Hello - I'm a newbie here. I hope to get some good input and suggestions here to save my marriage...if possible.

Ok here's my story....my husband of 6 yrs (together 8) told me he wants a divorce back in Feb. out of nowhere. I was on my last week of maternity leave at the time with our 2nd child. I was completely shocked. I couldn't understand how he could say such a thing at a time when we should be enjoying our 2 month old baby. I had made plans for all sorts of 'fun' stuff since I only had a week left before going back to work. I asked him what this was about and he gave me a bunch of lame excuses...I didn't cook and clean enough, and I didn't give him any attention.

Well, it didn't take long to learn that there was someone else. But, it's WHO that shocked me. One of his best friends,Mark, died tragically last June in a motorcycle accident and was engaged at the time. My husband is in the Marine Corps (so was Mark) and attended the funeral as an escort. While there, he got to know the family and friends and gave them his contact info in case they needed anything. Mark's parents, as well as the fiance, kept in touch and I never thought anything of it. She'd call here & there and see how things were going. She'd ask about our son, me, the pregnancy. I had no reason to be jealous or suspect anything. Well, my hubby started acting really weird the first week of Feb and a week later said he wants a divorce. I was shocked, everything was normal between us. I immediately thought something was up since he had been acting strange all week so, I got online and checked the cell phone records and Mark's fiance's number was all over the phone bill. It started the week he was acting weird at home. Text messages all day long while he was at work and he talked to her his whole drive home (he has an hour drive to/from work) I asked him about it and he said they were just chatting. He left that night and started staying at a friends house. A couple weeks later he said they have fallen in love and want to be together. He told me that once our divorce is final, they are going to get married.

My confusion/question is this...can something like this really work out and last? Are they both living some kind of fantasy? This 'relationship' seems so wrong on so many levels. I don't think she's had ample time to grieve Mark's death and is using my husband as some type of replacement. Mark died June 8, 2007, they were to be married at the end of June. Then 9 months later, by Feb 2008 she's over it and ready to begin a relationship w/my husband. It just doesn't make sense how something like this could ever work out in the long run. Everyone keeps telling me that if he left because of her (which I know he did) then he will be back once the novelty and lust wear off and she realizes she only wanted him for comfort.

Does our marriage have any chance of surviving? Please provide some advice/input. Thank you.

Welcome to Marriage Builders and I am so sad for you for the reason you have found yourself seeking help here.

The arrival of kids changes the dynamics of marriages and sometimes those dynamics can be very negative for husbands. Wives are oblivious to what is going on in husband's head because they are so intensely devoted to the kids as they arrive.

But that is no excuse for adultery. And that is no excuse for a husband to abandon a family he helped create. Divorce harms kids, period.

I have a couple of recommendations for you. First of all, read everything you can here in the sections where Harley presents his programs and discusses adultery and how it changes the brains of the afflicted. Secondly, I think you probably need a session or two with Steve or Jennifer at the Harley coaching center to get you on track.

And yes, the new will wear off, and most usually, husband will be left with egg all over his face. Rebound marriages usually don't work out, especially when they are done on a foundation of adultery, lies and deceit. Heck, adultery doesn't work out in an overwhelming percentage anyway, and even so when it is rebound based.

To better understand the mind of your husband, read. I will make one final comment, and that is keep in mind that somewhere in the back of his mind, he will think that his "Other woman" is willing to have an affair with a married man. And she will think likewise. Affairs are all about lies, to each other, to themselves, and to everyone else.

It is way too early to predict the outcome. Much depends on what you do and when.

Larry

Thank you, Larry.

Your response makes a lot of sense. I did realize I wasn't giving him as much attention when the baby was born, but I thought he understood that it was temporary and things would get back to normal. Both of our boys were planned and we both wanted them very much. That's why I can't figure out how he can be doing this.

I think you nailed it when u said he will know in the back of his mind that she's willing to be with a married man. A little background: I think she tends to have a wandering eye. She was married when she met Mark, but was 'unhappy' So she met Mark online, they began dating and Mark 'pulled' her away from her unhappy marriage.

Do you know anything about the "fog" state of mind? I keep hearing that he is in the fog.I'm trying to figure out more about it and how long it lasts before reality sets in again.

Maybe she feels that he can take away her unhappiness over Mark just like Mark took away her unhappiness from her previous marriage. Or maybe she feels a closeness to Mark when she's with your H. Either way, it's no excuse and it's wrong.

I'm sorry for you needing to come here but rest assured, you have come to the right place!

Ok, so your husband is now mixed up with a serial adulteress. Now isn't that a match made somewhere besides heaven. You do have a right to make comment (in my opinion) in a level tone of voice pointing that out exactly as it is. The female critter in question IS a serial adulteress and likely knows all the buttons to push.

The fog is dealt with in detail by Harley in terms of the script that affairs follow. For more information, google phenylethylalamine (PEA). Copy and past, the spelling is contorted. I post on this subject from time to time to help people understand that PEA "is" the infatuation brain chemical and that it is very similar to meth in the way it works. It is also temporary but it can last for a while depending on the person. Don't confuse PEA with a similarly spelled chemical found in chocolate.

The serial adulteress in question likely gets off on the power trip. She may or may not be hit with the same level of PEA poisoning as your husband. Either way, she is no prize in that she is someone who is willing to break up families for a cheap and tawdry romance that will last until either your husband pulls his head out of his fundament or she gets bored and moves on down the road. All I needed was just a hint of her prior history to figure that one out all by myself. He should have known better and run like crazy when she first started hitting on him.

Larry

Thank you for the info on PEA. I will research it.

I know I shouldn't play the "what if" game because it just drives me bananas, but I can't help it.

I am very worried about her becoming pregnant. She is 38 (BTW, my H is 30; I am 31) and she doesn't have any children. She and Mark were planning to start a family right away after they were married. I'm sure she feels her clock is ticking. What do I do if she gets pregnant? Is that the point of no return? I know having a child doesn't necessarily keep 2 people together, but how would I ever get past it?

Also, is it normal for him to be very angry with me? When he speaks to me, he is full of anger. I don't know if it's the guilt? But, he treats me like I am the one who ran off and left him. I am told it is the guilt, he has to make himself angry with me to justify what he is doing and to brainwash himself.

Yes, anger at the betrayed spouse is very normal and for the reasons you indicate.

Have you exposed his affair to everyone and anyone? Do you have any leverage other than your kids? Unless she gets knocked up, it won't last a year. He will probably blame you for a long time because he sounds unable to relate to himself as the bad guy, which is exactly what he is.

Larry

I'm wondering about his need for admiration. Here he looks like the knight in shining armor, running in to save the needy damsel. She's grieving, looking for someone to rescue her, and he's right there to help out.........


You need to work fast on a Plan A - and make sure he can HELP YOU - let him come to your rescue a few times. Be there to admire him and meet that need in him. Make sure that something around the house needs his attention, and that only HE can handle it.

Call on him, and let him know how much the family - YOU and the kids - need him.

My husband went through something similar to this when his brother died. He was "there" for his SIL a little more than I liked. He called her all the time, sent flowers, etc. I had my fill of his rescuing her, and at one point he talked of moving closer to her to take his brother's place and get her "through it". I told him firmly that he was NOT his brother, and that she was not married to my husband - that I was married to my husband! Sure, my H was angry! He threatened to leave and move anyway - and I said, "so, your plan to rescue HER is to basically hand ME the cards that nature handed her? You rescue her - move closer to help her, leave me and the kids so you can take care of her? And in the process, I end up with NO HUSBAND, NO ONE TO TAKE CARE OF ME? Tell me how that is right??"

Maybe if you point this out somehow to him? Question his "rescue mission" and the logic of abandoning the family. Don't put her down in the process, just pose the question. And don't expect a logical answer - there won't be one forthcoming. The question is just supposed to put the seed of doubt in his mind. Believe me, it will, if he has any honor in his body, and any doubt about his motivations.


The truth has a funny way of making people REALLY MAD. So that is why he gets angry at you. When he gets angry, one of the best responses you can give him is a very calm, "I can see you're angry about what I've said. Maybe after you've had some time to think about it, you will find a way to talk with me about how I find the truth in it. Right now, let's just put that off for later."

That also worked for me in the early days after d-day.

Hang in there, and work on your Plan A. Get some good things going, because yes, there is hope for your marriage. There wouldn't be a Marriage Builders if there wasn't hope. The good news is that most affairs fizzle out sooner rather than later.

You just need to figure out how to be the BEST you can be, and make home look as enticing as possible. Affairland will be less and less fun the more you can expose the affair to their work and families - so get to work doing that.

Read up on how to expose this affair. Affairs don't like the light of truth, or reality. They don't like others to judge them. They don't like paying the consequences of real life, either. Make things hard for the affair partners - it doesn't mean YOU are a mean person doing it, though. There is an art to this.

SB

Larry-

I haven't quite read everything on here yet, but I'm working on it. I hope it doesn't last even if she does become pregnant. This just has all the ingredients of 'crash n burn'

As for exposing, he told his family about her before I had a chance to. Of course, he didnt come right out and tell them. He initially said we separated due to our issues. A week later he said they were talking as friends, she was helping him get thru this...uggh. Then a few weeks after he sent his parents an email saying they had fallen for each other and that he has found true love! He did the whole "it just happened" thing.

SB-

I have mentioned to him in the past that I understand he feels like she needs him. He gets very defensive and says, "No, she is a strong woman. She is ready to move on." He says it as if he's trying to convince himself....

You need to talk to his family, and her family and her fiances family and expose the affair. Let them know that you love your husband, and the marital problems started AFTER the widow's and your husband's friendship.

What your hubby is going through is very common.

You should be doing a good Plan A.

The answer is, yes, your marriage has a chance if that is what you want and your husband eventually comes to the same conclusion. I'd be as surprised as anyone if the affair turns into a successful long-term relationship.

If your husband is still in the Marine Corps, have you talked to anyone in his chain of command... a chaplain... do others in his unit know? I would talk to someone if for no reason but to make sure you and your babies are protected financially.

Lemme give you a clue about guys (and women) who get themselves into affairs as you describe in your situation. VERY often, they know they done messed up, big time. But they can't figure out how to get out of the situation. It gets internalized in very complex ways and guys often flail around trying to find something external they can blame, but it still boils down "Oh my Gawd, what I have I gotten into?"

Course that isn't what they SAY, except maybe to themselves.

Do check in with the Chaplain. Do talk to a Lawyer about protecting yourself. Do be pleasant and DO set the record straight with MIL, among others. Simply put, "There was nothing wrong with our marriage until he allowed himself to become infatuated with the serial cheater female who seems adept at manipulating gullible men. I can't compete with her there. I just hate what it is doing to the kids. I hate the fact he betrayed me. I don't hate him, but I have lost a lot of respect for him because he allowed himself to be sucked in to a relationship that has zero chance of lasting." Hey, what do you have to lose?

Be nice though. But do be factual. What a minute. All that I said was wrong. I haven't a clue how you go about setting the record straight. Maybe someone better equipped than me can give you some word tracks that don't kill Plan A.

Larry

Interesting update...

So he called yesterday and told me he's bringing the dog back. He had taken our dog to her house 11 days ago when I complained that I can't work full time, take care of 2 kids and a dog.

I asked if the dog was ok, he said yes. He then proceeded to tell me that OW is showing her true colors. I wasnt sure how to respond to that so I was just quiet. He went on to say that she said "this is all too much" I was dying to leap into 20 questions to figure out what is going on, but I refrained. What's too much? The whole situation, all his baggage? There has to be more to it than just the dog, right?

I then asked when he's bringing her and he said "this weekend and I'll probably bring all my stuff too and sleep on the couch or something." I was caught completely offguard and didn't know how to react to this comment so there was a long pause and I said ok. Should I have said something different? He was calling from work so I know he didn't have time to get into a long serious conversation so I didn't say much at all. Now I'm wondering is this his way of saying he wants to take steps toward reconciliation?

He also said to me, "you know, I didn't leave because of her." My heart tells me he said this because if I beleive he left for her (which I actually do) then we can never get past it. Whereas, if he left because of the reasons he gave me (cooking, cleaning, I didn't give him attention) those things are fixable. When all this started I told him over and over if those are your reasons for wanting a D, those things are fixable. They can be fixed overnight. So now I wonder if he feels the need to convince me those were the true reasons he left because I said they are fixable. But, if he left because of her, that's not quite so fixable. His tone was very nice when we spoke. He didn't raise his voice or say anything harsh.

Needless to say, I am utterly confused at this point. Why did he say her true colors are showing? Why did he say I'll bring all my stuff back and sleep on the couch? It wasn't too long ago that he told me he doesn't even want to spend time w/the boys at our house because I try to "play house" with him when he's around. Now he's talking about coming here and sleeping in this house on the couch?! And why did he say he didn't leave because of her?

I wonder if the fog is starting to lift? Any input/feedback would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks so much!

Well, it is good that they were living together, because affairs always end, but end quicker when reality sets in.

Have you been doing a good Plan A? Is the house clean and sparkling, and are you cooking up a storm?

Have patience. Don't get your hopes up. What you know now is that all isn't well in affair land. You need to show him a more attractive alternative.

Of course he says he didn't leave because of her. If that were true he would look like a big FOOL.

If he shows up to sleep on the couch, just let him know that you need a husband that doesn't have a girlfriend on the side.

I agree with believer. Make sure you have an EXCELLENT alternative...all of the things that he mentioned were problems before should be the focus of your attention.

When he is there...keep it CASUAL! No deep conversations, just Plan A. Avoid anything that might be a love buster.

Your Hs affair ran into reality. It's the death of an affair because affairs live in a fantasy world where the two in the A are blissfully unencumbered by the daily duldrums of life. Now you need to show him that while your relationship lives in reality, your reality is really pretty good.

I defer to vets for suggestions about SF if he stays, but I think that is something to avoid (if it happens to come up).

As for your Hs anger...my H did the same thing with me. Any time that OW was brought up, he would get SO ANGRY (pre d-day). He explained to me after d-day, that whenever I brought up OW, he was so angry with himself, that he defensively reflected the anger on me. He couldn't admit to himself the depth of disgust he had for his actions and so he found it easier to target me, put me on the defensive and thus take him out of the spotlight. It worked pretty well for him. I bought it and was afraid to mention OW...something that made his A much easier. But this is called gaslighting. It is a manipulation technique that seems to come natural to adulterers (and other addicts).

I know it's easier said than done, but don't take your Hs anger to heart. He is in an internal turmoil over what he is doing and what he knows that he should be doing. He has to work through that. You just keep up your Plan A and wait it out.

((((shelly))))

Oh, forgot the SF part. My view is there souldd be no SF until the wayward has gone to the doc and has been tested for STD's.

Watch out for a false recovery. Sometimes they go back and forth a couple of times, trying to figure out what they "want". That's probably why he's sleeping on the couch. He doesn't want to make her mad, and doesn't want to give you false hope.

It's called cake-eating.

You stay in Plan A. BUT, let him know your boundaries. If he talks of recovering the marriage with you, tell him that the boundaries for that discussion mean that he cannot ever ever ever have any contact with her ever ever ever again

and that he must write a no-contact letter to her

and that YOU will read it, approve it, and mail it yourself.

Once that is done, then you will consider reconciliation with him, because the marriage can survive the affair, but only if there is never contact with her for the rest of their lives.

That goes for contact with YOU and her, too.


There are sample letters for no-contact all over this board, so you might start looking.


There is something to be said about his point, that he didn't leave "for her", but that there were things wrong in the marriage. Partially true. Partially false. Let him know that you understand that there were things wrong in the marriage, and that you own ONLY YOUR PART. That there were things wrong in the marriage

and those things were fixable.

But his decision to have an affair? That is 100% his fault.

He must own this decision. All of it.

Because to do otherwise is to blame the victim, and that is wrong.


His understand can be helped, by doing some reading. Order "Surviving an Affair" and "After the Affair", and read them. Leave them around so he can poke through them (he will, if you don't ask him to!). Or, just tell him they are part of YOUR OWN growth and learning, and you "don't" want him to read them!!!!! It will probably work like a charm.........


Trust me, he knows what he has done. Saying "I told you so" doesn't win you any points. What will win you points?

Telling him you love him. You admire him. Avoiding running her down around him. Keeping up your own spirits. Keeping the house clean, and meeting his emotional needs. Avoiding long relationship talks (this will be very hard!!!). Letting him get over his stupidity at his own rate, owning his own consequences, and working hard at making those consequences stick while being lovingly supportive at the same time. There is an art to this, and it isn't easy. You can't be a doormat, and you can't be his mother, either.

You are his wife. You are trying to help him return to being your husband, the person you love, who loves you. He is NOT THE ENEMY. He is someone you love, who has done something that, while horrible, is forgiveable in time.

Remember that. Remember that when you look at him and your anger rises, that you do want this marriage - even when your rage is burning. Come here to vent. Don't lovebust.

Make your home into the place that really is the home he and you wanted to share when you walked down the aisle. It can be that place. You have to work at it - a fantasy just doesn't appear, it takes work. He found that out. So have the both of you.

Go to work, on you, on him, on the marriage. Because, to tell you the truth, this recovery road you two have just put your first foot down on? It's a long, long road. It has lots of twists, turns, and hills and valleys. It is not an easy road to take. In the final analysis, however, the marriage you find at the end of this highway can be what you dream for it to be. Because YOU are paving the road. You start now.

SB

Well, it was a false alarm. After my post yesterday I saw that he had left me a message on the home answering machine. I rarely check it since everyone calls our cell phones. Anyways he said, "Hey I'll just call u on Monday. I have a lot of stuff to do here so I'm just going to stay down here." He was calling from work. He stays down there in the barracks during the week instead of commuting. He didn't mention anything about the dog or her. I checked the caller ID and he had called from his work number. But, if he was really going to stay at work, why wouldn't he be able to call me until Monday? I know-he's with her.

I can't say I'm surpirsed. I was forewarned about this. Like SB said, they go back & forth a few times. I figured she'd make up with him because today was the 1 yr anniversary of Mark's death and 'm sure she didn't want to be alone and wanted him there to comfort her.

I am just so confused at this point. Will he really call tomorrow? What can he say now, after the talk we had on Friday? Do I play along, like I believe he was really at work all weekend?

Are you doing a great Plan A right now?

-Have you examined all the ways you have LBed, and completely stopped them?
-Have you determined his top ENs, especially the ones the OW is/was meeting?
-What are the main things he's complained about in your M?
-Have you thought of specific ways to meet his ENs and change the things he complained about the most?

-Have you thought of ways to let him see the changes you are making? This may require some thought if he doesn't come back home. Don't let that stop you though.

-Are you at a place where you want to make these changes, not to try to convince him to come back, but rather because it's how you truly want to live?

Shelly - the affair will end. Once the "cracks" begin, they can't be stopped. But it WILL be maddening for you for a while as he "flip-flops" with his emotions dictating his "feelings du jour."

Next time you talk to him, you might want to ask him what the Marine Corps motto means, and what it means to HIM.

Semper Fidelis = Always Faithful.

WHO, in your marriage, is "living up to" that motto?

For someone who does NOT live up to it, what ARE they?


God, Country, Corps, Family.

Tell him it might be time for him to actually BE a Marine and not a security risk to those he swore allegiance to, to protect, defend, and love even if it cost him his life.


God bless.