H totally agrees with many of the parts...meeting needs, love busters, time together...just doesn't think it's the only way to do it. He's working really hard to earn his F, but my question centers on experiences where the MB philosophy as a WHOLE is questioned, not the parts.

If H doesn't really "buy" the complete MB package...would it be fruitless to call the Harleys? We cannot afford more than maybe one session with them (and that will be hard), but if it helped H to see the importance of the issues we are working through, I would try to convince him of its value. I just don't know if it would do any good if he doesn't think that MB is the way to go.

You can look at my story more on my thread, but I just wondered if people have tried the coaching center and had luck "converting" their wayward spouse to the MB way.

My W does not buy into the MB road map either mainly because she does not think A's are all vanilla; she firmly believes our circumstances are unique. I know otherwise.

That being said, you can guide you H to use MB principles without using the jargon. Instead of the terminology, coach him on the concepts they entail. I believe the MB principles are very effective because they break down the necessary steps of recovery with an easy to follow vocabulary and tangible work plan.

That being said, if you can get some coaching from the Harleys, I highly recommended it. I have not experienced it personally but those that have are very satisfied.

- Sh0cked

HTM, can you be specific about which parts he is having trouble with? And exactly what does he feel can be done another way since he doesn't think MB is the "only way?" Maybe if you were more specific we could be be of help.

HTM - can't tell what it is that he doesn't think the MB approach will work to "fix," but the "point" is that he appears to want to retain "control" of the recovery process just as he had control of the adultery process.

My guess is that he doesn't really "buy into" the complete Scripture "package" either.

Is that about right?

It's part of what makes the recovery process so long and not a "quick fix, over and done."

"H totally agrees with many of the parts...meeting needs, love busters, time together...just doesn't think it's the only way to do it."

Of course not. It's, again, a matter of his wanting to be "the one in control who makes the decisions." Just as with God's instruction and commands, they are NOT "suggestions." They are "do them regardless of how you feel" because they will not want to surrender their will to God's will, so why would surrendering to the "MB suggestions" be any more likely to be followed?

imho, faith in, and surrender to, God comes first. Without that, good luck on overcoming the natural human nature to be the "sovereign lord" of one's own life.

God bless.

Hey HTM

Now my Squid is probably the most MB-hostile FWS ever ! She wouldn't read, listen to or research any part of MB.

I was at my wits end.

Fortunately God is smarter even than I am ( yes its true !:) )

He inspired me to start running a MarriageBuidling ministry from our church using MB. Squid reluctantly helped me in both coaching the hurting face to face AND in presenting coaching evenings to many couples.

What happened is that while Squid would put up impenetrable defences to any attempt to make HER understand this stuff, she would leave them absolutely DOWN while I was coaching them to somebody else. She learned just as certainly from the front of the room as the audience did at the back with no threat perceived from her.

Also she chaperoned me in coaching hurting BSs face to face and it allowed Squid to face the brutal consequences of adultery without having to feel "chastised" by ME telling her.

Over time those things have led to Squid's heart turning very greatly. She now applies MB to our marriage, is very repentant and is willing to learn more techniques for improving our marriage.

Now clearly not everybody can or wants to start an MB service, but I think the principle is a good one - if you can find a way to impart the message indirectly to your H it may be more effective than trying to "teach" him past his reluctant defences.

That make any sense ?

I told my W that I did not care what plan we used, but that we were going to follow a plan. It could be MB, or something else that she could find and we could discuss. She of course had no suggestions. Perhaps you could take a similar approach with your WH?

I don't really think its wise to allow a WS to direct the recovery plan. He may not fully believe in the plan, but I bet he'll be very hard pressed to come up with reasonable objections. As FH said, this is about control.

I'm gonna jump over to my single thread. There is too much relating to me here to have two threads.

Mel...I have some answers to your questions over there on Recovery between Work, School, and Soccer?

Thanks for the ideas all.

FH,

I'm not sure where H stands with scriptures. We are both in our infancy with religion. We started going to church together just after d-day. Often, I think he understands his beliefs better than I understand mine. But then again, the scripture didn't stop him from adultery. So why would it now?

I think that H is willing to do anything I ask, but there are "strings attached" that I feel even if he won't admit them. The travel thing is the biggest one. If I say, "I am just not comfortable with you traveling." He is likely to not travel. But then he will make lots of snide remarks about how it is affecting our finances and how he is unable to provide for us because of ME.

Tyk,

I guess I tipped my hand because H knows that most of what I talk about comes from MB. I think he agrees with the basic ideas, just not the constrictions of independent activities. I wonder sometimes if he thinks that he would not cheat again and therefore that my worries are unfounded if he is away. My problem is that he has already shown to be human and susceptible to adultery (as we all are), so given the opportunity...he may fall again.

Bob,

I LOVE that idea. I don't know that anyone would let me "teach" or "counsel" just because I don't have that much experience. But it's worth a shot.

We have a great church that has lots of small groups. We see the counselor there, but he doesn't agree wholeheartedly with MB either. He thinks most of it is great, but like H, sees some of the restrictions as unnecessary and overkill.

I could certainly find out if the church would be willing to let me start a support group for couples struggling through adultery and then we'd host it at our house and H would be an obvious member. I would be a bit nervous taking on such responsibility though...it is so important that couples get the best support in the beginning.

I'll think about it more.

HTM,


Absolutely not! It is part of HIS consequences for HIS CHOICES! Do not accept any of the blame for the consequences of the CHOICE he made. It is a POJA issue and if you are not comfortable with it yet, that is not your fault it is his for inflicting the damage on you in the first place.

Want2Stay

I agree but when I am here having the discussion with H about traveling, it seems to get muddled. He is so good at blame-shifting and I am so good at accepting that blame (we've done it for several years) that I guess I just don't know how NOT to feel responsible.

So when H says "I won't travel until you are ready for me to but it will affect our financial situation," how do I respond? Do I just say, "I'm sorry that your actions created this challenge for us." Do I say to myself, "I am not responsible for your choices."

Our MC talks about how feelings are a choice. He disagrees that I have no control over how I feel about H and travel. I feel like I can try to ignore my anxiousness, but that is no better than before.

Maybe our MC is bunk. He does a great job in so many ways...but on this one he falls short.

HTM,


It is not easy. Especially if this has been a pattern thoughout your M. Just know that you are right. If this is a boundry for you then stick to it and do not accept the blame.


I would say that is exactly how you should handle it. A truly remorseful and repentant FWS would understand the emotional turmoil traveling would cause for you. The two are tied together by his CHOICES not yours. I find great concern that he appears to be trying to control your recovery. It's not up to him, he should be thankful you are giving him the opportunity not trying to dictate what he is willing to do to help you heal from the wounds he inflicted.


Your MC is actually right to an extent with this line of thinking. Feelings do follow actions. Where he is falling short is that because of your H's choices traveling and the A are tied together. No one can blame you for the feelings you have over the most traumatic experience of you life. Besides, if you stuff how you feel about your H traveling and agree to it, it will begin to foster resentment in you for your H forcing you to accept it.

Just state your boundry and stick to it.

Want2Stay

HTM - just an "offhand" question, or would you sincerely like to know the answer?

Here's a "hint," it involves true Love.