Hi Jayne,

I have 6 inches of paperwork to file today. I say TODAY since you inspired me. I also have one laundry basket of paperwork and junk/magazines, etc to deal with. If you want to do yours today we could do it at the same time. Then it would not be so bad. I was going to do my paperwork around 12:00 Pacific time. For an hour.

Do you have an hour today that you could begin on yours too? We could make it fun by comparing progress notes when done.

I say this: Lets each set a simple goal and do it. One goal for today!

My goal is to rough file that 6 inch pile of paperwork and then file it in the file drawer in the right folders. If I add the basket of stuff too, it will be too much. That will be tomorrows task.

Do you have one simple sorting goal for today>? (And I dont mean goals like I have had before like "clean the whole house", "Make the room spotless and perfect", "sort the entire house" or anything). Those goals dont work for me. I am an "all or nothing" person and I need to learn to make reasonable, doeable goals.

Do you want to make a reasonable goal for yourself today regarding your room?

Sorry, this is a HUGE trigger for me. I guess since so many ppl seem ok with it, it's not inherently evil, but it's the type of thing my abusive step-father did without warning whenever *anything* was left *anywhere* in the house outside of our bedrooms.

Besides, throwing all this stuff out would be disastrous! We aren't just talking junk mail, not just talking bills that might end up being late. This includes a whole semester's worth of papers - at the end of the semester I go through everything, drag everything out, to make sure I didn't miss anything. Then immediately after, I had a conference I was in charge of - lots of papers related to that, arranging speakers, receipts, etc, then packing for that trip, dragging clothes out to find some suits that fit since I've lost weight. Then right after that conference we had to start packing for the NZ trip - more dragging things out trying to find clothes that fit. Now there's receipts and souvenirs from that trip, etc.

Thanks Stella, I'd love to do this with you!

My (big) goal is to "clean the paper and clutter from the bedroom" but I like your idea to break it down. How's this:

A. assemble FCI data and send to ______.
B. assemble NWAPS materials into binders and send to ___, ___, and ___.
C. assemble grant budget reports, etc. into a binder.
D. assemble course materials and put away.

I will do this by:

1. Remove all clothes: put away, wash, or take to dry cleaners (I got a good start on this yesterday).
2. Take one section of the room at a time, and move the papers from the bedroom into the spare bedroom, sorting them into the categories.
3. Throw the bed sheets in the washer.
4. In the spare bedroom, organize the papers and put into binders and/or file folder.

This will leave just a small amount of clutter still - souvenirs, kids' toys etc, easy to pick up.

If I can get through 1, 2, 3, and 4(A and B) today, I will feel great!

WOW, I am right there with ya but really you are biting off a big chunk Jayne!

Quit doing that! Cut that goal in half!

I know once you get momentum, you can do more.

You can take a box or basket of the paperwork and bring it by the TV tonight and assemble it in a relaxing way, sort of like knitting. I dont hate paperwork, I just hate it when I force myself to do it really fast and I make the job worse than it is.

The kids toys leftover, etc, put in a box and let them sort that one.

I agree with you on the tossing out of stuff. Too much important stuff is mixed in with the other stuff and the clothes. I have rental agreements and deeds to homes mixed in with my paperwork.

I really really love your DETAILED goal list. Let me take your idea and use it for myself. TODAY:

1. Rough file tenant paperwork
2. Then file them in all thier individual files
(I already did an extra task today I cleaned out the fridge.)

TONIGHT:

3. Bring laundry basket full of magazines, and stuff in front of the TV. Have garbage bag ready. Sort it out.

TOMORROW:

1. Put stuff sorted from laundry basket away.


JAYNE, we can do this! I am going to do the filing now. See ya soon...

We went to OfficeMax after the kids' speech therapy, and bought some binders and a banker's box. Also took clothes to dry cleaners. I'm about to start on the first section of the room now, H's side.

Thanks for going through this with me!

Wow, you're inspiring me, Jayne!

Aw no, cat, I don't do nearly as much as you do! Remembering you going through all those boxes for taxes, and doing multiple years of taxes, now that's inspiring!

Well I didn't get as far along as I'd hoped, but the clothes are all put up, away, or washed; several odds and ends are now taken care of: there was broken glass in one of the suitcases - oops - so I'd asked H to carry it out to the garage to dump the glass into the trash bin since my back hurts; I finally carried it to the top of the stairs and he took it from there; also packed away my faulty power adapter for shipping back to Apple; also moved toys back into kids room. I also changed the sheets on the bed.

I got the biggest mess cleaned up on H's side of the bed. There are still a few books and binders in a neat little row, I will move those tomorrow and then proceed to the area at the foot of the bed.

In the meantime I've picked up various items all around.

Ok, quick relationship update:

We rented a camper van and took a road trip in NZ after the conference ended. Spending so many hours sitting in the car together was great for me, for the UA and Conversation - I love it when he's a captive audience! (J/K) The last couple days H wanted to listen to the iPod which was a bit of a bummer for me since I love Conversation, but I'd had a good dose of Conv. the previous few days and H was maybe feeling tapped out.

I managed to have little to no R talk! It was almost always pleasant conv. which I'm sure H appreciated. It seems each evening we'd be getting tired and get lost either trying to find a restaurant or a campsite, and we both snapped at each other about that time. Nothing too serious, and I think we both realize it was due to being tired and hungry and lost.

It was a bad time of the month for me, and nowadays I never can tell when that's gonna happen. It wasn't too bad, there was only one night where we parked at a site with no bathroom facilities. I had to get up once in the middle of the night, and H wasn't gonna come with me but I told him about my post to Hold - why dogs are better than men - cus they will go with you in the middle of the night when camping! And H surprised me by coming along. (Don't worry, I did the environmentally correct, good-camping thing to do.)

Probably the most significant thing is at the end, H asked me what my favorite part of the trip was. He was prolly expecting me to say this sight, or that town, or this activity... I said my favorite part was riding in the car with him and talking. He looked at me genuinely surprised! I think that's the first time he's realized how important conv. is to me.

Ever since then I've noticed several times where he's made an extra effort to talk to me.

Also, at the beginning of the trip I told him I was hoping the trip would be a bonding time for us. There were times where I felt really frustrated and angry, and I withdrew. But then he would put forth a real effort to go beyond his comfort zone in meeting my needs. It might not have been exactly the way I would have chosen, but he got points for trying. For example he may have done some action for me, when what I really wanted was conv. But I did notice the effort, and it was definitely more than it has been in the past, so each time I came out of withdrawal and tried to meet his needs too.

I also tried to make it clear that I accepted blame for stuff also, not blaming him for everything bad in our R. So I guess there was *some* R talk, of the drive-by kind I spose. One sentence at a time, not entire paragraphs.

I think the trip was very good for our M!

I'm still stressed and depressed about moving, about jobs, and about the mess that is our house, but I'm feeling a little better. Thanks for listening!

Jyane, thanks so much for sharing all that! I am so glad that you are finding ways to get your Conversation EN met. Were the kids with you, or was it couple time? How have they been responding to you two getting along better?

Have you guys been able to cut out the snapping altogether now that you're home? Just two friends looking out for each other. I've never had that before in my entire life, so it's a new and exciting dream I have, one that really feels closer and closer. We even have glimpses, like a day without snapping. So cool!

FlyLady links the house clutter and the body clutter, so that when you get rid of one, it frees you to get rid of the other. Thanks for keeping us posted!

The kids stayed home and MIL and FIL came down to stay with them. Now that school's out, I have more time to spend with them and I think that's good. I'm stepping in a bit where H is used to having the final say, but I'm trying to do it respectfully and he's received it well, at least without voicing a complaint. It's hard to be sure he's ok with it cus you know he doesn't talk much. But he's talking more, and I think he'd tell me if he felt I was undermining his authority.

Unfortunately me spending more time with them often means they stay up past their bedtime, but neither of us have to get up to go to school nowadays so isn't making sure *both* kids got to do their fun UA speech therapy homework, worth it?


Yes, we're getting better and better at that. There was one exception yesterday:

Yesterday as we were bringing in groceries, DS6b ran into H who then dropped a brand new bottle of wine which broke. H snapped at DS6b, I backed H up with sending DS6b to his room but then I snapped at H, H snapped back at me, repeat a couple times, then I cleaned up the wine while H put away the groceries. I snapped at him for not helping and H snapped back that I was wearing shoes and he wasn't. I snapped that it wasn't my fault if he takes his shoes off every time he walks in the door (it's a Canadian thing, and I usually do it too but I've stopped being as religious about it as H). He snaps at me to stop whining. Somehow I get a moment of clarity and don't reply. After I finish cleaning it up, he apologizes for snapping, I apologize for whining, and say I'm sorry it happened. I also ask him to apologize to DS6b since if H hadn't been carrying so many things it wouldn't have happened, and it prolly wasn't all anyone's fault. He did so.

It feels like we are handling these disputes much better, with care for the other person instead of trying to hurt each other.

Update on clutter: I've pretty much finished the area by H's side of the bed, and started in on the area at the foot of the bed, and picked up other non-paper things. I'm still not working on it for even an hour at a time. *sigh* since I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, maybe I can handle a longer time period tomorrow. Stella, I'm still working on it!

I feel so much like cat's H as far as clutter goes... Cat, I think it's wonderful how you and my H put up with us organizationally challenged spouses. I can believe that he really wants you to rescue him. Is there a way you can inject some little humor into it, a laugh-at-yourself kind of humor? That goes a long way toward smoothing things over between me and H. (But then again, awhile ago wasn't I wondering if that was actually unhealthy?)

Body clutter - yesterday and today I've eaten more like how I was eating before the trip, so that's good. The ADs are getting back to normal levels too, I'm less depressed and my headache and backache are gone.

BTW ears, thanks for doing damage control when I may be going off the deep end or being less than sensitive on someone else's thread!

I am grateful for the many blessings in my life. And for good friends such as all of you here. Thank you.

Wow, jayne, I didn't realize the trip was just you and H, cool

I think he'd tell me if he felt I was undermining his authority.

What about asking him how he feels about how it's working out?

It feels like we are handling these disputes much better, with care for the other person instead of trying to hurt each other.

Awesome, jayne! What do you think helped you all get to that point?

The snapping, is that like DJs, or mini-AOs? Sounds like DJs? Do you have love busters? I've been looking for my copy for months now. I think the end of the chapter exercise included writing down your partner's DJs, but there was more to it as well. Did you make amends for the snapping? I heard you apologized for the whining part. Did he accept your apology? I think these are important because they reinforce to us that we have choices. We have the power to create the lives we want.

Good for you for the work on the clutter! Does that make love bank deposits for your H, too? Even if not, I'm so happy for you with the self-care.

Jayne, about that other thread, no worries. I didn't think you were out of line at all. Like you said on cat's thread, we all need different things at different times. I piped in because I've written in in State of Conflict too, and I think once I felt validated I calmed down and could identify what I could do.

Jayne, you were on my gratitude list, too, this morning. Thanks for being here!

Well... so much for thinking we're handling disputes better, with care for the other person.

I just had an AO. We are traveling next week to the place where H's job offer is, mostly so I can interview at a couple places. We're trying to set up some childcare or something, for the two days that we will both have meetings. I feel frustrated with getting information from him.

I could *swear* he told me to ask my potential boss for child care suggestions. I was even surprised cus I didn't really want to, but he was in the garage and walking away and it was all I could do to get him to answer me once - no time to verify before he drove away. So I asked. I got a reply, and I've been trying to discuss with him about calling one of the places. He called a couple of the places but wouldn't tell me about them. I don't know where all these places are, and on one day there's only 30 minutes between the time they would be dropped off and when I need to find my way to some room in some building. And I just found out that he has to be somewhere much earlier, and I'm on my own! (We had earlier discussed him driving me and dropping me off- he didn't bother telling me of the change in plans until just today.)

So my potential boss even called the manager of one place for me, and said they could take them. So I feel like we should really go with them, but all H said was he already had something set up for part of the time, not for all... and then he walked away. I tried to tell him that I thought we should use the place suggested to me, since she had gone to all that trouble; he kept walking away. I didn't know whether to call them to take the remaining day, or all the time. I really wanted to talk to H since he knows where he needs to be and when (I don't!!!) and he knows where all these places are, and where we'll be staying, and he's been there and has a better idea how long it takes to drive from one place to another...

I've been doing nothing but writing letters, basically cold-calling for a job, for the past couple weeks! I'm doing this for him, for his dream job, cus there's only two places in the whole frigging world he's willing to work!

I'm sorry, y'all are gonna get all over me... I slapped the breadboard and knocked off the glass plate that goes in the microwave, and it fell and broke (I was emptying the dishwasher). He grabbed me and shoved me a couple of times.

*sigh*

What do I do now?

I have no advice for you jayne,
just [[[hugs]]] and a prayer for wisdom for you.

LD

Thanks LD.

Jayne...

Inhale, exhale.

There have been times when I've gotten so very stressed out because of needing to be somewhere and dealing with childcare issues, when it was easier for me to reschedule the appointment for another day entirely.

Consider doing that so that you can get a better footing first.

Maybe both of you looking for work simultaneously isn't the best way to go. Maybe it would be better to get him settled in and then for you to take your turn. Is that possible?

As far as the slamming stuff around. No, it wasn't good, but neither was the shoving. That concerns me. How do you feel about that? Is this something he's done before?

You may be able to find a glass cutting board that would work in the microwave. I thought I saw some in the Martha Stewart isle in K-mart, but you could call first with your dimensions before you waste the gas. Keep in mind that if there's any rubber on the bottom it will probably will need to come off.

Hang in there. Go and take a hot shower. Drink something comforting. No alcohol.

and later..."Honey, I'm sorry I got so upset and broke the microwave thing. I have a plan for that. I just feel so dismissed when you walk away when I'm talking, and I'm so worried about finding a job. I'm scared about all of this." (And if you ever shove me again, you'll be pulling back bloody stumps.)j/k

(((Jayne)))

Wow. I'm so sorry! That must be scary, especially with all the other stress now.

Maybe waiting would be a good idea. I have found that many people (especially women, as your potential boss seems to be) really 'get' all the hassles of dealing with family and moving and all, if you are just honest with them. And if you ARE honest with them, and they tell you to take a hike, you know you don't want to work with them anyway. Right?

Call this lady up. Ask her if she thinks the opening might still be there after you move. If not, ask her if she can be flexible about when you get in for the interview and explain your unusual circumstances. She sounds like she'll be ok with it.

As for which way to go? No question for me, I'd go with the one the potential boss set up. SHE is the one you are currently trying to impress. If you H doesn't understand that, more's the pity for him. Ask him how he would do it if it were him having to deal with ALL the family's issues (nudge nudge).

Thanks Soolee, cat...

Yes I think I need to breathe and calm down before anything else... I was thinking of reading that article ears mentioned, about how the adrenaline is in your system and affects you for awhile after an AO...

Unfortunately at this point it would look very bad to start canceling these appointments. Plus there's just a small window of time, everything is coming together unbelievably at precisely the right time... right now H's future boss is motivated to help set up these meetings etc - it's all connected, and help with the "trailing spouse" is pretty standard in our field. But once H accepts the job, all that help may disappear.

Yes this has happened before... but both of us are at fault. I'm hot-headed, I tend to start it with an AO. It's the type of thing I grew up with, and I'm sure I start it. He prolly would never do such things if I didn't. I know how this sounds... but it isn't often, and really, I was out of line first.

I'm more mad that he won't frigging talk to me. I want to say "You are a horrible person!" not "I'm sorry." Maybe if I calm down, have a bath and a calming drink like you suggest Sooley, I'll be more rational and willing to apologize.

Thanks cat for understanding why I feel I should use the daycare my potential boss set up. I felt sooooo incredibly frustrated that he wouldn't even discuss that possibility with me!

Jayne, I'm SO sorry that I didn't call the police last year when my H pulled that on me. I don't deserve that, and neither do my kids. If he walked because I need to protect myself, that would've been good to know.

I insisted on immediate MC. He knew I was serious, that I was not going to let this drop. He said I was "making a big deal about nothing;" even told the MC that. His thoughts to own. That DOESN'T belong in my life, and I'm done with that part of my life.

You are protecting him from the very real consequences of his actions. Healthy men don't grab and shove their wives. Men who are fit to be parents don't grab and shove their children's mother. He needs real help, for his sake, your kids' sake, your sake, and the marriage's sake, and you are getting in the way of the consequences.

Were your kids home? LovingAnyway asked me what message I sent them. Basically, I sent them the message that this is what women tolerate in a marriage. That this is acceptable. That I say, that's not okay, but really it is, by my actions. I am so deeply sorry about that.

Jayne, I wouldn't move the family while he's violent. Let him go, join him in a year if he's changed, and you still want to go. You all deserve better.

I know that's easier said than done. Please know that I'm praying for you and your family. You're going to keep getting healthier and stronger, until you're ready to set boundaries to keep you safe.

There was a pattern to when my H bullied and intimidated me, too, when I was least willing to speak up for myself. This is no coincidence.

I am so angry for you, jayne! What support do you have? If you were in IC, what do you think your therapist would say? If you were in MC, what do you think the MC would say? If you were with your mom, what would she say? What would your best friend say? What would your pastor say? Would they say you should apologize and try harder? Would they say they would help you and support you to stand up against this?

What would happen if you rented a hotel room for a week and stayed away?