Here is a topic I started in another area and it was suggested to me to move it over here. Any help and suggestions I get would be greatly appreciated!

och84
Junior Member


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 7 My husband and I have been married for 4 and a half years. In the beginning everything was great for both of us. Then we ran into some debt related issues which have since been resolved. At about the same time as the debt issues he became less affectionate sexually and continued on a downward spiral until now... he basically only cares about himself. This has been going on for about 2 years now.

I honestly can't even remember the last time he kissed me! When he initiates there are only 2 things that he wants/is willing to do. He wants me to go down on him and then he wants intercourse, but through the back door... When I initiate and try to get him to do the things I want, he says he will only do the 2 that I mentioned above. When I asked him why he says that he knows I can't get pregnant that way (we do not have kids yet), then I'll remind him that I'm on birth control and use it correctly, and he says it's just to be extra safe. But the thing is that I'd be happy if he would at least use his hands or mouth, but he refuses and says he just doesn't like it! Once I asked him to return the favor by going down on me and he said only if I shaved... So I did, and then his excuse was that he just doesn't like doing it.

It just doesn't make any sense because before all of the debt happened he did everything and anything to make me happy, now nothing. I have read pretty much all of this site and I'm sure I'm meeting his EN's and this is the only one of mine that isn't being met, other than this issue we are happy together and we don't fight... What can I do??? I'm really getting tired of feeling so frustrated about this. It's getting to the point that my mind wanders, not that I'd ever act on it because I love my husband so much, but I don't want to keep having these thoughts and feelings, HELP!

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#2072262 - 06/12/08 08:43 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: och84]
ears_open ears_open
Member


Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 4456 Welcome to MB! Are you familiar with the Basic Concepts? I encourage you to try again the thoughtful request and negotiation. POJA means you don't set your partner up to gain at your expense. That harms you both, and the marriage. At the same time, stay connected by eliminating all the the other LBs and doing small things to meet his top ENs that you are enthusiastic about, like bringing him ice water when he's out on the porch if it's DS, or calling him when you leave work if it's Conversation. These things will totally transform your marriage to where you can work together to find the win-win solutions. Are there any LBs that you are struggling with?

My H and I had one-sided relations for years and years, too. He had a lot of resentment against me because we LB'd each other all the time. What helped him decide to put the extra effort in was going to a male MC, that extra accountability, knowing someone was going to ask how was that going. Once H tried being more sensitive in the bedroom, he found he prefers it that way, with both of us being satisfied, too. It's just hard to motivate ourselves when we get into a rut. You can do this!
_________________________
Me 34, H 50
Married 12 years
DDs 7 and 12


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#2072287 - 06/12/08 09:13 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: ears_open]
och84 och84
Junior Member


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 7 Well we have talked about some small things that could be worked on. I guess these would be considered the LB's. He would like it if I talked to him more, like talking about goals, ideas, etc. He would like me to be more creative in that sense. But other than that there aren't any complaints (unless he's holding them in)... This just isn't making any sense to me... How can I get him to tell me why he really doesn't want to meet my needs when all I get is the "I don't like doing that" answer?

And just so you know, he is 29 and I'm 24, I think that he is at a pretty young age to really not have any interest...

And I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with this online "talk", what is POJA? And also I do all the "little" things that he likes, I call him while I'm at work often, bring him drinks and snacks, I bring him surprises home often (usually just little things that I pick up on the way home), i give surprise massages often... I really try to do all of these "little" things to show him how I feel, but maybe it's just not getting through...

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#2072310 - 06/12/08 09:42 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: och84]
ears_open ears_open
Member


Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 4456 Och, it's a process of elimination. Okay, he doesn't like to do certain things. That's okay, he can try other things until you all find something that you're both enthusiastic about, which is POlicy Of Joint Agreement (POJA). What's going on today kills marriages, where he gains at your expense in this marriage. Does he try to again at your expense outside of the bedroom? Here are the MB Four Rules for a Healthy Marriage.
Rule of Protection - Don't be the source of your spose's unhappiness. This is where we look at Love Busters (LBs) - which are Disrespectful Judgements (DJs), Selfish Demands (SDs), and Angry Outbursts (AOs). Are any of these an issue for you guys?
Rule of Care - Meeting ENs - sounds like you are working on your part in this already, right?
Rule of Time - 15+ hours a week to meet both of your top ENs, including SF.
Rule of Honesty, which would include things like maybe he's not pleasing you because extramarital activities like looking at magazines that gave him a twisted idea of what SF should be limited to.


I encourage you to call the Harleys. This isn't a situation that most people could endure for long.
_________________________
Me 34, H 50
Married 12 years
DDs 7 and 12


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#2072334 - 06/12/08 10:18 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: ears_open]
och84 och84
Junior Member


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 7 Well you are right that I don't know how much longer I can deal with this...

As far as if he is gaining at my expense outside of the bedroom, I know this sounds silly, but I'm not sure... I am naturally a very giving person, I'd give just about anything to someone if they need it and I get a great amount of pleasure out of feeling like I helped someone, or made them feel good. So I don't really think that he is because I'm doing it to make myself feel good too, know what I mean?

"Rule of Protection - Don't be the source of your spose's unhappiness. This is where we look at Love Busters (LBs) - which are Disrespectful Judgements (DJs), Selfish Demands (SDs), and Angry Outbursts (AOs). Are any of these an issue for you guys?"

These were an issue for us while getting in debt... we both blamed each other for not doing enough, we would get angry and yell, and make hurtful comments (both of us did this). But after the debt was taken care of most of our stress seemed to be taken care of as well and all of our issues just stopped... maybe he could be resentful because of that? I have asked him about that, but he said that the debt was the problem, he never had a problem with me and I felt the same way.

"Rule of Care - Meeting ENs - sounds like you are working on your part in this already, right?"

I am really trying with this one. Like I said before he wants me to have more creative ideas and goals. He also had mentioned that we don't go out and do anything in public very often. So 1 day during work I asked him to meet me to go to the movies and out to dinner. He liked the idea, and we went and had a good time, but there was no affection at all. I was expecting at least some affection, like holding hands during the movie, or a kiss goodbye as we had to drive seperate cars home, but there was nothing. I reached over for his hand at 1 point and he shifted so my hand ended up on his leg instead, if felt like I went to the movies with my friend instead of my husband. When I asked him about it later that night he just said he doesn't like being affectionate in public and that was it.

"Rule of Time - 15+ hours a week to meet both of your top ENs, including SF."

This one is not being met. I work long hours away from home and he works from home but always while I'm there. The only time we ever really spend any time together is on the weekends, but even then he will start working. I'd say that we spend 10 or even less hours each week together, I'm not quite sure how to increase that amount of time either...

"Rule of Honesty, which would include things like maybe he's not pleasing you because extramarital activities like looking at magazines that gave him a twisted idea of what SF should be limited to."

While I haven't noticed anything going on in his phone records or computer... he did go on vacation for 1 week to visit his family. I couldn't go because of work. When he came back he seemed interested for about 3 days, and wanted to do different things which we did and both enjoyed but then after the first 3 days he went back to himself. He did tell me that he was talking to a friend (male) about his relationship with his wife and the different things they discussed wanting to do... One was a 3 way with another woman, my husband expressed to me that is one of his fantasys too. I went along with what he was saying and then he never brought it up again. We didn't actually do that, I had just told him that I wouldn't be against it. The only reason I bring this up here is because this is the first time he's telling me this after 4 and a half years (he told me about it last month).

Thanks for the replys so far, and I am sorry that this time I wrote a book back!

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#2072354 - 06/12/08 10:49 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: och84]
Wknghrd2LoveEasy Wknghrd2LoveEasy
Member


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 256 och,

I think you are very wise to consider that he may be having an affair or thinking about having one.

Some men are just not able to be affectionate to or have sex with more than one woman. If he is cheating and having sex with someone else, he probably has nothing to give you. Back door entrances for him may be so that he does not have to look at you. He can de-personalize the act this way. If he is giving his emotional attention to someone else, he may not be able to kiss you or hold your hand.

This is very much how my H was during the affair. He kissed me very little. Up till that point we had what I would call a fabulous sex life. Suddenly he didn't want it, would have "problems" or would insist that I just give him hand jobs.(hope that is not TMI for you.) It was H***.

Consider some heavy duty snooping.
I hope I am wrong but your H's behavior is suspicious.


WH2LE
_________________________
BS(Me)-54
FWH-51
Married-5/26/2001(2nd for me, 1st for him)
DS-27
DD-24
D-Day-05/31/2007


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#2072376 - 06/12/08 11:10 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: Wknghrd2LoveEasy]
och84 och84
Junior Member


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 7 Well I did some mild snooping... While working from home he is on the internet all day long. Once when he was gone I looked at his internet history and didn't see anything suspision. I also go over our cell phone history each month and if I don't recognize a number I'll call and pretend I have the wrong number to see who answers.

The only suspicious things are that he won't let me have his email password or his messenger password. Which really isn't too big of a deal, although he does know mine. If I walk by and he's chatting with someone he minimizes the window or he stops typing until after I'm gone, sometimes with a glare shot in my direction... And I did browse through 1 of his websites and found a comment that he made to another member (a girl) that was friendly but then turned a little too friendly... the girl asked for a t shirt with the website logo on it. He replied that he would send her one if she agreed to take her picture wearing it. Then a friend of his replied "Or not wearing it, ha ha". Then my husband replied, "How about wearing it wet?" with a stupid smiley face. The girl then said she would send a pic of her wearing the shirt with cute bikini but not wet... I haven't confronted him about that yet and I'm not sure if I should. But that's all the snooping I've been able to do so far. There hasn't been anything on or in his desk at home, or in his wallet... Do you think I have reason to be concerned over this? I mean if she is on the internet, how can he really be having an affair with her? Thanks again!

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#2072378 - 06/12/08 11:11 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: och84]
Wknghrd2LoveEasy Wknghrd2LoveEasy
Member


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 256 Also, I would suggest you move this thread over to the General QuestionsII forum. More traffic there and this seems to be a little more than just not meeting an EN for you. Lots of good advice on that forum.

WH2LE
_________________________
BS(Me)-54
FWH-51
Married-5/26/2001(2nd for me, 1st for him)
DS-27
DD-24
D-Day-05/31/2007


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#2072381 - 06/12/08 11:13 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: Wknghrd2LoveEasy]
och84 och84
Junior Member


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 7 Thanks for the suggestion, do you know who to move it there or should I just start a new topic there?

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#2072385 - 06/12/08 11:15 AM Re: Husband not meeting sexual needs, what to do? [Re: och84]
Wknghrd2LoveEasy Wknghrd2LoveEasy
Member


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 256 Put a keylogger on your computer. You can hide it easily.
Go the Just Found OUt forum and look for the post Snooping 101. Also, if you post the question about how to do this on the GQII forum, someone will help you.

WH2lE
_________________________

As I read your post, the first thing that occurred to me was that your husband may be gay. I listen to Dr. Laura frequently, and this same issue came up and this was her response, that the husband was quite possibly homosexual.

Does he have any male friends that seem extraordinarily close?

I'm finding it hard to believe tht he changed so quickly. Are you saying there were no signs before you married him or red flags?

Another question, how did you get out of debt so quickly?

And did you put a keylogger on the computer so you can track every stroke?

He may be doing porn and maturbating all day. That would be my guess.

Well as odd as this may seem... I can remember back when we first met and I asked him why he only has a handful of guy friends... Back then he told me that he doesn't like how guys act, he likes how girls act better (he has about twice as many girl friends as guy friends), and I didn't think anymore about it. He has maybe 3 or 4 guy friends that he is close to, 1 that he would call his best friend (and his best friend is married too). I also haven't been around the 2 of them together to really tell if they act "too close", but I know they talk very often.

It started off a little bit slow, it was only when we were in deep debt that I realized how he had changed, I had changed too as far as going into a bout of depression.

Thinking back, he is a different person from the one I met 4 and a half years ago. He comes from a very affectionate family and he was very affectionate with me in the beginning. He is still very affectionate with his family, but has completely stopped with me. I'm sure that everything slowly changed but I just didn't see it coming which is why I see it as happening so suddenly. There were no warning signs or red flags to me that would make me think this is how we would end up. To me he was perfect in the beginning.

And we did file bankruptcy to get out of debt, we were in debt and unable to make a lot of our payments for almost all of the last 2 years, only recently did the bankruptcy get discharged. His family also helped us out financially during that time.

No I haven't gotten a key logger yet. I'd have to be sure that he wouldn't find it. He's on the computer all day long for work, and he seems to know everything there is to know about them! He could be doing things at home that I don't know about, I mean he's different than he was before... Kind of an embarrassing story, he caught me with myself (in the beginning) and was horrified... We talked about it and he said he couldn't understand why I felt the need to do that like a 15 year old kid and that if I ever felt like I needed to be intimate he would prefer if I'd only have him satisfy me. No big deal to me, but in the end he didn't keep his word... But anyways that's why I don't think he would be masturbating, but he could be...

och84,

Check out:
http://www.awarenesstech.com/Monitoring-Software/Consumer/order-price.asp#price

It appears to be a monitoring system that is done web based and unseen by the computer user.

Good luck!

I think I remember people here talking about Spector Pro, or something like that. It is not detactable, and I think you can get it free on the internet. I would get some kind of program, and you will have your answers.

If he is chatting with someone, looking at porn or gay porn, it will be clear. Then you won't be wondering.

Thanks for those resources. I hate to feel sneaky but I'm going to give it a try...

You need to be sneaky and figure out exactly WHAT it is that is threatening your marital happiness. That is the only way you will be able to fight for your marriage.

Snooping with good reason is a VIRTUE, because it is a protective measure for your marriage. I recommend SpectorPro if you have daily access to the computer in question, or eblaster if you want to just access the computer once and have the reports emailed to you thereafter. both can be found at www.spectorsoft.com

I think I'm going to look at the 2nd option, he's on the computer all the time. I just had a little vent session in the thread i'm fed up... I'm realizing more and more that I'm not happy with... Thanks for the feed back.

Take your time in making any decisions. First you need to figure out what is going on. Get the key logger.

All of the other stuff can be settled with some MB plans - the main one being policy of joint agreement, where you both enthusiastically agree before any decisions are made.

If he decides to move alone, will you be okay financially?

I would be fine financially, and if something comes up, my parents would help me out, no questions asked... And we don't have any kids, so it's not like I'd have to support anyone else on my own.

This is all just so frustrating. I don't want to live feeling like I'm with a friend instead of a husband... what if that friend turns into a stranger? Or what if he already is a stranger and I just don't realize it?

With the free (trial?) version of Specterpro, someone mentioned they were afraid it would become obvious once the trial period expires... I imagine like a pop up window asking if you want to purchase? Does anyone know if this happens?

I suspect an A with a W, or a porn addiction

the big red flag for me is this: he has more female friends than guy friends. He says he prefers female freinds.

In my experience, when someone prefers the company of the opposite sex, it is because they prefer the attention of the opposite sex. The flattery.

Example;
a woman prefers to have guy friends, because when she is with them they say things like "you are great! I wish my W was more like you! You are not like the other women I know! Your H is so lucky"

Likewise, with a man, he would prefer female friends because they say things like:
"you are so understanding!! Your W is so lucky!! I have never known a man like you before! I wish you were single, I would snatch you up"

You see what I mean? some people need the constant ego boost, the constant attention of the opposite sex to make them feel attractive, desireable, sexy.

I seriously suspect a porn addiction here, because he seems to see you as an object for his own use. Not a living, breathing woman with needs, and desires (he was shocked to see you satisfying yourself, because that means you have real desires, like a real person). when a man gets himself into a heavy porn addiciton he stops seeing women as partners - and instead sees them as objects for their use.

Of course, these are just my opinion

and all of these thigns can be healed, with proper care and attention.
But of course he has got to want it.

And the process will begin with finding the truth, and exposing it.

Exactly WOF, porn addiction was my first guess. But the whole way he likes to have sex?????? I dunno.

The poster needs to find out what the problem is. If it is an affair, there is one course of action, porn, another, and if he is gay, maybe the marriage shouldn't be saved.

My experience with gay men(cousin who died from AIDS, boss who considers himself bi-sexual,and a few others)is that they do indeed have more women friends than male. My boss says he feels he has a more female mind and can talk to and understand women. He likes women to talk to becasue THEY like to talk. This is impossible for me to comprehend, but there it is.

Again, I would hope that her H is neither gay NOR having an A, but as Believer says, she has to find out what IS going on.

Who is the poster whose XH was gay and she is now re-married? I remember the story but not the name.

Maybe it would help here to read her posts.

WH2LE

Oh yes, IMHO gay men can make great friends for women, especially single women! You get all the fun of hanging out with your GF, without the competition!

Seriously, I too know a lot of gay guys (my uncle died from AIDS, my colleague and close personal friend is gay (he was married and had 3 kids and at least one A with a woman when he was still in denial), my neighbors and closest friends in this town are gay, I have a gay BIL and I thought my brother had come out as gay but my sister says he's living with a girl now, which doesn't necessarily mean anything...). I agree that a guy who likes talking to women and hanging out with women could very well be gay.

Maybe he was able to fake it for awhile, but with the stress of the debt he couldn't or or no longer chose to do so? I gotta say, only wanting the acts described, and not being willing to reciprocate at all, screams out at me.

Do you have any gay friends who could meet him and let you know what they think? My neighbors did that for me, when I was wondering if my H was gay (he's not).

I think ^aerial^ (sp?) is the poster you're thinking of, with a gay XH?

Thank you for all of the replies, here is an update...

Thursday night (a little after my last post) I was feeling really down about everything I was thinking, and laid in bed crying. He came into our room and while I was talking about everything (I left out the details about my plan to snoop, and my what I thought he was doing) he seemed to know exactly what I was thinking, almost as if he read all of this. Then we made love and it was like he knew exactly what I wanted, he seemed to be more concerned with me than himself, needless to say I was soooo happy!

The next day, Friday, I decided to stay home from work so that we could spend some quality time together. I realized that we were not coming close to the 15 hours a week, so I thought that would be a good start. The day was great, we went shopping, helped each other with yard work, cooked together, we just did everything together.

Then something else happened... I was washing dishes when he got a phone call. This call was at the time that I usually would still be at work. Although I wasn't in the same room, I could hear his voice. I stood by the door and heard, "yeah she's here" then a pause, and then "i don't know"... So I decided to enter the room and see what's going on. He seems a little anxious, but continued to talk. He talked about this persons vacation, his own trip he took not too long ago, a mutual friend they both have, and he was asked if he had kids yet, and was invited to go to this person's house. He ended the call with "yeah that sounds good, email me about it" and hung up.

After he hung up he said "guess who that was" so I guessed a couple of names and was wrong, he said it was e___ (females name), remember her? I said no... He told me that he met her a couple of years ago at a friends house but lost contact with her and she just called out of the blue. He told me that her and her husband went on vacation and that she invited "us" to their house sometime. Kind of sarcastic I said, so she called you out of the blue after a couple of years to tell you about her vacation with her husband, that's cool... And yeah WE should go over there sometime, when do you want to go? I'll make arrangements to go with you. His tone changed and said, well I don't really know how her husband is, we'll see when she emails me and I'll let you know. I asked, you didn't meet her husband when you met her? Did you even know she was married? He said that at that time they were just dating and that no he never met her husband. So, I was pretty irritated the rest of the night...

I installed the keylogger, but I'm going to wait until I'm out of the house at work for a couple of days to check it. I'm thinking that maybe he won't check his email or take the time to write back to her if I'm hanging around. And I also called my Aunt (the PI) early this morning, she said that she would hang close by our house next week and see what happens. And this pretty much wiped the "gay" issue out of my head, although I'll still keep my eyes open.

Oh and I forgot to add that no we do not have any gay male friends... I do have a couple of lesbian friends, but I don't know if they'd be able to tell me anything by his actions...