Malena,

Sounds like you did something that JL mentioned you should have been doing all along. Continue on this path. Keep turning to him for communication.

Don't wait too long to tell him though because the more you connect and open up together, the more he will feel betrayed that you turned somewhere else outside of him to have your needs met. It's a crushing blow.


IMO, porn addiction is just as devestating to a M as an affair. It does get in the way of true intimacy. I'm not one that will tell you that men are just that way or looking a little won't hurt anything. I have suffered because of my WH's addiction and it truly has hurt our M. And with addictions come relapses so it's a continued hurt without true, real help.

That being said, his addiction to porn (you knew this was coming) does not give you entitlement to search elsewhere for your needs to be met.

Wish you had found the website and learned about EN before you turned to an EA, but what's done is done and now you just need to do the hard work and R your M.

Maybe you can have the questionnaires ready to complete so when you tell him, you can demonstrate that you are sincerely committed to R.

Stay the course...

Melana,

Good for you about starting to talk to him. One thing you will learn around here is IF you make the effort you will begin to see responses because you are changing the relationship.

You do need to tell him about the EA. You also have an interesting opportunity with him about the porn. I am not fanatical about porn, but IF it is used as a substitute for a true relationship, then it is bad stuff. Your opportunity is here. You have told him you desire more physical intimacy. You might go further and tell him you know he views porn. What you would really like is for him to stop using the porn and spend more time with YOU in a sexual manner. Most men would kill to hear this from their W. We don't.

You have amazing leverage and you have been wasting it. Further, you have committed one of the deadliest of love busters, called the disrespectful judgement, DJ, for short. You have assumed that your H understood you. You have assumed he prefers porn to you, when he may have felt turned down for whatever reason and uses porn rather than face rejection. Sounds odd, but your assumptions have proven to be wrong and I bet they will contintue to be wrong. GET THE DATA! Talk to the man and be kind but direct.

I repeat all of this starts with honesty. Your H needs to know what you feel and to whom your feelings are directed. Not him but they should be.

Please read about disrespectful judgements in Harley's articles here.

God Bless,

JL

[quote=onlyUcan]Malena,



"IMO, porn addiction is just as devestating to a M as an affair. It does get in the way of true intimacy. I'm not one that will tell you that men are just that way or looking a little won't hurt anything. I have suffered because of my WH's addiction and it truly has hurt our M. And with addictions come relapses so it's a continued hurt without true, real help.

That being said, his addiction to porn (you knew this was coming) does not give you entitlement to search elsewhere for your needs to be met."

Yes, I have real mixed feelings about the porn. Like I said, its more because I view it as a replacement for me (DJ? Probably.) My husband has an addictive personality (not substances, thank goodness) but he always goes back to the porn.

A few years ago I would sneak and and catch him. I became obsessed with it, tiptoeing. It made me feel so low and sleazy- pretty similar to how I feel now with my EA (I'm still in withdrawl.) These confrontations just made us both feel bad, and as you can imagine, didn't help the SF issues. Anyway, I quit doing that, and for the most part chosen to ignore it. Now if he's on the computer with the door closed, I knock. I can tell by the reaction if he's doing something he's embarrassed about.

I guess I don't really want to know. I don't want to be checking up on him. I don't think I should have to... Marriage has to have a certain level of trust. I'm pretty perplexed by all the keylogging, GPS tracking, call monitoring, etc. that goes on with people here. I understand your spouses have not been trust worthy in the past, but do you get to the point where you do trust and quit watching every step?

[quote=Just Learning]Melana,


You have amazing leverage and you have been wasting it. Further, you have committed one of the deadliest of love busters, called the disrespectful judgement, DJ, for short. You have assumed that your H understood you. You have assumed he prefers porn to you, when he may have felt turned down for whatever reason and uses porn rather than face rejection. Sounds odd, but your assumptions have proven to be wrong and I bet they will contintue to be wrong. GET THE DATA! Talk to the man and be kind but direct.

I just read about disrespecful judgements. Thanks, I hadn't paid much attention. I need time to digest it. We had an arguement last night, and I committed many love busters. Back to trying to meet the EN's today...

Malena, it is not lack of trust that ruins marriages, but lack of boundaries. Blind trust is BAD for marriages. If your H had been checking up on you, would you be having an EA with a married man? No you wouldn't. You should both be an open book to each other. That ensures that you are not vulnerable to temptation. That is PROTECTIVE of the marriage. Neither one of you should have a secret second life because that is just an invitation to adultery.

Malena, talking to your H about all this other stuff is a waste of time as long as this lie remains between you. Recovery is possible ONLY and do I mean ONLY if you tell your H the truth. You are talking to him about the peeling paint in the girls bathroom on the sinking Titantic instead of the fact that the ship is sinking.

HE must know about the affair so he can understand how bad this really is. And he has a right to know the full facts because this is vital information about his life.

If I were you, I would tell him today, on the weekend, so he has a day to gather himself. But, that is the first step, Malena. A marriage with lies and deceit has no hope of recovery because it is based on a sham.

Malena,

You are in a position to do something for your marriage that my husband COULD HAVE DONE, but chose not to do.

Instead, he had an affair.

You are in the position to fix this thing before you nuke it.

My husband could have talked to me.

He didn't.

He could have come to me and told me he had feelings of need for another woman.

He didn't.

He could have told me he was dissatisfied with the frequency of our sex life.

He didn't.

He could have told me he wanted some sexual "surprises".

He didn't.

He could have, could have, could have.

Instead, he chose porn. He chose to look at other women. He chose to go out and talk to other women.

Then he chose to sleep with one.


Then he chose to decide I didn't need to know about it. Because what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me.

He was wrong.

It was hurting me, because I could not fix what I didn't know about.

He wouldn't talk to me, and I could not fix it - because although I tried to ask him, he was too embarrassed to tell me, too guilty about his own activities with porn, and too dammmmm stupid with lust after another woman to realize that I could, and would, do anything to fix what I KNEW was broken already.

But I had tried to talk to him. He just was not hearing my voice at all. He had already decided FOR ME.


I see that in you, Malena.

You have already decided a lot of things for your husband.

He's watching porn, as a replacement for you. (You've decided that, right?)
Have you asked him about the porn? About the needs he has sexually, and what needs you are not filling, or are filling, about how he might feel about the differences in your sexual desires?
Have you asked him about the concept that you believe (again-you decided this) that you have a stronger sexual desire/level than he has, and how this affects him in the bedroom, how this affects his approach to you?
You've kind of decided how he's going to react to hearing that you've had an emotional affair. Are you so sure about his reaction? Yes, he will be hurt - but so many wayward spouses are very surprised at their betrayed spouse's reaction. Don't decide for him.


My husband went so far as to decide that I should "never" know....because I would leave him. Really? I haven't yet. He was wrong about that. Wrong about so much.

None of his decisions were his to make, anyway, when it came to whether or not I should know. It is my life. I have a right to know about my marriage, and the state of my marriage. If my marriage sucks big-time, I need to know. I have a right to know it, because I have to be able to put on my big girl panties and deal with the problem.

Your husband needs to decide if he wants boxers or briefs for his fight.

He needs to know the problems in his marriage.

What might very well surprise you? Is that from his side of the marriage things are not all that terrific, either. He's watching porn for a reason, Malena. He "detaches" for a reason. You two don't connect for a reason. The EA is a symptom of the disease - and this marriage came to the point of the EA because there are problems. You are 100% at fault for your affair. But the marriage? It was in trouble before that, and it will not be a surprise to your husband when you tell him about this.

You both need to sit down for more than one heart-to-heart talk, and this is going to take a lot of work. But it won't EVER happen if you don't start from a point of honesty first.

That honesty starts with telling him about your EA.
It also starts with the respect of giving him the details that he needs to know - including who, what, where, when, why, how, and anything else he feels he wants to hear about it.

The hardest part of this is telling him with love in your heart. I wish my husband had been able to stop himself and tell me before he nuked our marriage.

Do this now, do it before you lose the chance to make your marriage into what it can be - better, stronger, and more fulfilling. It is possible. It just takes work.

Best wishes.

SB

Schoolbus, I know you are right. I know you are all right. I am terrified. Please know I am not ignoring your advice. It is giving me strength, I don't know where I'd be now if I haven't been pouring over these boards. So please don't feel you are talking to a brick wall, even if it seems like it.

Yes, my EA is a symptom, and I know my H isn't happy with everything either. I'm so afraid of what is in this can of worms. I know I am at a crossroads, and I know that my actions each day will determine my future. I am so afraid. And ashamed of my actions, and of my feelings.

I've read so many posts and read about so much heartache. Please know, that sharing all your experiences on this board is helping others. I think it would have crossed over to a PA by now if not for these boards. I don't think I would have been able to maintain the no contact if not for these boards.

I know I have A LOT of work to do, but I am doing the best I can at the moment. The withdrawl from the EA has gotten worse. I kind of feel like once I'm through that, I'll be in a better place to talk opening with DH.

I don't know who I am anymore, and really in the big picture, I am so, so lucky. I have nothing to complain about.

Of course you need to tell hubby as soon as possible. The longer you wait, the worse it is going to be.

Is your husband an angry sort of man, or will he just be very hurt?

Actually I'm very hopeful for your marriage, because instead of taking the easy way out and ruining 2 families, you seem to have a conscience.

I'm hopeful too. Actually, there's no question that my marriage will survive this. We are both death til us part kind of people, regardless. And yes, I do have a conscience.

Just had good talk with hubby. He's depressed, I'm depressed. I didn't realize he was depressed here also. Thought he was doing great as he'd been more social here. He doesn't feel he's connecting much. We're going to work on making friends more by extending some invitations. That should help.

He does have anger issues, but not scary angry. Not like I'd be afraid he'd hurt me or anything like that.

Do the two of you spend 15 hours a week doing fun things without the children?

No we don't,Not even close to 15 hours a week. Every minute of meaningful interaction seems precious.

This morning I woke to an email that was written late last night by an obviously very drunk OM. Along him saying he wanted to continue, wanting to get physical he said he was "going through a midlife crisis" and he talked to his wife about it and she "understood".

What that means, I don't know. I don't know if it means he talked to her about being confused, and general midlife crisis things, or if he told her, BTW, there's this woman I really want to have sex with.. I have no idea what he said.

I am feeling calm now, it is strange. I feel this EA is about to get exposed. A relief in some ways, as I obviously don't have the guts to do it. I still don't. Anyway, many of you saw this coming, I'm sure.

Malena,

So what are your action steps now?

Obviously the OM does not get the NC rule. Can you delete this email account? Have you told the OM that there is to be NC and you love your H and made a HUGE mistake in ever talking to him?

Where are you in telling your H? He may need to see the evidence of your STERN NC letter to OM.

Don't let this continue. It's spewing poison into your home.

Well, this guy only wants sex, he's been pretty clear on his intentions. and I think contact with him in any way (including another no contact letter) will only encourage him.

So, I'm not going to respond to it.

Why in the world are you reading his emails?????

He wants a quick piece of [censored], and is claiming his wife "understands". That is so disrespectful to you, your husband and your family.

Let your husband know TODAY, send OM a NC letter - telling him the flirting was a mistake, you love your husband, and want no more contact with him, and the next time he emails you, you will forward it to his "understanding" wife. Since she is so understanding, I'm sure she won't be shocked.

You are playing with fire.

He said he had no intention of contacting me, but he was really drunk, wanted to "be with me" went on to say his beliefs about "being true to self". He really has some wacked out ideas about marriage, I know this because we've discussed. He really sees nothing wrong with going outside for SF. That's why the email has me a little disturbed. I know the only reason he contacted was he was really drunk (he said as much-he had no intention of contacting me. He knew it was disrespectful, but just needed to make sure I really meant it.)

It is for these reasons, I think silence is the best response, although part of me wants to tell him to get a grip. I also want to know what he told his wife, but I think that would just encourage this though. Also, it really is irrelevant what he told her. I don't know that I'd really believe him anyway.

I'm going to block his email address now.

In my original letter I said 1) I loved my husband, 2) I wasn't going to cheat on him 3) I didn't want him to contact me anymore. Some small talk was also included. I think where he thinks "no" means "maybe" is he saw cracks in the marriage. He knows I'm lonely, knows I'm vulnerable. I told him that was what opened the door to this in the first place.

I've got to say though, I am so done with it. Never, never again. No fog.

You probably know where he lives right?

I would send a registered letter to his wife that only she can sign with all his e-mails in it and a letter form you saying you want him to quit contacting you ever again. It is only right.

Then, show your husband the latest e-mail from him, tell your husband you are sorry, and have your husband contact this man.

It is only right. Or are you so morally bad now and ethically messed up that you do not care about his wife nor about your husband?

Am I morally bad and ethically messed up? Yes, in that I let this whole thing happen.

But am I ethically messed up for not wanting to put it out there for everyone? My kids to see? In a town of fewer than 5,000 people? No. I think that would destroy too many people in the pursuit of radical honesty. I don't think that is the best thing for my family... I am going to move heaven and earth to make it up to my husband, meet every EN he has. OM wife? I think she knows what she's got there. I think it would cause more heartache for everyone involved to bring this up.

It all may be a mute point, as I have no idea what OM said to wife about EA. I'd be surprised if he gave many details, as like I said, he was just hoping to get some side action. I don't have any emails. I had deleted them and emptied the trash.

The chips are going to fall where they may. If my husband asks, or OMW, I will be honest. But to do it in the spirit of that it is the "right" thing? Sorry, I'm not convinced it is. I know that goes against the MB principles, but if this is nipped right now, where there has been no physical contact, and won't be anymore contact period, I think it is best.

Isn't the point of exposure to end the affair? If the affair is already over, I see more harm than value in it, in my situation anyway.

Malena,

Exposure will not destroy people. You aren't that powerful. What it will prohibit (continued secrecy) is cut off the chance for you to experience incredible forgiveness, over time, understanding and connection.

Which may be what got you to where you are now.

Sharing the truth of actions does not cause more heartache...the A did that. There is much more pain in what is hidden, manipulating others by withholding the truth, than in your previous choices. In fact, it continues them.

Respect others enough to deal with their own responses. Right now, you are doing what you did during the A...you hiding for their own good. Until you see there was no good and that hiding continues lies, you won't see how many people are already affected.

God is at work...get out of his way. When you do the right thing you are letting the outcome go...because you didn't control it, anyway.

LA

Sadly the affair is not over.

The stuff he is saying to you about his wife understanding, and being true to yourself is what they all say. They have figured out that is the quick way to get some sidepork.