Would you feel okay with having telephone (or otherwise) conversations about your marriage with another woman if your wife were home?

What's the difference now?

This lady friend met some of your important ENs. Do this often enough and the love bank idea will not just be "in theory" for you - you will experience "feelings" and "emotions" and an "attraction" for this woman as she makes love bank deposits.

very dangerous area
IMO
Pep

Seriously, isn't the difference OBVIOUS!!!

He doesn't have a "wife" anymore ... she abandoned him and their children for another man.

There is no need for these mental gymnastics about "if your wife were home" ... SHE'S NOT, and it appears quite OBVIOUS that AW3 is moving on without her. GOOD FOR HIM!!!

AW3 has shown nothing but integrity and common sense, once he came out of the early SHOCK of what he was facing. This is a MAN that shown that he can be trusted to make the right decisions for himself and his family.

he needs to remain squeeky clean for these reasons:

he's married
the adoption agency is looking in on him
family custody hearings will come up

and the big one

self respect

Pep

EGG ZAK LEE

Get some male friends to have adult talks with

When my ex cheated on me and wanted a D, I turned to a long lost female friend. Two of them, in fact.

They've been a wonderful source of support for me. The idea of having anything other than support from them didn't cross my mind while I was in the midst of the chaos.

I wanted to recover my marriage and didn't feel like jumping into the arms of another woman as a way to feel better.

I turned to my friends for support and they are the two best friends I have on this Earth.

Granted, they both live very far away so we're limited to phone conversations.

I think you can have a limited amount of contact with a female friend. AW3 has a good enough head on his shoulders to know what is a dinner between people who understand each other's pain and a "date".

If you can't control yourself, AW3, then don't do it. But if you know going into this that there is no way in he*ll you're going to have a relationship with someone new, then enjoy the distraction.

Yes, shy away from women during this time, but a one time meal isn't going to lead to the abyss of a revenge affair. If you come back to this forum and make a liar out of me I'll switch from 2x4s to 4x8s!

Turn to your male friends if you can. It's hard since men don't talk well about this stuff and the advice often boils down to, "let's have a beer and watch the game", so I understand the desire to have a female to talk to.

But a one time dinner with a person who understands your pain? That doesn't make an affair. If that's the case then I've been guilty of cheating many times.

Two weeks ago I met up with a friend of mine who is 7 months pregnant, happily married, and has always been just a friend.

We met with the approval and knowledge of her H and had dinner.

She was my workout partner and fellow flight school student 10 years ago as well as confidant.

Two adult memebers of the opposite sex can meet and not have hormones ever enter into the equation.

Otherwise what are we but just animals guided by testosterone and the need to procreate?

Sure he does. He has a wife until there is a DIVORCE on file telling him that he doesn't have a wife.

AND...as long as he is thinking of reconciliation or recovery, he has a wife.

He is NOT finished with this current relationship (his marriage).

He is too vulnerable right now, imho, to go to dinner with members of the opposite sex.

But what do I know...I've only been reading this site for six years.

committed

AW3,

Is she long time friend or a new acquaintance? Could you go as a group, like a divorce group?

I joined a divorce group and have a good foundation of friends as a result. I know I can call on any of them for a hand and they would help.

We, as men and women, go out together and do things together.

I encourage you to look for something similar. Look for a group called "DivorceCare".

Then again, you aren't in Plan D yet.

Just be careful. Going to dinner with a woman at this time is playing with fire, but you know you and you know how you approach stuff.

I am disappointed that anyone on this forum would encourage AW3 to talk with this woman, much less meet her for dinner. How it would look is the least of his problems. They are both too vulnerable. I would be willing to bet that most WS on this site thought that they knew themselves well enough not to allow their "friendship" to go beyond a sympathetic and understanding adult ear. My FWH falls into that categorie. He did not believe he was capable of infidelity.

I can even remember an instance of a BW falling into an A with someone in their church divorce group. Not a smart idea IMHO.

God's Blessings,

Say

Relax guys...I'm NOT an idiot! In fact, this lady even told me the story of how she had met someone immediately after HER seperation and thought at the time she had found her TRUE love. She said it took her several months to realize that he was just a rebound relationship. He was someone she learned she had very little in common with...she realized that she was just flattered to have another man's (besides her ex) attention.

I AM NOT looking for ANY relationship! Yes, I do still hold out hope for R! NO, I have NEVER spoken privately or secretively about my M with another woman (though she certainly has done the opposite MANY times!). I have no regrets about MY past, and I am above reproach in the area of fidelity.

However, here's a new kick for you in regards to R. My state's adoption authority informed me today that, if my W WERE to return to our home, they will definetly remove my daughter from my care and I will lose all hopes of adopting her. I guess I hadn't looked at their perspective until it was pointed out...but they view her as EXTREMELY unstable and incapable of being trusted to care and be devoted to this beautiful little girl. I suppose they also will question my sanity and priorities if I allow someone of questionable character back into our home!

Again, you are blowing the whole "other lady" thing WAY out of proportion! I asked for your opinions...I got them...and I agreed with them (mostly). I DID NOT go to dinner with her, nor am I naive enought to NOT realize when the conversation becomes inappropriate by phone. She is a not even someone at this point that I consider a friend.

Yes, I know that I am vulnerable, that's why I'm just enjoying my children and other family now. Yes, I do have male friends, but they are all married. I know this is a good thing, single friends would have a totally different set of priorities from me right now!

I'm doing great, I'm in total control of my own emotions (finally), and I'm doing EXACTLY what I should be doing at this point. Perhaps I could do more legally, but my hands are somewhat tied by the whole adoption thing. I know that ANY court orders right now would lead my WW to initiate a custody dispute, and that would kill the adoption. I hate I even mentioned the whole "dinner" thing...maybe I was just thinking out loud or maybe I was just feeling lonely at the moment I typed it...but there's NOTHING to it. Don't worry, I'm following the PLAN!

I'm not encouraging the man to cheat on his wife. I'm also not in the school of thought that you can't meet with a member of the opposite sex under any circumstances.

I'm telling the man not to make a habit of it and to understand his limits and vulnerabilities.

Having dinner with someone isn't going to land him in bed with her by the end of the night.

Yes, I understand he's vulnerable, but I'm also telling him to look within himself and be truly honest about whether or not he could see this person as a friend only.

Some of the women in my divorce group are 20 years older than I am. I've hung out with some of them. It's been nothing more than friendship and companionship.

I'm encouraging AW3 to be honest with himself. If you're attracted to her and you're married, then stay the heck away because that attraction is an opening.

I've also told him to lean towards male friends instead of female friends.

I'm not in the habit of telling BSes to run out and have friendly dinners with memebers of the opposite sex. I know better. But each situation is unique. THAT is my point. AW3 doesn't strike me as the "I have to have someone in my life" kind of man. He strikes me as the "kids first" type who would rather be single and there 100% for his kids than to be in a relationship simply because of lonliness.

AMEN pom...you are exactly right. I am here for my kids FIRST AND FOREMOST. The devestation they have been forced to endure will not be mulitplied by my actions!

Then, what's their view on having your D stay with your WW over the weekend?

And if WW is deemed unfit for your youngest D, what about your older kids?

What does this do to your plans/hopes for R? Is there a scenario where the adoption authority would allow your W to return to the household?

Basically, any R would have to take place AFTER the adoption is final. At that point, D is mine and mine alone and they have no say in anything.

The state has no authority at his point concerning my other children. Whether any of us like it or not, she IS their mother. I can't really prove her unfit, only a terrible W.

One more point though, my son says WW physically struck him on the back and neck Friday night during an attempt to take his cell phone from him. Not too hard, he says, but still an actual blow just the same. I'm starting to fear for his safety in particular and may be forced to seek protection for him from her. I know that he is being very difficult with her right now, but there is NO excuse for her striking him at all!

In this day and age, if she's striking him, why is he legally obligated to continue visitation? I would think he could report her and wreak all sorts of havoc.

Not sure he would be legally obligated. Again, I'm trying to keep the peace until AFTER the adoption. However, I'm not sure I can let this sort of behavior continue. I wonder how bad it actually was...but I also wonder how bad it could be next time???

She's actively destroying your family.

She's grabbed your son by the throat.

She hit him this weekend.

Umm. Sorry, but she IS an unfit mother and you should absolutely go to CPS NOW and file a complaint and get a restraining order.

Her behavior is completely unnacceptable. AW3, I'm in your corner. I'm like your coach, kicking you in the butt, grabbing your facemask on the sideline and looking you in the eyes and saying, "Damn it! Protect your kids! Now go in there and report to child protective services and don't let this woman hurt your son again!"

I haven't made a huge deal of it yet because he didn't. We spoke numerous times on Saturday and Sunday morning and he never mentioned this. Only today did he tell me about it. I will speak to him again about it and explain that she is not allowed to lay one finger on him...EVER!

I know this seems complacent, but I still have an adoption to consider...as well as another daughter to think of. I think WW is just losing it, realizing that she has lost all authority over him and respect from him. I had hoped that she would tire of dealing with him and stop insisting that he come for visits. That may not happen...at least not anytime soon!

M says WW claims she never laid a finger on my son. I'm really not sure if she would admit it or not. I even instructed M to ask WW in an email, hoping to get her to document what had happened. Apparently, she figured that out and claims to have just "hugged and kissed" him.

She DEMANDED that I bring the kids for a visit today, but I have refused. We had originally agreed to every other weekend and alternating Tues. and Thurs. This week, the visit should happen on Thurs., and I will honor that time. Luckily, they can only possibly be with her for an hour or so, since my son has All-Star baseball practice and my daughters are attendind Bible School with my mom.

I did find out that one reason my son got even more irrate at WW this past weekend was because he went through her cell phone. He found a picture of OM and DOZENS of calls to an area code that he knows is near where OM lives, most lasting 1-2+ hours. WW has insisted to her kids that OM was just a "friend," my son is smart enough to know better...and now he feels he has proven it! How stupid was she for letting him go through her phone anyway??? She knew fully well what he would find!

So for now, I just have his word versus hers. Of course, I completely trust his version of things, but I don't know if the courts will. I have told both of the older two kids that, from now on, except when sleeping, they are NOT to leave one another's sight!

If anything happens again, they are to inform me IMMEDIATELY, and I will then diall 911 and call DSS (of course, as a foster parent, I know everyone there!).

AB3, tough situation. You do have the adoption to consider. Is your son in fear of your wife? Doesnt sound like it to me. Others wont agree but I think thats important. If he is in fear he needs to be removed from that situation immediatly and CPS should be called immediatly.

If not. I dont think it is necessary right now if this was an isolated incident. Your son sounds very mature. I think you can find an age appropriate way to tell him how important the adoption is and how he can help. Maybe thats too much to put on a 12 year old, you are the one who knows best.