There is a big difference between an 11 yo child and a child leaving home (18+). The younger the child, the more your life revolves around them. I don't know of many parents of toddlers whose life does not revolve around the kids. It is a process of slowly disengaging over the years, but I disagree with the notion of disengaging from a young child under the excuse of "evenutally they will have to leave home". Having a child includes the responsibility of providing for them, both physically and emotionally.

AGG

I think the daughter hates the fact that her father does not spend ANY time with her, not that he does not spend ALL his time with her. Big difference.



"Controlled"? How about "he is not going to give a rat's [censored] about her feelings", that sounds more like the situation at hand.

AGG

AGG

You have a good grasp on what we are dealing with!!

Thank you!!


Ronda

There is only one thing - aside from food and shelter - that all children need - unconditional love. Everything else will work out, as long as kids don't think they're unwanted, a burden, full of mistakes, ruining their parents' lives...Kids can survive poverty, moving 20 times, making homemade Christmas presents, sharing a popsicle, helping siblings out, making dinner...it doesn't matter at all, as long as they know the adults in their lives want them!

thank you Cat!! We have been through some of that you listed and it only made us closer!!

Ronda

AGG,



While yes, that is true, however an 11 yr old is not a toddler. When my daughter's were 11, they were sleeping over their friends houses and having friends stay overnight..and they didn't want mom hanging around. Sure they wanted to know I was in the other room if there was an emergency, but my life didn't revolve around that, it was merely a part of daily life.

What would you describe as disengaging from your child?

Why do you assume I'm saying not to provide those things?

AGG,



Hmm, he's not spending ANY time with her at all? None? Or just not the way she wants?

My daughters want their dad to check into a 5 star hotel and stay in town for the weekend, so they can spend time with him, instead of going to his house, which is a 3 1/2 hour drive away and is BORING, and there is nothing to do, and they don't know anybody. Does he take their feelings into consideration? Certainly, he does, but just because they want to stay in a 5 star hotel doesn't mean it's going to happen just so they will spend time with him.



I don't know if he's taken how she feels into consideration or not, there are many times I take my kids feelings into consideration, and still make a decision that goes against how they they feel.

think about this, do you always give into your kids feelings? Or do you take their feelings into account when you make decisions, and then make what you feel is the best decision even when it goes against what they are feeling or what they want?

consider--If your kids only wanted to spend time with their mom at your home or at the mall and not at her home, would you insist it be that way? Would you tell your kids they didn't have to see their mom because she does not want to come over to your house to spend time with them? How would you respond to that?

Granted that is not the situation going on for alluring's daughter at the moment. Right now, she goes to her dad's house, she spends some time with her dad (even if not alone, like she wants) she does get time with him. Does she ride with him over to his house? Or does her mom take her?

How often did her dad take one on one time with her when he was married to her mom? Did he take her out for ice cream or anything just the two of them? If so, maybe she could let him know she misses that, and she could ask him if they could go out for ice cream like they did before.

I did not bring up the "disengaging" term, so I am not going to define it. But, what I pick up from your definition of disengagement is something like this - a girl asking her dad to go (fill in the blank - fishing, shopping, bowling), just to spend some one on one time together, and the father saying "I won't let you control me". You may call it disengagement, I call it poor parenting.

Nowhere do I see Rhonda say that her daughter's gripe is that the dad is not buying her a Bimmer, not taking her to a 5 star hotel vacation, or not building her a room. I don't know why you are using such extreme examples, as I see no basis for them in Rhonda's posts.

I think all the kid wants is for her dad to spend some time with her, without the OW who destroyed her family. Maybe it's too much to ask for in your book, but not in mine. I am one of those parents who believes that kids grow up too fast, and you can never go wrong by giving them some one on one attention, akin to Harley's Undivided Attention rule. All parenting books I read strongly urge dads to spend as much undivided time with their daughters as possible.

AGG

To me it's the same thing. A father who refuses to occasionally spend alone time with his daughter in a way that she wants is not much of a father. I am not talking about 5 star hotel rooms, I am talking about going out and kicking the soccer ball. I am not going to speak for Ronda, but I am getting the impression that her daughter does not get even that.



I don't think Ronda's daughter wants her feeling to always be considered and followed... But is it too much to ask that they be followed sometimes?


And this is the model of good parenting? Getting to ride in the car with her dad and the OW?

AGG

I'll go one step further. Every book and article I have read shows that adolescent girls whose fathers do not pour affection and interest on their daughter - an issue entirely different from spoiling her - have exceedingly increased risk for teenage sex, drugs, self-hurt, promiscuousness, and just about any other self-destructive tendency you can think of. It's a subtle thing, but girls learn their place in life according to their father's belief in, and respect for, them. I'm walking proof of those descriptions.

No ALONE time


He's not going to "be told by an 11 year old how to live his life "...referring to the up coming nuptials to the OW who tore our lives apart along with her father.

That to me is NOT taken her feelings into consideration!


He picks her up and drops her off...and the OW house is all of MAYBE 10 minutes from my house.


Occasionally he would take her out one on one but not much because we were a family.

Ronda

We've read the same books, it appears . And as I parent my teenage girl, I can vouch for how she blossoms when we chat about stuff, life, or whatever else she wants to chatter about.... There is nothing overindulgent in helping a teenage girl feel special, loved, protected, and worthy of someone's attention. If others feel they serve their daughters better by teaching them to "suck it up" or "grow up and disengage", that is their choice, but I am not one of those people.

AGG

You got it going on AGG! This is the stuff good Dad's are made of....

'Scuse the the thread jack Allurin

Dictated by our children? I'm definitely having trouble with the word selected, and strongly disagree.

a. To prescribe with authority; impose
b. To control or command

A child's safety, of course, is of our utmost concern.


Although I understand the sentiment, I believe our job as parents is to raise our children to be responsible, caring adults. That doesn't mean always giving children whatever they want, letting them dictate our lives - they are CHILDREN.

What did your D type on MySpace that proved objectionable to her dad?

An 11-year-old child should not have a MySpace account. It is a TOS violation - the minimum age is 14. This is already a message to your child that it's okay to break rules. And, depending on what was typed, that it's okay to be disrespectful to her father?


I agree, everyone has their own feelings and thoughts. However, I firmly believe children should be taught to express their emotions respectfully. To everyone, but particularly their parents. A good parent guides and corrects inappropriate behavior.

I really would like to know what you are allowing her to type on MySpace...where she shouldn't be anyway...about her father that he found objectionable and you did not?

I'm sure we all agree with that. But to some extent we are talking past each other.

You and TR seem to be saying that "the children should not always get whatever they want just because they throw a tantrum". Peace. No one is arguing against that. I am sure we all agree that if a child stomps her foot and says "Daddy, I want a new pony", it is not the parent's duty to run out and get a new pony.

But, what I believe that Alluring (and I) are saying is that it is important for the child to always feel heard, validated, and relevant. And that at least sometimes to get what she wants, if it is not unreasonable. Don't we all agree with that either?

If so, this becomes a matter of what is "reasonable", and that is probably a matter of individual parent's beliefs. But clearly we are not talking about letting the child dictate the parent's life - just to not be treated as a renter in her own house or family. I think that is how Alluring's daughter feels. I don't see her asking her dad to always do whatever she wants - just to sometimes show that he cares about her as a human being, and does not just view her as a short person who is a nuisance to his newly chosen life, one that the daughter had no vote or much consideration in creating.

AGG

That's okay DW...I happen to agree with you!!

Laura,

Yes dictated...from the time of conception when we had to watch what we ate/drank in order to give birth to healthy children to now when we as parents are responsible to see that their basic needs are met and that they are happy, healthy (mentally and physically) little people.

Our daughter posted on myspace that she does not want her father to marry the OW and that she wishes the OW would "go away". I see nothing wrong with it as its her myspace where she is free to express herself and her feelings. He just happens to not agree with her feelings.

I'm not going to argue about myspace. Everyone has their own opinions about it. We happen to use to to keep in contact with close friends, former classmates and family members across the country and I have no problem whatsoever with either of my children having an account. A. I have their passwords and check them daily if able and delete things as needed and B. My 11 year old isn't on her myspace unless I am home.

I created the account with my information and initially set it up for her and have also taught both my kids how to make the html changes for the background and other little tricks.

AGG,

You've hit the nail on the head once again!!! Thank you for reassuring to me that it's not just me that sees what my EX is doing to our daughter is just plain wrong on every level.

I wish the EX would come here and get an MB edumacation. I myself have learned so much in the last 3 years!!

It should be called Marriage and Parenting Builders...LOL

Ronda

That word "dictated" just doesn't work for me. Embracing responsibility, sure. But I didn't feel "dictated" to do things for my pregnancies.


Ronda - Why was it okay that there wasn't much one-on-one time for them when you were a family but it isn't okay now? Because you're not the same nucleus family now? Because her father is making a new family and wants her to be a part of that family too?

I think it's sad there wasn't one-on-one time all along that could be considered more than "not much." Some men just don't seem to understand how important it is, that one-on-one time with their children. After divorce, many men aren't going to be much better at it either. Some GET it, and step up to the plate...but so many don't. Those that don't, add a visitation schedule that is basically 4 days a month, and there's not even much time for that bonding. However you tried to explain it to your Ex, he's apparently taken it as you suggesting that your D dictate to him how things are going to be. Much like I'm reading you. I do think it's word choices that are creating the barriers, but anyway, I hope you find a way to talk to him about time with your D.


Right. She has you all the other days of the month. And you're not planning on getting remarried at this point, right? If you were, you might be up against the same upsets from your D.

Are there any school functions that dad might share with her in addition to his regular visitation? Perhaps you could encourage that....


I would imagine your Ex feels the "go away" is disrespectful, and he asked that it be changed. You have refused to honor that request? While I think it is absolutely fine for your D to write anything and everything in a diary, I can see how your Ex might want that reworded.


You delete what you feel is inappropriate. Why is her father's request of a rewording any different? By the way, what could you be deleting since you are allowing your D to freely express herself and her feelings? Seems like something's hypocritical there....


It isn't just opinion, it's Terms of Service. #1 below shows the age requirement.


1. Eligibility. Use of the MySpace Services and registration to be a Member for the MySpace Services (“Membership”) is void where prohibited. By using the MySpace Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; (b) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; (c) you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the MySpace Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 14 years of age, if we believe that you are under 18 years of age and you represent yourself as 18 or older, or if we believe you are over 18 and represent yourself as under 18.



You created an account for your D by misrepresenting her age (or allowing her to). You're obviously cool with that because you did it, but I'm not. I see this as something that has snowballing power. With MySpace - you will not always be monitoring her: sleepovers, time over at her dad's house. You won't always be there. What if this has even greater ramifications in the future? What if when she's 17, you get a call about underage drinking? What??? How could that have happened??? Well, mom, I just got a fake i.d. that SAID I was old enough. It's okay to bend the rules, right?

Just discussion. Take what helps and leave the rest. Those are some things I don't agree with. It's not that I think your Ex's situation is great - it isn't. These things aren't even on the radar compared to OW/fiance having an Ex-BF busted for drugs. I'd be blocking visitation because I was afraid there were drugs anywhere near my D! We MBers know your Ex isn't going about this new relationship in a way that promises longevity...but you can't control his choices. You can, however, find a respectful way to represent your D's interests, and show HER respectful ways to speak for herself, that may be more fruitful than how it's been going so far.

Hi AGG.

Because he was living in our home which would lead to more one on one time (watching the children) while I worked or was busy with something else. Just like it is in any normal family setting.


Of course he sees it as me prodding her on what to say or feel as I'm the evil ex-wife that he left for the OW. Apparently he thinks I should still care what he does? I only care because he's crushing our daughters spirit. She is my main concern...certainly not him and the OW.


Absolutely I refused..our daughter has every right to say what she feels. It's okay that he's disrespecting our daughter? He's the parent!!


A. I don't feel she did anything inappropriate other than voicing her feelings. B. I didn't say I deleted anything from HER account so why do you ASSUME I meant hers? If you had read my previous posts I have already said that I have deleted things/people on my SONS account that were inappropriate. (I just cleaned house again tonight on some of his "friends" that I didn't feel needed to be on there)


As I said before I will not turn this into a fight over myspace. This thread was started to get suggestions for the strained relationship of my EX and our daughter.

Thanks Laura for your opinions.

Uhm, because you were talking about plural accounts....you said "I have their passwords and check them daily if able and delete things as needed." I "assumed" you were deleting on BOTH, actually. Okay, so you delete on your S's, and your Ex isn't allowed to request rewording on your D's. That isn't hypocritical?


Huh? How is he disrespecting your D? Are you talking about the MySpace post?


I suggested a couple of things. Did you see them?

AGG;


With all due respect, yes you did..


And while I agree a parent should provide for both physical and emotional needs, I think we may disagree on how the emotional needs are met..from a parent to a child.


Because as a mom and step-mom, I am watching both of those going on first hand in my own life with my kids and step-kids..so to me, they are not extreme.

My ex-h wanted to be the "disney land dad" the one who gave them whatever they wanted, when they wanted it..then he remarried..and his wife didn't agree with give the kids whatever they wanted to make them happy because your not around (nor did I, but hey, if he wanted to buy them something or take them somewhere fun, who was I to tell him not to??) just as my husbands ex-w wanted to be the disney land mom, but then dad wasn't being the "disney land dad", and she has done the same thing my ex-h has done, given into whatever the kids wanted, when they wanted, more specifically she's done that with their daughter, and now she has a way of trying to throw on the guilt and manipulation about the divorce whenever she wants something. her mom takes the bait, her dad doesn't.

You see, when my husband and ex were married he took the bait, now he doesn't, and it makes them mad. His ex left him for another man, why should he feel guilty that she filed for divorce and he moved out? SD thinks she should have her own bedroom here, like she does at her mom's and not have to share a room, and if he can't do that then he needs to go to her house to see her..and tells her dad, "I'm not coming over if I can't have my own room" or "I won't see you if you don't come over here with us" he says..well, then I guess I don't see you..they get mad, but he's not going to give into manipulation just to see her.


And while I agree she should have some one-on-one time with her dad, she shouldn't necessarily expect him not to marry someone, just because she is mad or doesn't like her. As has already been stated, she's only at his home 4 days a month, he's the one there everyday and will have to live with the woman.

And while yes, I understand why she doesn't like the woman, in that she played a part in her family falling apart, that doesn't give the child the right to try and 'control' or 'dictate' or guilt or manipulate what the parent does.

Like I said, I've watched as my sd has done this with her mom, and try to do this with her dad..her mom gives in, her mom allows her to dictate her life.

Let me give you an example, my sd was sick and needed to go to the doctors, her mom was at work and couldn't take off, she called here asking if we could take her..sure no problem..we took her..two days later sd and ss had doctors appts, again, her mom asked if we could take them, she didn't want to take off work (they've been firing people) there are two of us, and the appointments were close in timing at different locations. we agreed, however SS got sick, so mom took off work, took SS to the doctor, we asked if she wanted us to go ahead and take SD so she didn't have to try and be in two places at once..she agreed..SD didn't like that..mom could take off and take SS to the doctor..by golly she could take her too..mom called here angry at us, because sd was throwing a fit, and didn't WANT us to take her..she WANTED MOM to take her..mom gave into SDs demands, mom had to canx the appointment because she couldn't make it on time..so she had to take yet another day off work to go back to the doctor. that is a child dictating and controlling a parents life..my child, would have had their happy behind in their dad's car going with him to the doctor.

h is setting boundaries, on what he will and will not do, even though he's not seeing his daughter, that hurts. but mom is encouraging her to stand firm in her demands..because he's the dad and needs to take her feelings into account.

Not only is my h setting boundaries, he's respecting his daughter's choice not to come over, he's not forcing her to come over. he could, he could use the court order saying she has to spend two weekends a month over here and one day during the week, and every other holiday, and so many weeks during the summer, but he's not. While at the same time he is expecting her to respect his, not going to their house and hang out as if they are still some big happy family.

All I am saying is, when you take a person's feelings into account, be it an adult or a child, doesn't mean you give into what they want.