Fiori,
Haven't read all of the new stuff. H and I just had the June Cleaver conversation this weekend. In the middle of our partially redone kitchen. Weird. So I'll write more later. I'm putting an email I use for work in here since it isn't confidential anyway. Let me know when you get it and I'll delete this later.
thanks-Turk

delete away...and check your email.

bump

bumped for Danilocomo11

Sorry...new here, but what does the bump stuff mean? Or, is this a private joke?

Hi, Fiori,

Nope, not a joke. Dani is posting on heartbreak's thread. I told her about this thread and the addiction one. She wanted to know where they were so I "bumped" them so she wouldn't have to go looking

I'm not sure if anyone is out there paying attention to my stuff anymore, but I've reached a bit of an impass and I'm powerless to know how to proceed.
H still works at the same company that his EA works at. Supposedly there is NO contact of any sort, but I do realize the mere fact that they share a zip code is contact in any other book. So, I am very much trying to educate him on what contact means. Most days he gets this and is very willing to listen and find a new job. He is very, very frustrated with his job aside from the bs that he/she brought here, so finding a new one is welcome to both of us. But, it's not happening fast enough for me. He hasn't dared to ask me to be patient, but I know him well enough to know that's what he is thinking. He's got 20 years at this company and finds it crippling to make the change. Lots of overload with responsibility blah, blah, blah...He says to me "what do you suggest I do?" I reply "find a new job and show me that you are committed to repairing the damage created by your EA". He then says "yes, I understand that, and I'm working on it but it's not that simple...you don't just snap your fingers and a new job at this level appears." He is not willing to change to a lower paying job because of the kids and schooling and many financial responsibilities. We both realize the necessity of preserving our marriage over any $$ amount, but the leap is frightening.
So, here's where I stand -- ANGRY!!! It has posessed me! I feel like a volcano ready to errupt!!! I feel I have no control over my anger right now and I'm powerless to figure out what to do with it. Is this normal? Are there stages you go through and this is simply the next stage? It shocks me how angry I am with him. Actually, it shocks him to. But, it creeps up on me and then I don't know how to turn it off once it takes over. Sometimes I feel posessed by the situation. Someone...tell me if this is normal.

Hi there. I'm still here...glad to see you are alive and kicking (maybe kicking too much ;))

I think it makes sense to go through an anger phase. I have found myself feeling EXTREME anger toward him over things that would normally have not riled me as much. I am working really hard to avoid venting it on him.

You know that when you tell him that he needs to show you that he is committed to repairing the damage created by his EA, you're kind of love busting him. I know HE chose to do the EA...but you need to be careful not to "throw it in his face." It really doesn't help.

I've found that I'm in a similar spot. I decided that I needed to look at all of the positive and try to encourage him with those things. Your H is doing LOTS to show you his commitment to the M. Try to focus on those things. I found that when I do that, not only does he feel more compelled to do MORE to meet my needs, but I FEEL better in general because I am looking at the good stuff.

I think your anger is completely normal, but I think if you aren't careful, it can backfire on you in your recovery. It doesn't seem fair, but venting anger and frustration on him will likely make him LESS interested in working on recovery. Kind of the "more flies with honey than vinegar" theory.

Call me sometime.

HTM

I totally agree with you. But, the problem is that I feel powerless to change my state of mind. That's the part that makes me nuts.

I don't know that you can just decide to change your mind and have it happen. My H would disagree with me. He feels that we make choices about what we feel.

But...I do think that we can change our behavior. I'm not really a behavioralist by philosophy, but I think that there is some truth in the idea that if we change our actions, our feelings will follow.

Maybe what you can do is FOCUS on the good stuff. Make a conscious decision to say ONLY positive, encouraging things to H. You may still FEEL the anger, but just don't mention it. Vent somewhere else. Here. To me. In your journal. If you have a new concern...like H says he wants to work late and you don't want him to, then address the problem in as factual a way and try to do the "sandwich" technique...tell him something great that he's doing, let him know that you are uncomfortable with him doing this, then give him words of encouragement:

Example:

Honey, I love the way that you have been spending so much quality time with me. I am just uncomfortable with you staying late at work right now. You are doing such an awesome job working with me to recover our marriage, I know we will get through it.

It may sound dorky, but I think it works. I have been trying to do this for the past few days and while H has had some things that I haven't LOVED, I have really tried to bolster him with encouragement and he seems so much more excited about doing things with/for me now.

You make valid points...I'll try.
Here's another question, though. Isn't he lovebusting by being at the job where she still is? Shouldn't this be a two way street? Shouldn't he be jumping through hoops to see to it that I'm confident?
I hate this feeling. I know there is some horomonal part in play here, but the feelings are real (40%). I believe it's H responsibility to nurture me.
Well, we'll chat again tomorrow. I've missed talking with you. Last night H and I were up til 3 discussing stuff. That's very counterproductive for me because I generally go to bed early. He's on the couch asleep while our son watches baseball and I'm up for a bubble bath and then bed! Whoo hoo...what an exciting household.
Til tomorrow

Hi fiori,
Couple of things:
Your D day was in Oct 2007. That is less than a year ago. My H had an EA and it was small and short-lived compared to what many here have had to endure. However, I was still on that roller coaster at the time frame you are currently in. I would have strong feelings of anger--they were probably primarily a feeling of panic that I read and interpreted as "anger". How are you expressing this anger to your H? I know it is hard. I remember your story and it is hard to deal with that sort of emotional betrayal along with the gas lighting that went on. That whole deal of having an OW in your home but being assured that she is not an OW is strange and the effects are long lasting. I know that the whole deal kept bouncing around in my head almost like I was in one of those pin ball machines: "He did not really care about her like he cares about me--bounce bounce "but he said things to her that he would normally only say to me"--bounce bounce--"but he never really wanted anything out of their relationship"--bounce bounce--"but he lied to me and she must have known he was keeping secrets from me"--bounce bounce.
Second thing:
He is still working at the same location where she works! Of course this is going to be hard for you! Triggers abound. Your roller coaster/pin ball machine ride continues. I know that the answer is for him to get out of that place of work. Yet, the two of you are not willing to pay the price that would be paid-lower wages, a financial burden for you and the children. These are choices and there are losses and benefits that you are weighing.
I don't have an answer to your situation. I know it is easy to sit here and tell you that he must leave that job. But that is a decision the two of you must make. How are the two of you doing with spending 15 hours together? Is he stepping up to the plate in a big way to make you feel secure and cherished? Are you able to accept his actions to meet your emotional needs? Is he making you feel secure around "no contact"? Has he found a person within the company to whom he is held accountable for "no contact"? Are you able to throw yourself in to making a healthy relationship with him? I still struggle and continue through stages of recovery. I wish you and yours comfort as you go through these struggles. Remember, take joy from your life and the events in your life that are joyful. I am sure there are many. Do not let the blot of these EA events color the joy that you share.

fiori,
Do you think it would help the two of you if you re-interpreted your feelings of anger as feelings of Panic? Yes, he should be stepping up and assuring you and making you feel safe. Maybe it would be easier for him to do that if he was stepping up and helping you through feelings of panic rather than feelings interpreted as anger.
Is he looking for another job?--actively? Also, are there other ways that he could be making you feel safe? Since affairs are addictive and he is still in the same work site, I think it would be important that he has someone at work that is able to hold him accountable for no contact. If I remember correctly, people at his work site are aware of the EA, so he should be able to recruit an accountablity partner at work. Would that help you? I know that this is not really a marriage builder idea, but I am just trying to be creative for your situation.

Lake,
Panic vs. Anger? I think you may be right. No matter what conflict comes into our lives my brain always reverts back to the EA and somehow ties them together. I am panic struck whenver he is 10 minutes late or a call comes in late at night...I do have the password on his phone and can check the messeges...I just don't do it as I think it may be counterproductive at this point.
As for looking for a job and his intensity -- that varies. Some days he's completely gung ho and others he's blah. There have been a couple of days that he's called me and asked that I do an intense search online as he struggles finding the privacy at work. So, I do and then send him the links. He is then in the drivers seat and has to take the intitiative and send the resume. Do I nag him gently about it? I know he's paralyzed by the prospect of change, so can I nudge him by talking about it? I was not sure if that would be considered love busting. He does get a little defensive when we chat about it. I know he's probably a bit resentful as I took away his new toy. We've discussed this aspect of recovery and he simply says that's not the case. I get a lot of 'trust me...this will never happen again. I cannot beleive I was stupid enough to get caught up this time and now i know how vulnerable someone can be...this will NEVER take hold of me again." That's good, but can it be trusted? Probably not while she's in the buiding.
As for a word 'buddy' that's not H's style. He's been there 20 years but has always kept the work friendships to a minimum. He's always been more about being home with me and the boys. But, the two bosses do have the complaints on record and if she tried again to speak with him he can always inform her boss to cut it off immediately. I do believe he means business, but I also think there may be feelings of 'what if?' floating around because she's still there.
So, here I sit. Last night we decided to 'table' any further discussion and just sit and watch the baseball game together. We are horrible at 'discussing' as it usually leads to an argument. So, baseball instead! And, yes, we are able to spend the time together, but we really always did. That's the weird part, there was no tragic event that seperated us or no extended period of time apart that made us vulnerable to this attack. Hopefully this is a better day.

Because H is the primary source of income, do I have the right to insist that he change jobs? Is this being too forceful?

fiori, are you seeing an IC? It sounds like you can really use one about now.

As for the job, I've been trying to help my H find a job for 4 years now. He has incredible credentials, and we can barely get through the computerized filters these days; I've sent out over 500 resumes. All I'm saying is, it's not that easy these days. Have you looked for a headhunter in your area? If he's at the upper level, I'd really recommend it, as those types of jobs usually get handled through professional companies. Does he make over $100K? If so, there's a great website called www.theladders.com that only posts jobs for the more experienced people.

Cat,
Yes, you're right. I could use a little IC right now. I went in the very beginning but the lady kept trying to do this program where I tapped my finger and the memories went away. Some new program that apparently is very helpful. At that time, as the situation was very new, I felt that lack of memory would be bad. I needed to feel the hurt and experience the pain in order to muster up the strength to fight for my marriage. I'm sure that sounds a little odd, but I did not want anything to potentially remove my spirit or fight. Now, it may be a good idea as the memories are clouding my judgement. But, I'm not one for self-help guru type stuff. And, I'm real bad at asking others for help -- that's why this is so good for me because I don't feel like I'm 'bothering' anyone!

As for the job, yes, he works at a level over $100K. There is a headhunter that he uses for employ others and the guy keeps asking him to golf or go to a game. I told H he should go and then inconspicuously ask him about himself. I believe the headhunter would love to shop my H around but is unable to actually approach this when they are doing other business. I'll suggest it again. Thanks for the support.

Oh, and by the way...
The reason for no IC now is that as of January H changed our insurance from Personal Choice to a competetor. They swore that everything was identical. He (H) is a procrasinator and waited til the last minute. Then, he was held under the gun and had to choose. Because the bi weekly premium was several $$ cheaper coming out of his pay, he foolishly made the choice. Soooo, no insurance for this until Jan. of next year when we switch back. I'd rather not pay the $100 per session as that is what it will cost on the East Coast.

I don't think it's wrong of you to insist on a new job, but the WAY you insist is important. Nagging is only going to make him unhappy. You need to talk with him and then just know that he remembers how important it is to you.

If you have a hard time talking with H without it becoming an argument, maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to find a MC. We are totally broke, but we found a guy willing to work on a sliding scale. He sometimes just helps to mediate the conversation.

Also, lots of people here have suggested that there be a set time each week to discuss the A and that the rest of the time, there is NO discussion about it. That way, you both get to talk about things that may be hard to handle, but you aren't mired in it all week.

I would suggest you look at some of the information on negotiating and suggestions for discussions. Some of the things that our MC has suggested is "mirroring" each others comments so that we are sure we understand, using LOTS of "I statements" so we don't blame, trying to "sandwich" criticisms with compliments...lots of little things but they seem to help. We also have a catch phrase that we use when one of us is overloaded and needs to take a break...our phrase is "runaway train." It means "I need to stop talking/listening for awhile. I'm not ignoring you and I will come back to this later." It helps a lot.

Call me. I've lost your number. We can chat.

HTM

You know what? I just had a really crappy realization!!!
That little sh#$ courted that dumpy poc the same way he did me. Am I stupid or is he simply a poorly named donkey?