I'm new here. Just found out that my wife is having a PA. It only started a couple of weeks ago. I suspected and asked her point blank. She is not one to lie so she admitted it pretty much immediately. Our marriage has not been good for quite a while. I have not been meeting her EN and she has not been meeting mine. It's been a business relationship about the kids more or less. She has been telling me quite clearly for over a year that she is not happy and that I am 'closed off' and do not respect her feelings. I'm a classic 'problem avoider' and buried my head in the sand avoiding the real issues. So, that wonderful strategy got me to here.

The real tradgedy of things is that I started going to IC about 6 weeks ago (at her request) to try to figure out things about myself with the hopes that she would eventually come into counseling as well to work on the marriage. I was willing to take this step because I love her and want to be with her. Why would she have an A right now of all times? Right when I am taking obvious steps towards trying to improve?

Now, I fear that she is caught up in the fog and euphoria of a new relationship. She tells me that she needs her space and we really haven't sat down and talked about the situation. She says if I cannot give her space that she will have to move out. She knows that I am hurting badly but she doesn't seem to really feel any empathy/sympathy for me and what I am going through. I've asked her to start MC with me soon and she said that she needs some time to think about that. Is she just trying to buy time with this 'needing space' thing in order to continue the A?

I'm just sick to my stomach of the thought of my family coming apart at the seams. We have two daughters (21 and 9). Where to go from here.....

Mindshare

Welcome. You have found a wonderful (horrible) place to be. The people here will help you through this.

You need this A to stop. This is accomplished by exposing the A. Tell anyone and everyone that might put pressure on your WW to end the A. Tell your family, her family, your friends, her friends...anyone who would make it harder for her to continue. This will make her very angry, but that is part of the wayward mentality.

Your WW is foggy. She is protecting her A and the desire to continue it. It is equated to an addiction here and I think it's an accurate description. She is addicted to OM. You can't really believe anything that she tells you at this point because it is all to make her A easier for her.

Read about the wayward spouse. Also read about Plan A and Plan B. You need to start a Plan A with WW...it is where you show her that you are a great alternative to the A, but that in order for her to have that alternative, she must end the A.

You may want to move your thread to General Questions II, as it gets more traffic and you will get more responses.

Good luck...we're here for you.

Thanks for the response and advice. I have read all over this site that exposure is the way to go. However, my W has never been one to care much about what others think of her. She already asked me if I had told a mutual friend of ours and I said know and she said that she did not either because she wants to protect my pride. She did tell her sister on her own. She isn't very close with most of her family so they won't be able to put much pressure on her and she really wouldn't pay attention to them if they tried. We have a number of friends but I'm not sure that any of them would feel comfortable (or be willing) to apply that pressure either. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that in my case exposure of the A is going to have the effect that it has for many. I totally get the concept but she just isn't one to bow to pressure of others or to get caught up in what others think.

I still think that exposure helps even if WW doesn't care what others think.

And you need to look at Plan B. It may be the only option.

Has she ended the A?

Unfortunately, it's very common for a BS to find many excuses to avoid exposing the A, as you have above. Hey, I was in your situation once, and I did exactly the same thing as you're doing now - find excuses to not follow the plan. And no, it didn't work out to well for me either.

No. I told her she needed to end it and commit to working on our M and that's when she said that she needed space and time to think about it. She won't commit to counseling so I'm not sure I can get her out of the fog.....

That is another way of her saying "I'm still seeing the guy". Sorry to tell you, but you need to expose her someway, somehow. Nothing you say at this point is going to change her mind...she resents you, and will not stop the affair just because you want her to.

mindshare,

I'm sorry you find yourself in this position. While your wife may not care about what other people think, most people do. That includes her affair partner. Exposure is about bringing the affair public, because they thrive in secrecy. If the other man is married, expose to his wife. If they are co-workers, expose to the people they work with. The point is that it isn't about only exposing to people who will put pressure on your wife to end the affair, it is also about exposing to people who could pressure the affair partner to end it.

Will your wife be ticked? Yes. Will she tell you that you have really crossed a line and all hope for recovery is over? Yes. But the reality is that unless the affair ends, you have no hope of saving your marriage anyway.

It's hard to accept that someone you love is willing to consciously hurt you. You need to realize that she is in a selfish mindset...one where the only thing she wants to do is protect that affair.

You need to accept this and decide whether or not you want to recover your marriage. If you want to recover then you MUST ACT. Plan A with the understanding that if she wants to be a part of your marriage, she MUST END the AFFAIR.


Or, you can wallow around in the pain and hurt that you are feeling now but choose to let her "have her space" and "figure things out." That means that you will forgo your needs and allow her to have her cake and eat it too. It is a terrible trap to fall into. You need to decide how much pain you are willing to accept.

If you want to recover, you need to act.

mindshare:

Yours sounds fairly similar to my marriage. FWW and I had grown apart, for various reasons, over the past two or three years, and she was feeling alone and isolated from me. A frendship with a guy at our church blossomed into an EA, and then a PA.

If your wife is going through what mine did, and it does sound as if she is, then you must recognize that she is in the midsts of an infatuation. And I mean a more clinical definition of that term. Her brain is now flooded with hormones and she is actually addicted to OM, just as a smoker is addicted to cigarettes or an alcoholic to booze. If that is the case, and it sounds like it is, then there's good and bad news.

The bad news is that, right now, the OM is the only thing that matters to her. Right now, she doesn't care about you. She may not be mean, and she likely doesn't have malice for you, but you are not on her radar anymore. She is oblivious to you. And that is not her choice, but the influence of the brain chemicals. She is literally addicted to OM. She is insane, she is irrational, she is not the person you previously knew. She will lie through her teeth and say things that make sense only to herself.

The good news is that infatuations only last a relatively short period of time, often 3-6 months (though sometimes up to 18 months). It cannot last, because the brain cannot keep up with the production of the hormones necessary to sustain the euphoric state.

So, what you should do during this period is to basically follow a Plan A. Be nice and loving to her, don't argue, don't yell, don't demand anything, including that she must stop the affair, don't press her for MC. Any of those will only drive her away from you. All you can do is basically correct the problems you had caused the marriage, and show her by your actions that you can be a desirable mate again. She'll notice it subconsciously, but she won't do anything to stop the affair.

What you want to wait for is the end of the infatuation phase, when the so-called "honeymoon is over." It will happen around when they have their first fight. They'll start to question the desirability of the other, and question the wisdom of the relationship. It is then that you would then start to encourage or demand that she end the A and cease all contact with OM. But you must still be nice to her, and meet her ENs. Don't expect anything in return, she's not ready or capable of that till she's gone through withdrawal and the fog has lifted. If you hadn't already at this point, expose the affair to family, coworkers. It removes more of the fantasy of the affair and instills more doubt in their relationship. She may have several false NC's where she breaks it off, or says she did, but only to go back to him. If and when she does cease contact with OM, she'll go through withdrawal (see below). That's how you'll recognize that she has sincerely ended contact with OM

If, after a certain reasonable time (3-6 months of Plan A), she hasn't ceased all contact with OM, then you would look to a Plan B, basically a separation. Assuming that you have been an ideal hubby during the prior stages and showing you can meet her emotional needs, then by you separating you'll be showing her what she'll be missing if and when you go to divorce. You must remember, OM met some needs you weren't fulfilling, but there are others that you met, that OM doesn't (otherwise she would have already moved out).

So, like you say, she's presently under the fog and euphoria of the infatuation. There's nothing you can do to speed that up, just be patient and let nature take its course. As she asks, give her space. But, continue to be a loving hubby. It will be hard, awfully hard. You may need medication to withstand the anxiety and insomnia, if that becomes a problem. But, be ready to press on once the honeymoon's over and she is more rational, and doesn't see OM totally as a god.

Once she ceases contact with OM, she'll go through withdrawal, like an alcoholic going through DTs. The first month is hell. She'll be angry, depressed and anxious. She'll break down and cry from a song on the radio, or even for no reason at all. She'll be nasty to you. But again, be patient and understanding. After about 3-4 weeks, the worst of the withdrawal will pass, and the fog will begin to lift. IT IS ONLY THEN that she'll be ready for recovery and rebuilding the marriage. It is only then that she'll really appreciate what she did and the hurt she caused.

You asked why she would have the affair right now, when you started counselling. The answer is, it was already too late. In my case, we both realized our marriage had problems, and that we were both to blame, and need to give each other more attention. But, for us it was already too late. She was already emotionally infatuated with OM, and would go to bed with him two weeks later. It took another 4 months, till just recently, that she ended all contact and is going through withdrawal.

You are in for a rough ride, at a minimum for the next 3-6 months. Be patient, persavere, and good luck.

All,

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I'm getting a little confused because of Galoot's last post. He is basically saying that I should Plan A and give her the space she asks for and not make any demands due to the 'Euphoria Period' that she is in. It may take 3-6 months. How do you get the strength to Plan A all the while knowing the WS is still going to the OP?

Also, Others have said that I need to expose the A and insist that she end it right now with NC. Those two things cannot happen at the same time. If I demand the NC she will almost certainly move out of the house at this point. She isn't one to take demands...she'd be more likely to do the opposite just to save face.

So, am I supposed to expose and demand NC or am I suppose to Plan A and give some space. Two completely different courses of action in my mind.

mindshare

mindshare,

My opinion is my own, and not necessarily shared with others on this board. In my experience with my WW, and based on my research on the psychology of infatuations (you may want to google the subject yourself), the first phase, infatuation, is where the WS is totally absorbed with OP, and is incapable of thinking about anything else. IMHO, any attempt to compel her at this point to NC would be futile, and would only drive her away. Others disagree, feeling that any time is the time to press for NC. I agree with that, but only after the 'honeymoon is over'. During the honeymoon, or infatuation phase, its a waste of time.

To get the strength, you may need a script from your doctor for AD. I was suffering panic attacks and insomnia during this period, and literally fell asleep while driving on the highway. Some AD's for anxiety did the job and got me through.

Exposing the affair takes the secrecy and fantasy out of an affair, and helps bring them to reality. All WS throw a hissy-fit after exposure, and tell you that you blew any chance of saving the marriage. But most don't leave, and eventually end the A. If you expose during the infatuation, it could shorten its length. It did for my WW. She later admitted it was like having cold water thrown on her.

IMHO, you should expose and Plan A (Plan A would be equivalent to giving space, and showing you can change and be the mate she needs and desires). You shouldn't give NC as an ultimatum (that would be a lovebuster), but let her know that, as you show her you can change and improve, and as she gradually finds her A untenable, you will further work to improve the marriage and meet her needs only if she ceases all contact with OM. There cannot be any reconciliation while she has contact with OM. It is only after she ceases contact and goes through withdrawal that the fog will lift and she'll regain some rationality.

I agree with Galoot... you expose while doing Plan A. That will mean that you will have to deal with her anger over exposure calmly and without lovebusting back. I also agree that NC isn't an ultimatum. If/when your wife decides she wants to work on the marriage, then the NC letter and follow through will need to be in place before you can work on the marriage.

As long as the affair continues, no progress will be in the marriage. The progress will be in your behavior (showing her that the marriage could be better through your plan A) and in ending the affair through exposure.

If you haven't already, go to the Q&A columns link at the top of the page. There is a lot of good reading there concerning affairs as well as a thorough explanation of plans A & B.

I'm sorry to hear about your pain, I am going through the same thing but about a month ahead of you.

You can read my thread (check my post history).

Expose the A. Expose the A. It's a guy from church, right? Tell the pastor. Is the OM married? Tell his wife. Did they get together at work while they should have been working? Tell the boss. You are not being vindictive, you are shining the light of truth into a dark, sick, and counterproductive secret place.

Your WW will be FURIOUS! FURIOUS! She will say things, ridiculous things. Just remember she is an addict and it is not her talking. She will accuse you of trying to ruin her life, be vindictive, that all her friends think you're insane, the list goes on. Just be calm and tell her you are following a procedure and you understand that she will be angry - that is just a part of the process.

Be calm. Good luck. There are a lot of knowledgable and thoughtful people here.

All the best,
Peter