This explains why Plan A is not intended to be longer than 6 weeks with women. Plan A actually causes DAMAGE if conducted too long. It was NEVER intended to be a way of life for conflict avoiders.

And to answer your question: "Re: Is there any hope????" No, I have no hope if you continue doing what you are doing. I would call it pretty hopeless.

I would have to agree with Mel.

As long as there is crying, begging, pleading, blaming, and all the DRINKING...there is no hope.

I have to wonder though...why you would want to be involved with all this drinking stuff. There doesn't seem to be any responsible behavior taking place.

I am no prude, and I enjoy going out with friends...I even enjoy a drink now and then...here comes the BUT...

BUT...there seems to be an awful lot of barring, drinking, driving under the influence, and police involved in your life. Are you really ok with all this drama???

Is this any way to live????

committed

what I am saying is...

hell I don't know !

no, I am saying what about detaching for the most part. Like not making up exuses to call him just to see where he is or what he is doing. Not talking R talk. Not questioning him anymore. Not pursuing him. Just letting things be...

If he asks me there, I go, maybe...If he calls me, I talk to him...If he talks, I listen...if he initiates sex, I follow...If he's working here, I help where I can...like this weekend...

Friday night he took N14 to town with him. They went to his Sister's. I left her with him till about 8pm. I got there, they had a fire and were sitting around yaking. Everyone asked me to stay so I did. H was pretty drunk so it was pretty easy to stay detached from him. He went to leave, I asked him if he wanted N21 and I to take him home, he said no, I said okay. He left. About 15 min later he called me. Asked if I was still there, told me he would be back up in a few min. with the bike, I said okay, he said I'm bringing the bike, I said okay. And we hung up. (just trying to get a rise out of me, didn't work). About 15 min later he calls again. Asked me if I was coming down to his place, I said what for, he chuckled and said I don't know, if you want to, I said I don't know, he said well whatever, he said well I'll be back up there in a little bit. He must have passed out then. I stayed for awhile longer then went home.

Next morning, my emotions got me again, I wanted to talk to him. Called him at 8 (my bad) he was still sleeping. I said sorry, your still sleeping so I'll talk to you later, and hung up. I took a shower, put my best duds on, got stuff for breakfast and went in to his place. He actually was glad to see me. We talked, we had good sex, we talked some more, I made breakfast. I suggested him, BIL, kids, nephews, all come out and BBQ, campout, and stuff at the farm that night. He thought be a good time too, said he'd say something to BIL and let me know. Then he went fishing with BIL and I came home. I didn't hear from then so called him around 5:30. Just asked if they were going to come out. He yea thought maybe, but he was at his cousins, on the bike. He'd be around in hour or so. Okay I was just wondering. Well I hadn't heard from anyone else and knew he probably wouldn't be back to town for awhile so I cooked for me and the girls, put in a movie and was calling it a night. No big deal, was tired anyway.

8:30 he calls. He just got home. We talked awhile, about just stuff. He had said at one point, he didn't have anything out to cook. I had told him I had BBQ'd for me and the girls. I finally said, well do you want me to bring you in some food. He said, yea if you want to.

I went in he ate. We watched TV. Talked and laughed a little. He fell asleep and I was going to go home. He asked me to stay. I did. He even kissed me that night. First time in over a year...

Yesterday he came out to disc. I took him lunch and then used his pickup to help his N move. He hung out later while I finished mowing so he could take the mower home. When he left he told me thank you for all my help today. I said no problem.

What I am saying is...I know this takes time. I know that we BOTH have alot of healing and work to do. He still claims to be glad to be on his own, but at the end of the night he calls. No matter what happens between us we keep going back around to being together. He keeps saying he just wants to get along, maybe he says that because deep inside he wants that to lead to us getting back together. I know he needs time...I do to...but a little "good" contact during that time, does that hurt...well yea it does, but I let that happen...because I always want more, I expect way more than he can give. I also know that it is a good possiblilty that he is just using me to keep away from OW. But at least she is gone, for now any way...if she comes back, well that's different.

I know many of you don't understand why I am still doing what I am doing. We never had a story book M. That's okay. It worked for us, for over 20 years. And we were happy till this hit. Never wanted anything more. I want to someday R with my H. With changes, but it'll never be like most M. That's not us. I will not sacrifice my happiness to R with my H. I will not do what I am doing forever. I will not settle for just having him for sex, money, and companionship whenever He feels like it. BUT maybe it's what has to be to get there. To get him through this MLC. Maybe there is still love in his heart for me, but all he has to give me right now is what I am getting. No it's not enough, but for now, that's all there is...In time, I think that'll change. Maybe I'm wrong.

My goals for the week...

I will not call him

I will not go see him

I will spend my time with the girls, at work, have legal stuff to work on.

We'll see what happens...

Thanks for listening...

Is your husband an alcoholic?

You have beat her up twice and are now facing prison because of this affair. And you don't know if you should even go into plan B? ARe you a STUPID WOMAN? Can you not see that this affair has caused you to lose your MIND? Can you not SEE WITH YOUR OWN EYES what this affair is doing to your emotional health? What ARE you doing??

Your children have already lost their dad to alcoholism and his adulterous affair, and at this rate, they will also lose their MOTHER to the PRISON SYSTEM. You might get off with a light sentence this time, but what about NEXT TIME, TOH? As time goes on you get crazier and crazier. The next time she may not survive. She may end up dead.

Do you realize that if you go to prison that there is NOTHING STOPPING THE OW FROM MOVING INTO YOUR HOME AND TAKING YOUR PLACE?

TOH, you are making a BAD situation 100x worse and selfishly allowing your anger to endanger your childrens family. You are a GROWN WOMAN who does not have the luxury of acting on your angry feelings. The only solution is to REMOVE YOURSELF from the situation that is making you so angry.

It is not ENOUGH to not talk to him for a week. That is ridiculous and you know it. The dyke has broken and you are getting out band-aids. GEt an attorney, file for divorce and get your finances protected. Get him OFF your property so you dont have to EVER SEE HIM. And most of all, stop DRINKING.

My friend, you are playing with fire, and it is time to wake up and start using some SANITY here. You don't have the LUXURY of being insane when you have CHILDREN who need you.

I just read this whole thread from top to bottom and am just in SHOCK. The most shocking thing is that you, TOH, have been driven so INSANE from his affair that you are facing PRISON for assault and what is your solution??? To "not call him this week!!" :thud:

ya think maybe Dr. Harley, a clinical psychologist with 35 years experience with adultery might have a point here??

Dr. Willard Harley, Jr:


Ya think?? :eek:

Thank gawd....the voice of reason shows up.

I also read this entire thread....had a post all ready to submit...and realized that it would probably fall on deaf ears.

I see so many dangerous things in these posts...and they aren't ALL coming from her WS.

The drinking and police involvement in my life would be too much to bear. But, I get the feeling that this has been the "norm" since the beginning.

I am aghast that her assaults on someone are seen as someone else's fault also.

This is truly a world of blame shift. Just like her WS has ALWAYS been 100% responsible for HIS affair.

This poster is 100% responsible for her assault on the OW. Doesn't matter.

I get ticked off at people...it doesn't give me the right to go into their homes and beat them.

CHOICES...it is all about CHOICES...and personal integrity.

You try and talk some sense into her Mel. She isn't seeing the forest for the trees.

committed

no my H is not an alcoholic...well if any of you knew anything about alcoholism, you'd know that no one can decide that for them for one, for two, H has NEVER drank like he has in the last year, now I see it as a problem, but again that is not for ME to decide.

cops have NEVER been the norm in our lives, never been involved until the last year. I have never even had a parking ticket. On Sat May 4th I lost my cool! I screwed up and made the biggest mistake of my life! It has and will cost me dearly! I have jeopordized my future as well as my girl's. MY FAULT 100%! I have never claimed any different. And your right, it doesn't matter what the circumstances were leading up to this...but bottom line is...if my H was not seeing this woman while we are still M, NONE of this would ever had happened. You can explain it any other way, but the bottom line still comes out the same. I did what I did, It was wrong, I had NO right, I take FULL responsibilty for ME!!

But even after all that has happened. All that H has put me and our girls through, all the damage and hurt I have caused. Feelings don't change. Hopes for the future don't change. Love does not stop. I still have faith that my H is in there somewhere. Nothing changes the fact that I want to be here for him when/if he ever comes out of this MLC. I can't give up on him. Does that make me a stupid woman? Does that make me a bad person?

My H and I are going through the same things as many of you except that deeper past issues of our childhoods, our up bringings, have come back during this MLC to rear their ugly heads, it doesn't make us bad people. It didn't make our M bad or wrong. Those issues have been left in the past until today.

My H refuses to talk about or face his demons from the past. That is what is driving him now. Causing him so much pain and turmoil. It is easier for him to blame me and call it something else than to face them, deal with them, and try to heal from them. Keep on running...

I can't give up on him...

I'll let Mel speak for herself, but she knows plenty. I would bet, on this subject, she knows more than you.

TOH, you keep bringing up MLC. I'd say the majority of people go through a MLC, but they all don't move out and have A's. It's an excuse. And I'd also say that childhood issues can determine how we handle situations, but they also don't cause us to have A's either. Many folks here have horrid childhoods, like sexual abuse, physical abuse and they aren't running around having A's.

You are right in that your WH doesn't want to deal with reality for whatever reason. It's all about him right now...he doesn't want to face his demons...it's cowardly and you allow yourself to be part of it.

No one here can make you do a darn thing that you don't want to. We can only tell you what we know about infidelity and how to get through it. What works and what doesn't. What you are cemented in isn't going to be successful in recovering a healthy M, or a healthy YOU for that matter.

I hope you will consider this.

The plans that have been explained to you allow you to fight for your WH. They are not "giving up" plans. I wish you could see that.

If your WH is an alcoholic, then the MB principles will not work on him. You cannot Plan A an alcoholic or any other addicted individuals. The addiction MUST be addressed and under control for MB to work. So even if he doesn't admit it, this is something you need to determine.

Yes, I can decide. And so can you. A person is an alcoholic based on REALITY, whether or not they admit it. Many alcoholics never admit it, does that mean they are NOT alcoholics? Of course not, that would be silly.

Anyway, I don't see any way we can possibly help you if you continue to follow your own misguided feelings and reject any sound advice. Your best thinking has led you to beat up a woman twice, resulting in felony charges. Your best thinking is leading you to PRISON. Maybe you aren't the best counsel?

Yes...I'm still here.

Update...

Last weekend I spent alot of "good" time with H so of course this week was pretty tough on me. But better than before. I am really working on the detachment thing with your advice and my C's. She tells me this week that "what other choice do you have? You still love him, your not ready to move, your not ready to see others, your not ready for D. So give him time, continue to feed him with small spoonfuls, live YOUR life, and see what happens."

God is working in my sitch I think. The highway to town has been closed all week because of flooding. So H has not been here much at all and I have not been to town. I talked to him some on the phone but very little of that too. He came out on Friday to check fences and cows, I was at work. He ended up hanging out in the house for awhile with N14. Laid on the floor with my dog, and took a nap. They ate pizza and watched a movie then cleaned up the yard. He came out yesterday to help me put shingles back on roof (from storm), cut my downed apple tree, and he finished planting beans. He was here from 9 am to 5:30. He sat in the living room in between runs to the field. (first time for that since xmas, usually stays in the kitchen). He left and I went to a birthday party with friends and had a good time.

Both girls went in yesterday to stay with him a couple of days because of hwy closing. D16 has to work and N14 wanted to get out of the house. N14 went to the movie last night. Around 9:30 D calls says she can't find N. Long story but she went to N's house that lives down street from H. H had not went home, he stopped in town on way of Detour at his cousins, and they ended up in the bar. I talked to him when N was missing he said he was going home, soon as we found her he called N and asked if N14 could stay the night with her and he stayed at the bar. I was angry but they were safe and thought what good would it do to argue, so said nothing. He was very apologetic on the phone though, said "I know, I f*cked up" this is not like him, he normally would be defensive, angry and we would argue. It didn't go that way at all.

Anyway today the three of them spent the day together. First time in a long time. I pray that it went well for them all.

Things seem different...I just don't know if it's good or more bad

I don't know, it sounds like his drinking is causing problems to me. I would watch that closely.

Arranging family schedules while sitting in a bar is a bad sign.

yes believer, I know...I am very worried about his drinking and it really getting a hold of him. Maybe it is too late and it already has. But something else I have no control over. And another obsticle that would have to be overcome in order to R. I will not again live in a world I grew up in with all the drinking that my father did. I can't. Maybe it's all too unreachable. Maybe I am just wishing on impossible wishes...

Thought I would drop a line because your thread struck a cord with me. I had an alcoholic stepfather and I know how that disease can slowly destroy a family.
The main point is I have been in a serious Plan B for the past 18 mo. and she has shown no evidence of waivering. Plan B does make it easier though because it does give you a chance to detach and get right with yourself. She says she stil loves me but because she does not feel that spark and her interest in another man demonstrated to her that there was something wrong with our marriage. I still hold slim hopes for us but have just about come to a viable separation agreement. My three DD are great the two teenagers know what she did and still love their mom but they have made it clear they want nothing to do with the other man. They have been so supportive and surprisingly protective of me. No easy way to say it but its tough, to carry on, I have read all the stories of Pittman and Glass and Harvey, that the affair will weaken and it has because she spends very little free time with OM who is her boss other than work hours. She is very committed to her kids and spends a good portions of her evenings with them. I have made it clear that I do not want to make small talk, be her buddy or co raiser of the kids. She can pickup and drop the kids off but I have no interaction with her in person, she thinks I 'm being mean. Only contact is through emai for scheduling. Its a long road and to tell you the truth before the affair she went through a year of hell watching her mother die from ovarian cancer. This I belive was one of the major causes, but yes we were truly in a stage of poor communication and competiveness in or marriage. I do not know if she is even the same person anymore if she came to me and said she wanted to try again. But I am moving on and becoming comfortable with my new life. All I can say is and I hope this is true for me also that you will know when it is time to truly give up and move on, until then plan B does provide a bearable path through the minefield you have been dumped into.
Take Care: jacko