Malena,

Radical honesty is between you and your H. Disclosure to your kids is not required and should only be done IF you and your H agree that this will help them.

Disclosure is for you and your H. If he were here and you were still in the affair and hadn't stopped he would be counseled to disclose your affair to those that might have some influence on you: your family, his family, close friends, clergy, etc. The idea of disclosure is to seek help from others in addressing the ongoing affair.

The disclosure we are all talking about is between you and your H. Some of us guys don't view an EA as nearly as bad as a PA, if you have been around here a long time you know it can be just as deadly to a marriage. Your disclosure, should include your loneliness, your inappropriate contact of OM on the web (if that was the case I cannot remember), and your emotional attachment to OM. It should also include your actions to end it, the things you have learned here, and the things you have learned yourself as you have considered your actions. It should also include your goals for your marriage, why you want to work on it now, and how you feel the two of you can build a better marriage.

You can do disclosure via a letter if you are more comfortable getting your words together before confronting him. You can do disclosure in the presence of a third party: a counselor, clergy, friend, whatever. You should consider this IF you think he might react with violence.

You could do disclosure via email. But, if you use the letter, give it to him, let him read it and tell him you will be waiting to talk with him (in another room, somewhere where you are comfortable) and you will answer all of his questions.

You don't just run in and say "hey guess what? I had an affair." it is perhaps better than nothing,but as you can imagine it isn't optimal.

You have a lot of information at your disposal, use it to make a good plan for disclosure and then DO IT. It will be tough and there are no guarentees, but your marriage will have a much greater chance of growing into something that truely satisfies you.

Oh! for future reference when you two do get to recovery, and the issue of porn is brought up as it should be. It might help him to know that you worry that you are not enough, and what you are willing to do or not do to help him kick the habit. It might be that it is really more of an addiction than a real need. He just might need to substitute one habit for another, and if you are willing to be come that habit this might work well for the both of you.

One thing at a time though.

God Bless,

JL

Whereas what you should be giving thought to is the devastation you are causing your husband but not surprisingly, all you can think about is the effect on YOU. Because it's ALL ABOUT YOU.

You are worrried about the consequences and ramifications for YOU.

Try and worry about your husband and give him the knowledge you are denying him. Your marriage can survive your affair but secrecy will kill it and every DAY you delay is another day you have robbed from your husband.

Yes, your marriage could survive the affair. It probably wont survive the fake "goodness and perfection" you will start now to show your husband out of your own guilt.

Your marriage will be weak due to your own selfishness and deceit as a person. And who cares about your town. If you reveal the truth to your husband, who is he gonna go tell? you think he will tell people? You really think the other man (the drunk) and his wife will blab about it to anyone>?

It is just excuses you tell yourself for why you cannot be honest to anyone.

I love me husband. That is not fake, that is real. The efforts I am making are real. Despite that you think I need to be doing more, please don't discount the work I am doing. Last night we sat down and started reading together about the basic concepts. I read aloud to my husband about radical honesty. My face must have been the color of a turnip. Guilt will do that.

Some of these posts are scathing. I can feel the contempt. It's all about me. I am selfish. I am a bad person..... Here's something I want you to chew on. It is not easy keeping this inside. In fact, it sucks. I screwed up. I am embarrassed. I am mortified that it could have turned physical. There is a huge amount of guilt. The guilt. The guilt. Telling my husband would alleviate that guilt, but at what cost?

I really don't think he wants to know.

I started to talk to him about the initial inappropriate interaction with OM at the bar right after it happened. I told him, that I'd had too much to drink and made a big fool out of myself. I ran into X and kept talking to him. I told him I was sure he'd be hearing about it. I thought that would open the door to questions. He didn't ask a single question about it. Not one. How I wish I would have just let it out then. We were so disconnected at that point- we could hardly have a conversation.

Now, I've really opened up. I want to let him know the causes of this. I've been telling him about the SF issues. I told him I could be intimate several times a week. I told him I think about sex a lot. I am ready to tell him I've been tempted. All this he could handle. At his point, the specifics of those conversations with OM? Too hurtful. He would not want to know. I believe this.

He has told me repeatedly in the past not to make my problems his problems. He'd want me to figure this out.

My husband has been doing lots of research on controlling behavior, as he thinks he has issues with it. He does, as he usually gets the last say in...most things.

Maybe this withholding of info is my own controlling behavior. I think I need to explore that further.

I am focusing on BH needs, exploring to find out what they are. I do that because I love him and I value my marriage. It is not a sham. If he finds out, years down the road, or tomorrow, so be it.

Thank God the A didn't go physical. I never would consent to seeing OM in person after that initial night where EA began. I knew that would be a bell I really couldn't unring.

Update on OM: Still no contact. It is done. Over.

P.S. Sorry for the ramble.

"I read aloud to my husband about radical honesty. My face must have been the color of a turnip. Guilt will do that."

Wow. Why bother reading about radical honesty? This is mind boggling, and you don't seem to see any contradiction.

Why not renew your vows too. They could go something like:

" I promise to continue treating you with contempt. I promise to lie to you about my real thoughts and feelings at every possible occasion. I promise to continue to deny reality. I promise to plaster a fixed grin on my face at all family get togethers. I promise to answer "nothing" if you ask me what's bothering me. I promise to go through the motions and play a role while quietly seething and fantasising that I'm somewhere else with someone else. I promise not to confront you with secrets that threaten the underlying structure of our empty lives, till death do us part".

I really thinks she gets this. I do agree that she needs to reveal this, However no matter how much we place the right food down in front of her..she has chosen her own food to eat.

Malena,

I know you think you are doing the right thing, you are even doing things that are positive but still skirting around the issue.Yes, the things you said to OM were embarrassing and probably very much filled with descriptive sexual innuendos that would drive your husband into rage, hurt and disgust.
Yes, you are staying no contact with OM. Yes, you are determined to stay that way, but the guilt is already eating you alive.
How long you are determined to live with that is up to you. The longer you live with it...the more devastating it will be when it comes out. You said so be it. I really hope you are ready for that if you meant that.

Malena, this is just another excuse to avoid telling your H the truth. Of course your adultery is *HIS* problem, he is married to you, remember? He can't understand the gravity of the true problem until and unless he knows the FULL TRUTH. This train is going nowhere if it is fueled with deceit and fraud.

All of this other stuff is a sham until he knows the truth. That is the best thing you can do for your marriage. Until that happens, then there is absolutely nothing you can do to recover your marriage because a marriage based on fraud and deceit is impossible to recover.

And I will just forewarn you, most posters here will not help you in perpetuating a fraud on your husband. We won't support you in lying to your husband and that is exactly what is happening here. We WILL support you in doing the right thing.

Tell the man the truth, Malena. Honesty is the solution, not more lies.

Lying to your husband does not demonstrate that you love or value him. Your actions demonstrate the exact OPPOSITE. It demonstrates cruelty and profound disrespect. If you view lying and cheating as an act of "love" to show how much "value" your H, then you are DANGEROUS. You are a danger to him. And he needs to know this.

Deceiving him while playing these pretend little "recovery games" are nothing more than an attempt to assuage your guilty conscience and will do nothing to help your marriage. Your H will see it as such too.

Tell the man the truth, Malena, honesty is the only solution. You are compounding the crime with your continued dishonesty.

Let me add a bit to what others say.

From observation, it seems to me that betrayed husbands are better able to deal with adultery on the part of their wife if they 1) discover it while it is still going on and 2) think the have a hand in destroying the affair and winning wife back.

Again from observation, I have seen guys who discovered that the wife had had an earlier affair and thus had a greater degree of difficulty dealing with it. In fact, I have noticed that discovery years down the road makes it more difficult to recover AND, guys seem bent more on revenge.

I think it has to do with the perception that wife lived a lie for so such a long period time. Trust isn't just destroyed in the case of long after the fact discovery, the ability to trust gets damaged beyond repair.

I wonder what Dr. Harley has to say on this subject?

Larry

Dr. Harley: "Radical honesty is so important in marriage that there is a much greater risk of divorce when a couple is not radically honest, than there is when a couple reveals very hurtful information to each other. "

and -

Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


"From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better. "

full article here

From: Requirements for Recovery from an Affair


Dr. Harley:

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

con'd at link above...

Malena,

Think about your love deposits...all the ones since you began your A up until the day you tell him the truth...he will withdraw all of them as worthless.

Because he will not believe what you said or did until he knows the truth. Reasonable, because it took a lot to lie to yourself...treat each of your justifications for not telling as a lie to yourself.

He doesn't want to know. Check that one.

I believe you love your BH. I believe you are experiencing a lot of pain, guilt and shame. I know none of that will go away until you own what you did, why you did it and why (and how) you won't do it again. There is no healing until you act from ownership.

And I believe your BH can forgive a whole lot, over time, going through his deep grieving process...and each day you add to your large lie by omission, cutting him off from his opportunity to forgive you and to heal from what has already been done to injure him (he is injured already)...lengthens the time it will take and lessens the opportunity to fully recover.

We've had many couples on this sight who weren't told of the A, when it happened and after it ended, for years (some, more than a decade) said that it was not being told that hurt the most...because it erased all the loving years in between...when they could have been recovering.

And still those brave BS's have battled for their marriages...seems the toughest road for anyone...because they weren't dealing with the truth...just daily, hourly lies by omission. Crushing.

LA

Malena wrote:

Trust me, he DOES want to know. I'm a former betrayed spouse and without question I certainly did. There are THOUSANDS of WS stories here (BS too) who learned the very same thing.

So welcome to Marriage Builders, Malena. And congratulations for finding the one site on this planet that will help you rebuild your marriage. Now all we need you to do is read, listen and be open to learning. You obviously don't know it all, else you wouldn't be in this mess. You agree?

There are some of MB's best and brightest responding to you. Do yourself and your marriage a favor and consider what they have to say.

Or even better, give Steve Harley (owner of Marriage Builders) a call for a counseling session. You won't regret it. He is the expert in his field, bar none.

Cick on "Coaching Center" up above for his contact info.

God Bless,
Jo

The above quote to me sounds like you may think that you are only being posted to by BSs...That is not the case Malena...Read my signature line...I am a FWW...It wouldn't matter if all of the people that had posted to you were BSs though...How can you discount their hands on EXPERIENCE with EXACTLY your situation? Do you realize the GOLD that they are giving you? We are all trying VERY hard to give you a map that leads you back to doing what is RIGHT, JUST and GOOD...You will only feel good when you do good Malena...Remember this:

FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS!


The posts are NOT "scathing"...The posts are CARING...VERY CARING...All of these posts are offering great care to YOU, YOUR HUSBAND & YOUR CHILDREN...Your current plan offers care to NONE of you, even if you think it does...It does NOT...Your marriage will NEVER be what it should be as long as this lie remains...That robs your entire family Malena...


This is laughable Malena...REALLY...How would like to know that your husband was deciding what you should or should not know about YOUR life? Somehow, I don't think you'd dig that...


YES...IT IS CONTROLLING...No need to explore, it is TRUE...You ARE controlling him...You ARE treating him like your PET...


NOOOOOO...The efforts are NOT real...Because your BH does not have all the facts...You are altering his reality by withholding very pertinent information about his life...

Malena, I have to tell you that I am SHOCKED that you can't see the absurdity of reading about radical honesty to him...You are trying to get him to live up to a standard that you are not willing to live up to...You expect radical honesty from him, and yet you aren't willing to give it to him...THAT is the height of disrespect...


Malena...It IS a sham...You can call it whatever you like, but it won't change the FACTS...You have your husband in this marriage under false pretenses...You most certainly are NOT loving and respecting him...

Saying so flippantly, that "if he finds out years down the road, or tomorrow, so be it" is very damning evidence of how little you care for him and your children...I am very sad for your whole family Malena, and pray that you change your mind...

Mrs. W

Malena,

I can only tell you what things looked like from the BS's point of view on not knowing. And from the BS's point of view on the idea of "meeting the needs" of your husband while you continue to lie to him by omitting the truth - by not telling him what happened.

Here's what happened in my life. The "truth" I never knew about, but found out about when I accidentally ran across a nude photograph of my husband's lover on his computer. I never knew what he was doing...until that moment. Even when I found the photo and confronted him with it, he lied and said, "Nothing happened." Those were the first words out of his mouth.

I asked him if he expected me to believe that. He said, "No." He then told me - only after I PEELED IT OUT OF HIM - that they were having an affair.

I asked him if he had planned to ever tell me? He said, "No."

Then he said, "I thought if you didn't know, it would never hurt you."

He told me basically the same things you are saying.

-I didn't want to know.
-If I didn't know, it couldn't hurt me.
-He was doing nice things to make up for the guilt he felt.
-It was more loving to protect me from the truth than to tell me the truth.
-Since it wasn't my fault, then I really didn't have to know. He could do the work to fix "his" problems, by working with me and I didn't really need to know what had happened. That wasn't really the important part - it was only a symptom of the problem anyway, and we needed to work on the PROBLEM.
-It was for my own good, because it keeps me safe from pain, anger, and sorrow, that I never know.
-It was to keep my marriage from harm not to tell me.
-It was better that I not know, so he could repair his part of the damage on his own, and that way he would never do this again and I would be spared any problems that might have ever been caused by his stupid, selfish act.


Sound familiar?


So, here is how I felt.


The whole time my husband was in his affair, he was doing things and saying things. You know, life went on in our marriage. But things weren't quite "normal".

He said things.
He did things.

And once I found out about the affair, I looked back at those things and thought, "What about the things he was saying and doing while he was with her? What did he really MEAN then?"

And boy, did I do some thinking!

Those little "nice" things? They sure didn't mean anything anymore!!!! Taking me out to dinner while he was actively LYING TO ME? I saw that as a way to assuage his guilt - NO WAY did it mean anything other than that. It meant, and still means, NOTHING MORE TO ME. Never will.

Fixing things around the house? Helping me with chores? Taking me for rides on the motorcycle? Sending me flowers?

Did any of that mean anything at all while he was actively lying to me?

OF COURSE IT DIDN'T! Not to me! If he had come to me with questionnaires, marriage books, lovey-dovey hearts and candy, none of it would have meant squat.

Because he was lying to me. LIES.

He was coming to me in a dishonest manner during that time. I have to question everything he did and said during that time, because every single thing is tainted by his lies.

Can you see that?

In my eyes, none of it means anything at all. Because it all falls under the question of his motivations - why was he doing this - was it because he loved me, or because he was covering the lie, or because of his guilt, or because he was trying to buy time, or because, because, because....

And my mind starts to work on any and all possibilities.


Some that are so far-fetched I even recognize them as ridiculous.


But there they are.

Because the lies make it impossible for me to trust anything from that time period. That entire time period is completely wiped out for us.



The longer you fail to tell your husband, Malena,

the longer this time period will be for you and for him.

Your choice.

It can be a month of "questionable Malena time", or two months, or a year....or five years from now....

But it will be your choice.

Know that going in.


I personally do believe you - that you do want your marriage, that you never want to cheat again, that you will never contact that scumbag OM again, that you do want to fix things.

I believe that. I see the truth in your writing. My job tells me that your posts speak the truth.

Yet I see you also running in fear - the fear that your husband will see you as less than he sees you now. That you think he holds you very high in a place of respect and honor, and that when you tell him this you will lose that - you will fall a notch or two, and you will never get it back.

You will get it back, Malena. Because what happens is this: those who confess their problems, and work to resolve them with dignity and purity of heart, and who stick to their plans for success with all that they have end up EARNING respect and honor. THAT kind of admiration is much better than any other kind - EARNED respect and honor is never lost, because it comes much harder, and is held much closer to our hearts.

What I can tell you is that it will not be easy. It will be very hard, and will take focus and determination, and also teamwork. You will have to be strong when he is weak and in pain; he will have to be strong when you are weak and in pain. Sometimes, you will just have to prop each other up.

But you can do this.

One last thing. I very much would rather have had my husband come and tell me, than to have found out the way I did. To have heard devastating news from him in a loving confession would have been much different than having to confront him and beg him for a merciful death in detail after detail because he would not tell me the truth until I pulled it out of him bit by bit over the course of years.

Schoolbus