I told him I thought there was someone else...he denied it. One day I picked up our joint cell phone and hit redial...thinking it would dial directly to the house so I could ask him something...a girl answered; double take...hung up and headed home. I asked him about it and he told me it was a co-worker of his who lived two states away in Arizona. I tried to tell him that as long as he was e-mailing, calling her, confiding in her, that we wouldn't be able to fix our marriage. He said he liked talking with her because she was easy to talk to...that she was just a friend and that he refused to stop communicating with her. Eventually me always nagging and pushing him to make a decsion, drove him to lie about a hunting trip he was taking with a buddy from work. He made up where he was going, who with, etc...went so far as to pack his bags as if actually doing it. I was a little suspicious, but had no evidence.

The day he left I happened to just send an e-mail to his gal pal in AZ. I got an out of office response for the same days that Brian had off. My heart sank. I called the guy he was going hunting with...he was at work and had no idea. Later that evening I finally reached Brian after frantically trying all day. This trip of his happened after 4 or 5 months of me trying to make things work. I gave up...I told him if that's where he wants to be and that's how he wants handle things by lying then come Monday morning I'd give him what he wanted...a divorce. Yet he proceeds to tell me that's not what he wants...he will come home, but he wasn't leaving until the next day. I said fine...even after he left her house, he texted her and called her on his way back home. I think we tried a couple sessions of marriage counseling...but never followed through.

Since 11-2005 I have done everything in my power to offer reading materials, such as though provided on this websites, many christian books which detail the differences of love langues, how our communication is so much different and how to learn what the other is saying...many times if there was a marriage seminar or an on-going marriage course at church I'd ask to go...I've even asked him to consider going to Marriage Builders weekend...we'd start the books...and he would never finish...he didn't really seem excited or willing to go to any of the marriage events over the past 2.5 years. I've given him ideas on how to help fullfil my emotional needs...he might try for a day and then he goes back to his old ways.

There is no sex between us...when there is...it's a quickie for him and it's just sex. There is no kissing on a regular basis...the only touching I get is him squeezing my boobs in passing...

Three weeks ago we had one of our fights about how things haven't changed and I was growing very unhappy, feeling unloved, and alone...and it ended by him throwing his hands up in the air and saying he gives up...he can't make me happy. He did that in 2005 and it hurt. It was uncalled for and it took him 24 hours to really say anything about it. Yet a switch went of in me...

Our fights always end up where I'm the reason he is who he is...he takes no responsibility for who he is; just deflects everything back to me...or he changes the conversation over to him. Leaving all tht I feel unresolved. For months I've telling him I feel even worse after I talk to him because of everything bad I do or don't do.

I haven't been feeling like trying anymore...I'm tired of trying and him not showing the same desire...I told him I needed someone to talk to. He'd either say he was tired, too busy, didn't what to say, etc...

So last week when he was at his lease with is brother again, I broke down and tried to find a good chat sight...not knowing that you had to pay for match.com, I had set up a brief profile so I could begin searching for a male to talk to...didn't get that far cause they wanted money...didn't do it and never thought about it again. didn't realize it leaves the profile up until you delete it. I finally just ended up using the chat rooms on my myspace account. Found a male to talk to who has three kids, is married, and safely miles away in New York (TX here). I told him my situation...and went over this whole story...asked for advice...he gave his opinion...we sharded personal information about our families...etc...Many of the things he said to try...I had already tried. For three days I would chat with him in the evening...Brian came over last night to be funny and see what I was doing...I had the chat box minimized and freaked out that he was gonna see me talking to another male. I panicked and closed it out...forever lost. he was hurt and shocked, went to bed. This morning he was trying to follow up on me...found he couldn't access my myspace account...found my profile on match.com...the little I had on there...was hurt that the status said seperated (doesn't give a married option). He felt betrayed, hurt, and feels he can't trust me anymore because I was hiding things.

So...I've cheated on him...broke his trust there...3 years later he discovered I was sharing personal information with an ex who he hated and even talked about the old sex life we had. I again was hiding it and broke his trust.

Last night you saw what I had been doing for the past three days...and now he doesn't know if he can trust me. He doesn't think he can make me happy. He admits he hasn't done all he could the past 2.5 years to repair our marriage.

The two e-mailing issues, although not cheating or affairs, were hidden and he had to find out about them...hurts him as much as my actual physical affair.

He doesn't think books help, even though he hasn't ever completed one. He only takes my advice on what will fill me up emotionally maybe for a day or two after we talk and then he goes back to his old ways...although he makes attempts that he would like to receive and doesn't understand why I don't give him credit for that. I don't even realize that's what he is doing because it has no effect on me...not what makes me tick. He admits he has never really healed from 8 years ago.

Where do we go from here? Do we seperate because I've hurt him too much and doesn't feel he can trust me? Do we found one heck of a marriage counselor and don't stop going until we fix this?

I know many of you will be very hard on me when you respond because of my actions...I'm ready to take it and I'm ready to do what it takes to fix my problem.

But surely I'm not the only one who has hurt this marriage, am I?

Way too much baggage. In my opinion, there is no way that the two of you can successfully build a relationship based on your mutual past histories as things stand today. Each of you is giving FREE RENT in your heads to the trauma of the past and THAT will not provide you with stability for the future. This applies to both your marriage history and your personal history and it applies to BOTH of you equally; no moral high ground for either.

Fast forward. Take a look around you. What do you see? Why my goodness, two kids the two of you have produced, and neither of whom have asked that mommy and daddy don't know how to act like adults. See, this is both your problem, you aren't acting like grownups.

What has happened in the past only effects the future if you let it. Self interest and selfish interest for the "Good times," has no place in the hearts of someone who loves their children and who want to raise them to become productive adults. You won't find someone to solve your problems except you, so quit looking. Your husband rescued you and he isn't gonna find his mama in you, nor is he going to find the same person he rejected before he decided you really were important.

Don't never look back, something might be gaining on you. You have to look at the future, not the past. And you have to have a reason to look at the future. Try looking at your kids.

Of course all that is easier said than done. But done means you have to start somewhere. I suspect that money is a problem, so marriage coaching might be an issue. I suspect neither of you are big on reading, so a list of books might fall on one or more deaf set of ears. I suspect both of you would like to find a magic button to push or a 20 second sound bite that solves everything, but that isn't gonna happen either.

The early thirties are the time when most folks either start acting like grownups or screw up the rest of their lives.

Up to BOTH of you. But a solution starts with one person of the two of you. And it starts with a change of attitude by one of you. And the attitude change has to be associated with the kids. I will suggest that a list of books might be valid if one of you will commit to reading several as a start.

BUT, being a grownup is a process of learning and growing that never ends. And it means accepting responsibility for who you are and what you do and what you have done, especially the making of and responsibility for those two kids.

Larry

First off Larry, thank you for taking the time to read my very long post. I love to read...I just stopped right alone with him. The want to buy books to help us has been my idea...he says he's not a reader...and that books don't help.

Money isn't an issue as my company provides 5 free counseling sessions a year and we have medical insurance to cover the rest.

Would me reading these helpful books that Mr. Harley and many other great authors have put out be helpful if I read them alone?

I know I can't change anyone but myself, but it sucks when you are the only one in a marriage willing to give 110% to make it better than what you had.

Again, thank you for reading my book of history and taking the time to share your thoughts.

I've very grateful.

Wow, Struggling,

Quite a story. Welcome to MB. I wish you all the luck. I'm so not an expert and am leery to offer suggestions. But I find a lot of similarities in the need for attention from the H and him not providing them.

I also understand the lack of being a grown up. For me, I got sober in 87 and instead of working a recovering program, lived in a dry drunk for many years. The behaviors of addiction was still there, just not the drug. In the end this has destroyed my M, because my WH continues to live in a dry drunk along with living life with absolutely no responsibility.

I enabled his behavior for many years because I was doing the same crap by not growing up. Larry is right, your children deserve better. So for me, IMHO, you need to really start to work on yourself and fix that hole that lives inside of you. I am learning that understanding who I am, makes it clear to communicate what I need and helps to put into perspective what I am willing to offer, tolerate and not have. It's not up to your H to figure that out, it's up to you to know and let him know. Unfotunately you can't make him feel or do anything. But you can Plan A him - with you having no expectations. Have you read up on that?

I believe when two people truly want to make their M work, they can as long as they are willing to do the HARD work. I hope that's true in your case. I can't imagine it will be easy or even worth it, but you have to decide for yourself.

There are a lot of vets on here who can help you turn this around IF you are willing to look at your behaviors and actions and do the work to change yourself.

First of all, God and Mom made him, it is very unlikely you will be able to change him. But you can change yourself.

I am going to tell you what you probably know already but need to hear from someone else.

One of the current crop of comics on tour is fond of saying, "You can't fix stupid." This is a true statement. But you can fix ignorant. The simple process is education, a part of being a grownup that is outside the formal education we all gave varying levels of attention to as we supposedly grew up.

The other thing you can't fix is willful ignorance. You can't learn what you need to know watching Sunday football and drinking beer (as examples), those are recreation events. You can't learn from your buddies, who are typically as ignorant as yourself about being a grownup. You can't learn from your work, which is usually specialized and addresses nothing about raising kids and being a better person.

You can't learn calling it psychobabble. You can't learn rejecting any life lesson outside of your own limited experience and you surely can't learn by repeating the mistakes of your own parents or peers or failing to take the early lessons of your own life into account; repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting a different result isn't just willful ignorance, it is stupid.

You can't grow up living in the past.

Painted you (or more likely your husband) in a corner, didn't I.

I did it on purpose. See, men and women are different in many ways, but one of the most important is that women internalize and men externalize. When faced with adversity, men try to change their environment and women try to change themselves. This is a generality of course, which brings me to the point; you look like you are ready to change yourself while at the same time expecting your husband to do likewise so he can save you.

Since your husband is NOT a reader (readers should NOT marry a person who doesn't read), that limits his ability to become a grownup unless he is lucky. You, on the other hand, are in a position to make your own luck through changing yourself in a process of education. And by changing yourself, you provide an example for him. Oh, that might not work out for him, BUT IT WILL WORK FOR YOU! And as a changed person, you will be better equipped to do what you have to do to make the best of your life as you can and that means making the best of life for your kids.

See, once you have kids, their needs must come first if you are a grownup. Kids don't raise themselves. The supposed grownups who had them, raise them, either effectively as possible, or with the same fumbling disfunction as they themselves were often raised. Raising kids means more than dressing them, feeding them and trying to get them not to cause problems. Raising kids also means setting an example of how grownups are supposed to live their lives. You can't do that unless you are a grownup.

Church is a place you can learn if you go to a church that is devoted to learning; not all are.

For relationships, I recommend His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley, Jr, the sponsor of this web site. For marriage coaching, I recommend the Harley group, which currently includes Steve and Jennifer Harley.

I am not going to get into the process of accepting responsibility and becoming an adult. You are well on that way by accepting that you have to do it. Whoever you choose to seek coaching from (Notice I said coaching, not counseling) will have their own approach, so I leave it up to the pros.

And I have left out the part about making a life with your husband. That may or may not be. But as you come to terms with who you are and what you have to do for yourself and your kids, what to do about hubby will become more clear to you based on what you know and who you are rather than for what you wish.

I started this with the observation you likely knew what I was going to say but needs saying. Now I have done that and I wish you the best of the luck you make for yourself.

Larry

I have a problem with doing things repeatedly to hurt my husband by hiding things...let me give examples.

Seeking other men for attention and advice while hiding it from my husband until I'm caught.

Speaking to an ex via e-mail when I was depressed and laid up in the bed with a difficult pregnancy...hid it from my husband and he found it.

Small things with money issues...I handle the bills...Although it's been awhile since this has happened...I would pay only the minimums to credit cards when my husband asked me to pay a certain amount. I didn't do it and hid that from him. I felt more secure having it in our checking or savings.

Husband got laid off on 2/14/08 and began working 4/7/08. Before he began working his current job he tried a place for 3 days while waiting for his last job offer. Well when I went to apply online for his last unemployment check, I filled it out as if he didn't work at that one job and claimed all two weeks as unemployed. Didn't tell my husband and he found out when he got a letter from them. Although it all worked out and no monies are owed and no penalties were charged...I did it behind his back.

He's tired of surprises and his one big issue he has is he can't trust me.

I obviously have a problem...because I don't do what I do with ill intentions.

What problem do I have? How do I seek help for it? Is there a name for what I keep doing?

The name is acting like a teenager. You hide, lie by ommission, blame shift; you know the routine. Like I said, be a grownup, your kids need you that way. And the way you do it is by owning your own stuff. You admit who you are to yourself and stop those behaviors which cause problems.

Or not, your choice. In other words, make better choices. Following your emotions around like a puppy dog makes you, what? And how is that working for you, great or what?

You know your problems. Now fix them already.

Larry

You are to be congratulated in that you recognize your tendency to cheat. However, I suggest you leave your H. You seem to have a great need to cheat and this will not go away overnight.



You probably have a personality disorder and the need for male attention is so high that it overrides EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING (read your own words).


SO you let Greg, the child molester talk you into getting money from your H and you go along with it. As I said, the best gift you could give your H is to walk away from him.

In the mean time you need to live on your own with no dependency on men.



As I said, you have an incontrollable need for this activity and I believe it has nothing to do with H.

Seek treatment, live alone with no men in your life, learn how to love yourself, do not bring more kids to this world. I suspect you have Histrionic Personality disorder and should seek medical attention.

It's amazing how you can come to the conclusion that I should leave my husband because I have a GREAT need to cheat. I've known my husband and have had a relationship with him for 16 years and cheated on him during a time of depression/immaturity/lack of attention/selfishness in a 3 month span.

So out of 192+ months I failed during 3 of them. This was early in our marriage and when I was very young and selfish...before kids, etc...when being given a 2nd chance...I swore to my husband I would never cheat on him again. I have held true to that promise for the past 8 years.

I believe I have boundry issues...but your evaluation of me is completely off base.

You state that deceiving your H is in the past. But then you said:





Last week you were at it again








You may be one of those that feel cheating equals intercourse. However, the type of intimacy you described is cheating and that is why your H is hurt. It is clear you are not out of the woods regarding your proclivity to cheat. You can deny till the cows come home, but your own writing tells a different story.

Nevertheless I applaud the fact that you recognize where you are and what you are doing.

Your relationship to the 400 lbs child molester is disturbing. I know quite well this is in the past, but it certainly showed a tendency to neglect truly bizarre behavior so you can have attention from a man. Highly inappropriate relationships of that type are common with histrionic personality disorder and I suggest you see someone for a check up.

I also applaud your high motivation to fix the marriage, but understand that you married at a very early age when the two of you were kids. That is why Larry mentions the issue of acting like a teenager.

Good call Stanley. Hope she reads it even if no reply, if you get my full meaning.

Larry

Larry:

I know quite well it sounds like I am using a huge 2x4, but sometimes a couple of blunt remarks without sugarcoating are healthy for the recipient.

I was concerned about the fact that she went to match.com and specifically mentioned she was looking for a male. Two sentences down she said she finally found a male in MySpace.com. It seems to me there was a purpose to her Internet search.

I agree that the poster needs some counseling.

There will always be times of immaturity/depression, lack of atteniton, selfishness in a marriage. The problem I see is that she looks for a man to solve these problems, and it seems like just about any man will do. Better to work on her issues and find healthy ways of dealing with life's problems.

Hope she will get strong and content and not look to outside sources for her happiness.

I am here for the long haul and although some of what you might say is going to hurt...I know I have a problem and that isn't always easy to hear.

My husband and I have our first marriage counseling appointment on Thursday. Although she will probably pick up on what all of you have, I'm hopeful if she isn't able to help me during the marriage counseling...she can see me one on one.

I do agree that I do not have a healthy way or outlet to seek when I feel helpless. Several weeks ago my husband threw his hands in the air and said he gives up. After 2.5 years of doing everything in my power to help our marriage (intimacy, communication, lack of emotional needs being met, love busters, etc.) He would only give 40% and then just stop. For years he has told me that he is past everything I've done, that he has no issue with trust, that he doesn't need to talk to anyone, that his perfectly fine. We both had no idea he still had trust issues.

I've come to him many times in at least the past 6 months to tell him that the lack of all of the above was really starting to affect me...I was feeling unloved, unattractive, like his roommate. Many times these few talks would turn into arguments. He is not good with conflict...he deflects, takes no responsiblity, and everything ends up being my fault. Something I did or didn't do is always the reason he did or didn't do something. He'd either be too tired, or too busy, or had a sports game on, or playing hours on the computer.

We talk great via e-mail though...many things get fixed. Except over the past many months I'd end up feeling worse talking to him then not at all. He'd make me feel pretty crappy about myself. I began holding back talking about what bothered or hurt...tired of hearing everything is my fault...or being rejected a conversation for one of the reasons above.

What would be a healthy outlet to seek when you feel that helpless and pushed away? Please keep in mind that even he didn't know he still had trust issues until this weekend.

Again, I'm here to seek help and once and for all learn a different way of handling things.

You were right when I equate cheating with anything physical. Although I do find affairs can be emotional as well. My husband had an emotional affair in late 2005. My chatting with the two males mentioned in my history...I don't see as cheating. I do though find me hiding it from him wrong. That's where I betrayed the trust of my husband.

NOW I see that this is an unhealthy habit...although it seems to only occur every three years...it happens. It's as if I have boundry issues along with everything else?

Stick with us, and also get some counseling. It makes me sad to see someone who has their whole life tied up with how some man treats her.

My husband cheated, left me, spent our life savings and we divorced. It hit me hard at first, but I've managed to salvage a very good life.

A counselor will help you deal with the insecurity and sadness and neediness. You can learn how to have a wonderful life and be happy, no matter what is going on in your marriage. You don't need a man to do this for you. When you depend on others for your happiness, you will always be disappointed.