Really? Do I praise him like a child who learned to use the potty? It seems weird. His travel is not really a trigger for me, it's the late night conversations on the phone with OW. I knew if he was away the filter would be gone and she may take it upon herself to 'check in'. H says she has moved on. He says he has no concrete evidence to this except that she keeps her distance and is respecting his wishes to not speak to him. I dont' know...I still really want him at another job regardless of whether or not she's all of a sudden an upstanging gal! Not likely! But, I have to be careful not to let this take over. Last night I told him that I would take it one week at a time. I will not ask him daily (like I do) if there was any contact or communication, visual or verbal or email, today. I will not ask him tomorrow or the next day. I will rely on him to tell me! I told him that I would take no news as good news and he was grateful. I have to start to let go of my paranoia. But, I know I cannot fully engage in recover until he's out of there totally.
You know, I still wonder sometimes if she has found me and reads this. I have no reason to think that, but I so don't trust her.

LasVegas sounds decadent. I really have no desire to be there. I'll pray for a quick decision with your housing. Remember, you little men are still young enough that this can be an adventure. I know it's stressful on you and H but try to find the pot of gold, even though it seems impossible.

Hang in there...this is a long process.

Just had to pop in and tell you that last night when I got home, I went in our master bathroom and there in the garbage can were my H's trusty favorite sweats. I was shocked!!

I have been asking him to throw those out for years, even throwing them out myself when he's not looking and he retrieves them.

The other day I said...you know, those sweats are somewhat of a trigger for me. You had them before we met and they are your favorites so I know that you have worn them around the OW's that you also brought into this M (some of the internet OW's he met in person for sex before we were M). It would be nice if you would choose to throw them out once and for all.

So when I saw them last night, I thought of you and thought of this thread. I had the same reaction. WOW! Healthy skepticsm, but wow!

LOL!

That's awesome and I'm happy for you.
Do you guys go to counseling? It seems he's habitual in his outside interests and I wonder if he's ever considered finding out why. Just a thought.

We've done a variety of counseling over the years, some through church. I believe it has been good for us and has kept us working at it together.

He has much more ownership of his habits and addictions now and I think he sees them for what they are. He has had some really big breakthroughs regarding choices made based on perceptions and how he was raised.

We're still a work in progress though, that's for sure.

I'm not sure anyone ever reads this thread any more...but I need an area to vent some fears and feelings I have. Last night did not go well at all with H and I. We got into a true knock down blow out. He slammed the door on our armoir and crashed the mirror to pieces. Ok, so is anyone else superstitious? Now I believe I'm doomed to 7 years of bad luck. This kind of stuff is soooo stupid, but it plagues me. Anyway, back to the argument. The other night he casually mentioned that he was being moved to another building. I knew this was on the horizon but it really had no effect on me as OW still is at the same company so I simply assumed ALL would move. Hmmm...now he's saying that only his dept. is moving and hers is staying behind. This should be good new righ? So then why wouldn't he have told me? If you betrayed your wife and could potentially put her mind at ease with some good old space and seperation, wouldn't you automatically offer that info up? Wouldn't that have been something he ran home with? Maybe it's just me...maybe I'm expecting him to act as I believe I would, but really...this is big! This could mean an easier day for me all around if she's across the street and not flounsing her dumpy self past his window. No, that actually does not happen, but in my vivid imagination it does. I just don't understand. He seems angry that I have needs. He seems to think we can do this recovery aspect of things on his timeline. Frankly, I think I hold the cards now and I should be determining how it's going to go. There seems to be no fear of losing me in his heart at all. It's almost as if I'm disposable. I knew years ago that he did not fill my needs for romance and compassion, but other positive traits made up for that. I'm not foolish enough to think any marriage is 100% but I was pretty happy with the 85-90% that I had. I figured we had it pretty good. Was I so wrong? Do EA's happen because we, the betrayed spouse, have done something terribly wrong? Or is it because the Wayward is simply a coward and not strong enough to fight for what is right. That's it, really...I don't see any fight in him. Imagine if the shoes were reversed. I don't really think he would have fought for me. I think he would have rolled over and simply forgotten about it. So, today we venture out on a 5 hour road trip. I can't wait to be trapped in a car with the crabby patty and my kids. The kids are soooo excited about us going away for a few days. This was supposed to be a recharging exercise. A way for us to bond as a family. And, now H believes I've sabotaged it by having the nerve to ask him why he did not feel it was necessary to inform me as to his location changes. Little do I know, she's moving too and he's just leaving that part out. He does tend to back-door stuff so he can claim "I never actually said that". This is a man that I'm trying to rebond with. A man that I thought i'd live the rest of my life with through thick and thin. This is the same man who has broken me to pieces and is too stupid to put me back together. I'm not giving up...I'm just tired. I'm so tired of feeling like I'm holding it all together by myself. It must be nice to be able to have a little play time while married, decide your done and then re-establish your vows. Wow, what a selfish was to be. The entire vengence A is such a real idea in my head. I would never do it, but I have clarity as to why many people do. I firmly believe that two wrongs don't make it right, but my patience is really being tested.
So, off we go to Virginia. I'm going to have to try my hardest to keep my mouth shut and not dare to introduce any thoughts that may be remotely inflamatory.
Oh, and don't worry...he does not touch me...he slammed the armoir door. I am in no danger and have never ever thought I would be.

Hi Fiori,
So you did know that he was moving to another building as he had told you this some time ago right?

Let me try to put a different spin on this:

You are upset because he did not clarify to you that OW was not also moving. But he did tell you that he was moving. Yesterday, somehow it came out more specifically that OW and her building was staying put and not moving with his group.

Maybe he did not mention that OW was not moving because he was trying to assure you that he gives OW not a moment's thought. For him to bring up OW would be to acknowledge to you that he had thought about her. Maybe it is just his way of keeping his vow that he would not think about her. I know my H does not give the OW a moments thought. She is blocked from his mind. He has no feelings about her--positive or negative--. She does not exist for him.

I am not saying that your H had a specific plan or intent about what he told you and how he told it to you. I just think that he may be acting out of intuition and out of his own survival needs. His need may be to just block the sorry (self-censored) you know what from his mind.

I hope that you can try to let him know that you are putting all of this aside so that you can have a fun family trip together. Don't let that you know what spoil your vacation with your H and Family. Thinking of you and hope the two of you have some re-building good times together!

Lake,
Thanks...maybe that's the angle I should be looking at here. I'm going to pull myself up and move on. We WILL enjoy the weekend and I will not let the OW creep into my conscious mind. H reminded me last night that he was HERE. He was with me and he chooses to be with me. I suppose I've become a bit jaded. This should be a good thing but my mind automatically creeps back to the fact that he actually thought he had a choice! I've never imagined him NOT being my husband. Sadly, he may not be able to say the same thing. Oh well, today is another day!

((fiori))

I know what it's like to have those triggers and feel like the world is closing in around you.

Breathe!!!

Give yourself permission to push all thoughts of the EA out of your mind this trip and even work HARD on bringing up happy and loving thoughts about your H.

It may only make the trip go well and you will find those nasty critters creeping back in when you get home, but at least you will experience that you can do it!!!

Try it, it works! I've had 2 weekend getaways recently where I was able to push away ALL triggers and be in my own "fantasy" with my DH.

Take care.

Today I had to go to the train station to pick up my mac card that my H had in his wallet. Being curious, I decided to 'snoop' around a bit. Nothing was there that would arouse any suspicion in a normal marriage, but I did find a Christmas ornament that looked like a tool box with the year 2007 written on it in black marker. Generally my sisters in law give ornaments on every Christmas package and this very well could have been from one of them, but now I'm freaked. What if it was from OW? And, if it was, why keep it? CRAP!!!
So, do I confess that I took a little look/see and chance another argument? I'm not real good at keeping things in when they are on my mind. Probably, it's not from her, but what if it is?
And, then I delved a bit further and took out the top of the trunk where the spare tire is stored. In there I found the new $90 running shoes he purchased down town. They are the wrong size and he was supposed to return them because he preferred another color. Well, there they sit, unused and seemingly hidden in the wheel well. Why? This is odd behaviour to me. It may be that the 30 day return policy is over and he was embarrassed as he'd know I'd yell at him for poor time management, but who knows? What's the big deal? What's the secret? Are these simply guy activities and I've got him under a microscope? Am I nuts? Why don't I feel sane at all? Now I'm going to lose it and go making accusations and it's not going to be very productive. Please pray this man gets another job soon!!! I cannot take much more of this.

My DH has odd behaviors like that as well related to my perception of "time management". You know yourself best and you could be right about him wanting to hide it from you to not have an argument.

Be calm and talk to him about both. I learned something this weekend. My DH actually has triggers too. Nothing to do with OW. Triggers in our R that make him upset and hurt because maybe we've worked really hard for a few days and then I start 2nd guessing and spiraling downward and he feels like the last few days were a waste.

Hopefully that makes sense and the reason I mention it is because maybe hiding the shoes was to not upset you and you can give him an opportunity to discuss the things he does too in a safe environment.

Alot of writing just to say....yes, talk to him. Always be honest and be calm so that you can have a satisfactory conversation, even if he gets defensive at first. I have found that my DH now makes comments about how much "easier" it was to talk to me when I stay calm and how much he appreciates that.

Understood,
This is one of the things I apparently lack...the ability to talk to me. Supposedly I answer questions for him and never give him the ability to formulate his own answers. My H is very slow to react to most situations. This, I find very annoying. So, I've gotten into the habit of answering for him. It's something I work on regularly. I will talk to him. I'm not sure I'll bring up the sneakers as this makes me look like a total wench...removing the lid of the trunk to reveal the spare tire....

I hear ya.

Oh my goodness....I can totally relate to that. My DH told me once "I'm not stupid. Just because I'm not as fast as you, I get it I just process it differently than you."

Well, we had a small chat. I did ask him about the ornament in his car and he says he how no idea where it came from. I know that's ridiculous because if another man had given me any type of gift, you can be sure I'd know it. He says people give out all kinds of stuff at work and if it was from her he has no idea. He was able to admit that it MAY be from her but could not be positive. Hmmm....do you smell a fish?
I realize Christmas was many months ago and he did not really establish NC(my version) until February, but why keep it? Memories?? Man, this is killing me. I feel like I'm on the edge of a cliff again and he & she are going to push me over. I wish I had a clear head. We had a super weekend away. There is so much non-stress when I am able to remove him from the work environment. He's always been my best friend and now it's just such a betrayal to think another woman would know enough about him to give an ornament portraying a special hobby of his. Hatred is filling my heart right now but I cannot let it because I have to spend many more hours home alone with my kids and I cannot let them know I'm potentially broken again. Why is it soooooo hard to simply tell the truth? It's ridiculous to think he says it MAY be from her...he's really not sure....he can't possibly remember all the silly stuff that passes his desk at the Holidays....blah, blah, blah...
So, here I sit, on the verge of tears and wondering how to make this all work. Again, I feel like the crazy one. He's just going to work and trying to make a living for US and I'm all crazy at home looking through his stuff. What can I say?

Fiori,

I'm sure you've read the advice I've been getting...but I think it may be good for you too. You need to tell H that you were snooping. You need to ask him about the ornament and the shoes. The trick is that you need to make sure that he knows your motivation is to understand...that you are not accusing him of something.

I talked to H about the phone call. He didn't even ask me why I was looking at his phone. But I asked directly and without emotion. I said, "So why did you have a 23 minute conversation with BBOW after work hours?" He answered. I said, "I am uncomfortable with you talking with her outside of work and I feel like it is not protecting our M." I left it at that. He didn't say anything else, but I also didn't TELL him to do something different.

With you, maybe say, "I was in your office and I saw an ornament from 2007. Who gave it to you?" If he comes back angry...like you're accusing him...say, "Wait. I was just asking who it was from. I am not angry with you or accusing you of anything. It was just a question to put my mind at ease."

With the shoes, "I was looking in your car and I found the shoes that you said you had returned in the city one night. Why do you still have them?" Don't explain WHY you were looking in his car. Focus on the shoes. He'll explain. You say, "That makes sense." Or you say, "Why did you hide the shoes and tell me that you returned them if you didn't?" Calm, cool, non-emotional.

Can you do it?

fiori,

What do you know about his childhood? How did his parents discipline him? I ask because I can totally relate to what you are saying and I knew that my DH parents were strict and believed in spankings, but I recently really understood his need for "staying out of trouble" and how that has represented itself in our M.

My DH suggested a time that we get together to discuss things like this so that we can both be ok. LA had suggested a communication exercise to me that mirrors his suggestion only he was actually giving me a time that I could discuss my triggers. And now that we know he has them too, I'm looking forward to what we both can learn.

Don't let it ruin all the progress you've made. That is easier said than done, I have those days where I feel like I've been sucked into a cesspool of gunk!

And I seem to remember Dr. Harley stating that some people have good memories and some don't. I think as BS we have EXCEPTIONAL memory, partly linked to the Post Traumatic Stress that this has created in us. (i.e. hypersensitive)

Don't be mad that he's not "remembering". It may be his way of downplaying it so that he protects you because if he doesn't really know and care who gave it to him, then you won't have to feel pain. Not sure, just a suggestion that I think my DH does.

I completely believe that he doesn't remember. Guys don't seem to remember details very well. It would've been nice if he had said, since it might be from her and he could see you were upset, that he would toss it just in case. Oh well.

Call me if you need to talk. I have yucky days too and you have been there to talk me through it. You'll make it.

HTM

Thanks..
WE spoke again later in the day. I'm really not concerned about the sneaks, I know it's simply poor time management and embarrassment about it. He did ask me, though, where else I looked in the car. I told him (jokingly) that I had hired sniff dogs and borrowed a creeper to look under the car. Really, I would not do that...I think. Anyway, he apologized and swears it's really not a big deal to him and that if it was from OW he'll get rid of it. I'm not sure why he'd want to keep it. Both of us have memories in a box from before we met. But, those memories are not a threat to our family's well being. It seems very selfish to me that not only did he conduct himself as a single man for 8 months, now he's saving momentums. Really stupid from where I sit. So, I asked him calmly to take stock of everything and anything that may have exchanged hands over the months and kindly remove it so I never have to come across it again. The last time I found one of his 'memories' was totally by accident. He had stored a card in our box of safe keeping stuff and I needed a copy of my son's birth cert. for soccer. Boy was I shocked to find that! Anyway, he swore then that there was nothing else. Sadly, I did find a collection of cards but that was on D-day so it's a blur how that all occurred. Anyway, he has called to let me know that he loves me...I wish I thought/felt that all the time. When you are married to someone for almost 18 years you have a bond that you think is unbreakable. I sit very often and wonder 'what did she have that I did not?' I realize my memory is a steel trap. I forget NOTHING and he forgets EVERYTHING!! I'm surprised he remembers how to get home at night! My biggest struggle, other than everything, is trying to not make him be me. I want him to act and react like I know or think I would.

((fiori))

The dreaded "what did she have that I didn't"....yuck! I do that do myself too. It's so counter productive, I do it anyway, but it stinks!

Listen to what Dr. Harley says. It's an addiction for them. We wouldn't ask ourselves that about a cigarette. LOL!

Anyway, just letting you know that I feel ya!!

It's all good....

Thanks...
This club I find myself in really stinks! But, for people like you, I am appreciative from the bottom of my heart. I did a posting called "Garbage Truck" I need to read it again and memorize it.

My whacked out MC has some bits of wisdom...he told me that whenever we compare ourselves to someone else, the outcome is that we find ourselves in second place. His point is that it is NEVER a good idea to compare yourself. You will ALWAYS feel like the loser.

My H actually told me that I could have been the PERFECT wife and his A still would have happened. It really had very little to do with what I lacked or she had...just timing and ENs.

You're doing great. Keep going.

HTM