Ok, a little back story:

WH left on 4/19/08 after I found a text message from a girl that he worked with and asked him to stop speaking with her. He had left on 4/9/08, but came back on 4/11/08 to work things out. For the first three or four days, things were great, except he kept saying that he wanted to die, etc, etc. Then one morning he woke up and he was fine....except he began acting colder to me. Needless to say he was in contact with her again and back at work (he didn't go to work for those first few days). When I found the message he got up to leave and I asked him if that was it, was he done. He said no he just needed time to think. About 30 minutes later he called me to let me know that yeah he was done. After checking the cell phone records, I saw that he had talked with her that entire time. So, instead of thinking he talked with her and decided to leave.

Since that time crazy things have gone on. He stayed with her for a couple weeks until she moved back to her parents house an hour away (she is 19). He has denied the entire time that there was anything physical going on between them, but I know better. I exposed to her family, his family, employer, everyone. To no avail, they haven't seen each other awhile, but they still speak regularly and on the phone, even now.

WH still says that he doesn't love me and hasn't in a long time. That the only reason he stayed was because of the kids. I have two from a previous relationship, one with him and another with him that is on the way. He says that our relationship wasn't working, but of course, I had no idea about that!!! So many things happened before he left, so many things were said and he now says that they were all lies, or he was trying to convince himself, or he didn't believe that sh*t (his word not mine) would go down.

I wrote a no contact letter and gave it to him awhile ago. I've been very bad at enforcing no contact. So, I let him know again and I've not seen or spoken to him in almost a week. I did receive a message on myspace today but I haven't replied back and don't plan to. It's very, very hard for me because I'm not someone who just sits back and does nothing and that is almost how this feels. I understand the concept of Plan B and Im learning to embrace it, but it's very, very difficult. He tries to contact me in some fashion nearly everyday. *sigh*

Anyway, I thought I would start this thread, give a little background, and hopefully get some support and advice. The support and advice that I have gotten so far has been wonderful and invaluable and I appreciate every bit of it.

-BLW- (I was Ayane but I changed my name)

Hi BLW,

You're right. It is really hard. Glad to hear you are staying strong with B because it really is for the best. It gets easier with time. I was told that I would start to feel much better after 3 weeks and it would steadily improve. And...lo and behold! I DID!!

Been uphill ever since.

I'm sorry you are experiencing this situation but you are in the right place at MB.

Mine did the same thing, A with a coworker. She is 18 years younger than him. "Ewwwww!" says I. (And several others. LOL!)

Hang in there and keep posting. For a while there I was posting every day, sometimes numerous times. There's always someone around here to help you keep your chin up!

Take care,

Charlotte

It's all FogSpeak. All WS's say stuff like that. It's in the script. WS's are vile, hurtful creatures, and the reason you're in Plan B is so that you won't hear any of that stuff.

It sounds like he's trying to penetrate your plan B by contacting you all the time. What are you doing to insulate yourself from contact?

What are you doing for you?

Lots of people go into plan B thinking that it will change their WS and make them come home. Plan B doesn't usually work that way. What you're really doing is waiting for your WH to fall so far and get so miserable that he has to Wake Up. (As he becomes miserable, he will look around for someone to blame. The BS is most convenient which is why you want to be safely isolated in your plan B). Emphasis on waiting.

So, while you're waiting, what are you doing for you? What are you doing to keep yourself occupied and your mind off what is happening with your WH? What are you doing to take care of yourself when the roller coaster goes down (which happens a lot at the beginning of Plan B)?

I don't answer the phone when he calls or I have my daughters answer. If he bugs them to speak to me I take the phone and hang up. Now, that he has sent me messages on myspace under another name, I've changed that. He knows that he can call my mom if he needs to say anything important. The only thing that is bad about my Plan B is that my mom isn't a good filter, she tells me all that he says and my MIL and friends call to let me know stuff all the time. I've told them that for now I don't want to hear it and they did good for a few days, then they called again and I can't stop myself from listening. I just need to buck up and tell them repeatedly.

What am I doing for me? Nothing really. I'm getting ready for the baby and hanging out with my kids. I sleep a lot because I'm always tired. I work a part time job. I play a lot of video and computer games and read a lot. That's about it. I don't know what else I want to do. I was going to go back to school, but I had decided to move back home (350 miles away) and thought that would be pointless (school here) if I'm moving so soon. I'm waiting to hear from my doctor and a job that I really want that called me out of the blue before I make my definite decision. Other than that....I'm not really doing a lot.

I wish you lived close to me. I'd come play video games with you and your kids, too. I love video games. I got a kick out of my friend's young son and grandson, both under 10 around Christmas. They thought I was way cool for an "old lady" because we busted out my 64 and played Banjo Kazooie and Donkey Kong.

Ah, those wonderful video gaming days of yore.......sigh.......

Yes, I have to admit I love my old Mario games even though I don't play them as much as I used to.

Ugh, WH just called and is talking to kiddos. I should go to a different room. *sigh*

Ugh, WH is trying to pull out all the stops to get us not to move. Manipulating the kids, attempting to pull at my heart strings by using the kids, and all of that. It's a sad thing when he was all for it when we first separated and knew that I would move when he left.

Hey BLW,

Just wanted to stop in & let you know I'm reading & to encourage you to stay DARK! Yes it's hard but what's worse is "sneaking" a listen to a kid's phonecall here & letting someone leak info there. INSIST people don't share pointless drivel with you, let them know that it is detrimental to your mental health, it's SO TRUE.

Did you write a PBL? With a clear path home? Keep posting here. It's been 5 months for me and there are GREAT moments and very, very low moments. Stay busy, and refuse to let yourself get sucked in. You can do it, and while nobody else gets it, be assured you're doing what's best for YOU and, if it's to survive, your marriage.

Signed,
~Julie
<<Still reeling after an accidental encounter a week ago today. Gotta get back on track>>

Ouch! That hurt but you're right. A lot of times I still just want to hear his voice. I know the longer that I do it, the easier it will get.

Yes, I wrote a PBL and he knows what he needs to do to come home, he just doesn't want to do it.

I'm getting better though, not quite as emotional as I was, though I do have my days here and there.

Have things gotten easier for you during the time you have been in Plan B?

It wasn't meant to hurt, but to help you see. And, no coddling - just reality even if it's harsh. Sometimes we need others to help us see what we are doing...TO OURSELVES!!! I know, first hand.

Truly, you're only one week in. So don't be too hard on yourself. But keep in mind too that even just listening or peeking out the window or even smelling a shirt lying around will land you right back at Square One. Square One The LAST place you want to go.


YES, emphatically yes!! I made it 3 full months before we went to court, where I did see him, but no contact was made...in fact, H wore sunglasses! The poor baby. <rollseyes> Some of the things he said there really hurt though, and it was probably a full week before I was OK with ME again. Then, a week ago today, we saw each other cuz my son went missing & REALLY scared us all...but H got rather loud & insistent that "this is done, no more, we need to talk & we're goona do it now". In the name of preventing a scene or the unknown, I agreed & we entered *our* house (that he hasn't lived in for 5 mos) & "talked" for 4 hours! Nothing was accomplished, but BOY did I get sucked in - at one point I heard myself trying to convince him to love me more than the bar scene & his loser-a$$ friends. Mainly we argued the same argument we've argued for YEARS, and he still won't quit. Wants me to talk to him, doesn't want to use IM, he needs me in his life, wants to hear my voice once in a while, we just need to be able to discuss the kids, we don't need to talk any "us" stuff (ouchie!) blah - blah - blah. I entertained a few more conversations w/him for the rest of the week & into the weekend as IM was out of town & I wanted to perform my own experiment w/contact despite being told NOT to. (I'm so stubborn!) I wanted him to have a good memory of me this time (one thing he didn't have before initial Plan B on 1/9/08) During our last "conversation"...HE WAS OUT DRINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GAH, anyhoo, this time I'm still reeling & one of the best chicks EV-AH assures me it'll be a couple weeks before I'm back on track. So, THANK YOU for your post cuz in sharing this with you, I'm reminded of why I, too, need to stay DARK. I don't need this crap. I need my sanity.

Yeah I've heard that one quite a bit. The whole "we have to be able to talk because of the kids"....

No we don't. There is nothing really to say. My kids are old enough to talk with him on their own and make decisions about when they want to see him or run it through me (at least the oldest two). I understand the need to be dark, I'm just afraid that by doing so, he'll find someone else to talk about everyday things with. He was calling me to talk about everyday stuff, until recently. We would talk several times a day. Is this a normal BS feeling when they first go dark>?

You know, BLW, he just might do that. This was a fear of mine too, as I always considered my H a flight risk - throughout our marriage. So, what if he does find someone else to talk to? Heck, what if both of our Hs hop into bed w/someone else? Well, first of all, I won't know about it cuz I am WAY too dang busy for the nonsense, and second, what if?? Will that hurt me MORE than I'm hurting right now? Will it make me want him more? Need my bills paid differently? Nah, I figure, if he takes it there, so be it - it won't be me & I'm quite the catch, so...what-ev. Plus, hopping into bed w/someone is quite easy - I mean let's face it, we could all go that route. But you see, I want something BETTER and that may or may not include my H.

"We have to talk for the kids" is BS. We have to talk cuz he still wants me under his thumb. It is CRAZY to him I'm no longer under his thumb! He can walk out, and I DON'T beg him to stay. He can call the house, and I won't answer, maybe the kids won't either, cuz we're living the current H-less life that H has chosen for us. Ah, well.

Listen, no more talking several times a day. I don't know about you, but last weekend when I was playing nicey-nice in my attempt to prove my Scorpion-huntin' friend wrong, I felt gross. I WANTED the dark back! I was putting myself under his thumb and THAT is stupid! I was stooping to his delusional level.

Having a good support system is so very important. Each time I've wanted to call H I called my Fire (ant) Chief & she talked me down from the ledge. I love a good conflict & I can negotiate with the best of them, but each time I got some sense knocked into me, NONE of my great ideas were worth throwing myself under the bus.

We can do this...

You know what? You're right. I'm quite the catch too, even very, very pregnant! I could go hop into bed with anyone I wanted, but that is way too easy and plus, I don't know if I would want to put up with another guy's crap....ugh!

My WH does want to be able to control the situation and I think it really bothers him that he can't and that gives me some kind of crazy pleasure LOL. That I am bothering him in some way when he has made me feel that how I made him feel was the only bad thing in his new life. Hmmm....like believer told me in my other thread, before I started this one. Things aren't all great and wonderful in his life and it will only get less wonderful.

Right now, I've been down because it seems like he has it so easy. He gets to live with his parents and have no bills, while I'm only working part time and I'm getting stuck with all of them. He can go do whatever he wants at any time, while I cannot because 1. I don't have the money and 2. I have the kids. BUT, in the long run the kids will respect and care for me more for the time and effort that I have put into loving and caring for them while they will have less respect and less love because of the things he has done and how UN hands on he has been with them. I mean, he won't even know his first born son, which is sad. *sigh* So, I can look at it in a negative light or look at all the wonderful things that I DO have and will have....I definitely want to do the latter.

Hang in there and keep being a good mom. No wonder you are tired, pregnant with three kids and a husband who has run amok.

His parents aren't doing him any favor by letting him cruise with no responsibilities and live with them. Oh, well.

I say rest up and play video games. Plan B gets to be boring with no contact or drama. But it will help you to heal and get strong. You are doing a good job.

I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow and I'm excited to see what he has to say. Hopefully, everything will be okay. I think it will be unless I've dilated or thinned out more.

I keep thinking about what Lexxxy said in the other post about not knowing my power. What did she mean by that?

Anyway, attempting to go completely dark. No talking with MIL or anyone else about WH. No sitting in the same room while kiddos talk to him and trying to only give myself certain times to think about any of this stuff. At least I have some good games and good books to read. Hopefully, I will get this new job or the okay to travel to my mom's for a few weeks to keep me even busier. When I get bored, I think too much. He11, I think too much anyway. FIL and WH have always told me that I overanalyze and overthink EVERYTHING.

I don't know what Lexxxy meant, but she is very smart. There was a story in SAA about a BW who moved out of town through. She moved with the kids and left her hubby and the OW.

Oops - It was in one of the letters on the home page here -

This past Summer, my husband of 14 years confessed he had been having an affair with a woman from work for the past two years. He contemplated leaving me and our two children many times but could not bring himself to do it. He claims he loves us and cares about us but he is not in love with me.

Our love relationship started going down hill after having our children with all the pressures of family life. But it didn't really get bad until after he started the affair. Our power struggle has always been him not having enough sex, and me not having enough affection. We recently read your book, His Needs, Her Needs, and agree that we were both at fault.

The logic of it all is easy to see but my husband is seeing everything from an emotional view, he feels love for her and he doesn't feel love for me. He has not been seeing the other woman even though they work at the same place and I believe he is sincere about it. We have been just riding it out until our emotions start to level out but we are both growing impatient.

I have suggested counseling but my husband is reluctant because he says he knows what his feelings are. I asked him, "If we could restore the intimacy we once had, would he want to stay with me?" He said, "Yes." My husband is a truly wonderful person with qualities that are had to find. I love him more than anything and the last thing I want is for him to move out; but the tension is so high. Sometimes we do relax and have a great time but that seems to scare him and he gets depressed and withdraws again.

Right now I feel like the only way to win his heart back is to separate for awhile. It would mean that the kids and I would have to move back to my family, out of state, in the meantime. He feels that would be unfair. He doesn't want his life disrupted like that. He wants to have access to his children. The move would be really hard on all of us but I cannot stand thinking I will have to live in our home with all our memories without even having the love and support of my family. My real question is would counseling help at this point considering his emotional state or am I better off letting him find out what his real feeling are for me by separating?

I don't want another marriage to end up in divorce because of a communication problem. But my husband feels the love is too long gone to get it back.

W.M.



Dear W.M.,
As you know from having read my book, I advise your husband to never see his lover again. He must move to another job and possibly to another state before he can reconcile with you. Otherwise, he will continue to love her and be unable to resist seeing her from time to time. Even if your marriage improves, he may never be able to overcome his feeling of love for this other woman unless he stops seeing her.

But, from your description, he is unlikely to accept my advice -- at least at this time. All of his talk about the way he "feels" proves that he is addicted to his lover. So I recommend a three step plan to you.

The first step is to be the very best wife you can possibly be. Do everything you can to meet his needs, and don't do anything to upset him. Set a period of time that you think you can do this without getting too upset, say, six months. Once in a while, tell him that you think both of you need a fresh start somewhere else.

If he does not respond to your kindness and respectful suggestions within that period of time you're ready for the second step: pack up yourself and your children and move near your family and friends for their support. It should be far away from his lover -- another city or even another state. Have absolutely nothing to do with him. Don't talk to him, don't see him.

If you are forced to say something to him, tell him that you love him and hope he can free himself from the addiction of his affair. Let him know that the only way you will consider restoring your relationship with him, is for him to quit his job and move to where you are. From there you will start life over again. Be certain that your words and tone of voice communicate your care for him, not your anger.

Your husband is not likely to follow you right away after you've given him his ultimatum. He will try to develop a relationship with his lover first. But in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't work out because he needs both you and she. She meets some of his needs and you meet others. He will discover how much he misses you when he is with her.

In the event that he stays with his lover and he does not come back to you, you avoid untold sorrow trying to reach a man who is in love with another woman. As you wait for his decision, it is very important to surround yourself with your family and friends as you go through this crisis. In the end, if he chooses his lover, the experience will be much harder on him than on you.

If he eventually agrees to your terms, you begin the third step, which is to start again with a new commitment to meet each other's needs and avoid Love Busters -- in a new location.

At first, he will be depressed because he misses his lover. He goes through a grieving process that usually lasts a few weeks. For some, it takes as long as a year to overcome, but this is quite rare. His affair is an addiction, and the withdrawal from his lover, puts him into a very painful emotional state. If he calls his lover on the telephone, or inadvertently sees her, the clock is set back to zero, and the period of withdrawal begins again. That's why he must avoid all contact with her for the rest of his life.

After the period of withdrawal has ended, he will open his heart to you and give you a chance to meet his need for sex, and other needs his lover met. He will also learn to meet your needs, particularly your need for affection. You will have an opportunity to build a new lifestyle together, one that fits your needs so well that it will affair-proof your marriage.

When the ordeal is over, you will both know what a marriage should be -- what yours could have been, right from the beginning.











Most Popular Links
• The Marriage Builders&#65533; Discussion Forum
• How to Survive Infidelity
• The Most Important Emotional Needs
• Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
• Coping with Infidelity:
Part 1 - How Do Affairs Begin?
• A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
• Love Busters
• The Emotional Needs Questionnaire
• Q&A Columns
• The Policy of Joint Agreement





Worth Looking Into

That was so dead on. Except that the husband there cared enough to not leave them.

I got the okay from the doctor to go down there for a few weeks. I seem to be doing okay now. BUT, I have to get the situation with the accident taken care of before I go anywhere. I'm selling my WH's favorite thing that we bought together....our 61 inch hdtv. LOL, certainly I can get enough from that to pay for repairs and I don't need it. Yeah looks pretty and all that, but I don't have to have it. So....he shouldn't have deserted his family and everything in his home.

I read a "Dear Abby" when I was quite young that I still remember to this day. A woman wrote in about the Porsche she'd bought her husband for his birthday.

The ad read (something to the effect of): Red Porsche (whatever year, fairly new at the time though) $50. She called asking if it was a mistake & was told no, feel free to come take a look. When she arrived the woman explained further. She was going thru a divorce. Her husband was being a real jerk, not working with her on anything, leaving her to handle all the formalities. They determined they'd sell everything & after hounding him about the stupid Porsche he finally told her, "just get what you can for it & give me the money" And so she did!



SOOOOOOooo..........how about I send you $50 & you send me the TV? I think we'll both be happy then.

Haha that is a good one. I might just have to take you up on that if I don't get any other offers

WH just called to talk to the girls and I left the room (no sneaking today Julie lol). DD5 was the only one awake and he said not to wake the other two, but he had her ask me if I could meet him somewhere afterwork. I just had her say, "call Nana", which is my mom and intermediary. He wanted to speak with on the phone also, but I wouldn't take it and I left the room again so that she could speak with him.

Unless he wants to talk about fixing things, I have nothing to say. *sigh* It's difficult when he goes through the little one though....I did hear her say as I was leaving the room, "I haven't seen you in a long time Daddy", and it just broke my heart. How could his not be hurting?

I think going on an extended vacation is a good thing for me right now. DD12 is being a first class brat, with attitude and questions and more attitude. I'm done listening. *sigh* And I have several more years to go through this, not to mention two more girl!!!!

Cleaning up the house and getting things thrown away and packed away. Cam across shirts, shoes, and boxers of my WH's. That sucked, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I'm keeping the shirt for my son, so he can cuddle up to some piece of his dad while he is a baby.

Anyone else want to share some wisdom about how to deal with a mouthy 12 year old girl who thinks she knows everything and is so worried that her sisters will get something that she doesn't. At this very moment, she is complaining because her sister is picking up their bathroom, including cleaning the toilet, and she has to do dishes. If I had given her the bathroom, she would be complaining about that. I want to buy her a gag or buy myself some ear plugs.