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Stella, were you there?!?! How do you know? I think AO3K knows his wife better than you do. I see this as Plan B being very effective in this case. I'm with Stella on this one. I think he's being played by a very skillful gaslighter. We are talking about someone that had three As, including one in the very first year of M! She should NOT be let back into the M unless a LOT of precautions are put in place, including a post-nup.
ManInMotion
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(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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AW3,
Your wife sounds bipolar.
Violent towards your children. Swings emotionally.
She's all over the place.
I believe she manipulated you. I also think a "goodbye" call is a mistake.
No contact is no contact. There doesn't need to be a goodbye call for a man who was f-ing your wife.
These hysterics are to get attention.
The idea that you could be faulted for putting someone in the hospital is ridiculous. You should be praised if you were that concerned for her well being.
A mental breakdown is a mental breakdown and it is an emergency.
I would be very skeptical. I'm saying this from having dealt with similar personalities.
D-Day 28 Feb 06
Plan D (Not by choice) - 24 March 06
DD6
DS4(Twin1)
DS4(Twin2)
She moved away with the kids April 08. I contested it and got a lot more time with my kids. She's unhappy that I want to stay involved in their lives and don't settle for being an "every other weekend" dad.
Never going to happen.
Ongoing personal recovery through the help of friends, family, and DC United Soccer!
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ab...wow. I'm sorry, but that was dumb. All of it. She played you like a fiddle. Please step back now and resume NC and Plan B. You've just taught her a very destructive lesson, and you can rest assured that if you get back together, you can start expecting these little episodes with increasing frequency, every time she doesn't get what she wants. OMG. I thought you might benefit from re-reading some of what you wrote in your first 10 pages: I have treated her like a princess. She does nothing around our house, she allows me to handle most of the parenting chores, she literally just had her job during the day, and a loving home at night. I constantly tell her how much I love her and how proud I am of her and her calling as a hospice nurse.
She has left before (10 yrs ago), so I am guarded as to breaking this cycle that seems to be developing.
I'm not sure I want her back, although I know our children need her.
She just called me moments ago to tell me what scum I was and that I had destroyed the lives of a "good man" and his 10 year old daughter.
Is it normal that my wife would change her story about the OM on a daily basis. It almost feels like she is backing away from her devotion to him, but she isn't yet willing to put any efforts into me. At first, he was just someone she had confided in. Later, he became the man she had met at a hotel 2 hours away. The next day, she attempts to dagger me in the back by telling me how they made mad passionate love, and telling me she is in love with him and has never felt this way about any other man. On Sunday, he returned to just being a friend again. Yesterday, she tells me that they weren't physical at all, as she was on her cycle and today he is a "good man" who doesn't deserve this, he was only a close companion. What the .#$!@#$? I'm getting dizzy here.
Okay, I gave in and called her...too soon! I was told that I had cost her her job and that if I did have any hopes of reconciliation, they are now gone. She said she didn't care if I died today. I shouldn't have called, but I couldn't stand it!
She has a very angry side to her and I have always bore the brunt of most of it.
One update, she did call to ask to come over and see the kids tonight. When I informed her that some of our mutual friends from church were coming over and that the baby was spending the night elsewhere, she went nuts. She cursed at me and told me that she hoped I would wreck my car and die! She called back later to apologize.
she reiterated that she would NEVER live with me again! She now says that she just sees potential for a relationship with OM and that they haven't been intimate. She has always said that she couldn't live alone, even saying she would remarry quickly if I died. She can't see how his presence in this is only providing her comfort to leave. She says they pray for me every night,
1 1/2 years ago, W tried to leave. She had an inappropriate friendship with another of her company's chaplains. So inappropriate in fact, that his wife called me accusing my wife of a PA. I believe that it never got that far, but now think that W was just searching for another man to comfort her when she did this. Remember, she always said she could never be alone!
Many times I have wanted out myself, but would NEVER have considered it because of our children. No one in my family has ever been divorced. I will be seen as the first to graduate college, then the first to divorce. All of my wife's relatives have been married at least 2-3 times!
I DO still want her back, but I don't think she has the self inspection skills necessary to see that we both have made HUGE mistakes in our life together. If she is ever willing to evaluate things honestly, I will gladly take her back and enjoy what a marriage should REALLY be like! But I will not go back to life as it was...if I did, it would only be until the next OM came along, then she would leave again!
I suppose I never mentioned the two previous A's because I had forgiven her and moved on. I have never ONCE mentioned her indescretions to her, even in the most heated of arguments! I am one who believes that, if you forgive unconditionally, you forget as well. Though I know that I never really forgot the other events, I never allowed her to know that they did still bother me at times. Again, I thought things were fine! I assure you, I never ignored my W, if anything, she ignored me!
I am not willing to take W back without intensive counseling
I AM accepting my role in our M's demise, but I can't fix the obvious problems I see while she is not willing to try. A professional counselor would have done us a world of good 10+ years ago, one still could, but I can't MAKE her do this of she is not willing.
Besides, NONE OF THIS excuses 3 affairs!
I CAN and DO except the things that should've been different, but I CANNOT accept her third A in 14 years or believe that anything I have done justifies them. Yes, I DO still love her and would take her back TODAY under the right circumstances (agreement to counseling, true remorse for her actions, etc.), but I will not be convinced that I should feel guilty in any way about the life we had together
I do know that her mother has suggested therapy to her, she only insists that nothing is wrong with her, only me(though she can't offer any specifics). Until when or if the day comes that she is willing to examine herself, R is not in either of our (or our children's) best interest. I am just praying that she will, at some point, look in the mirror and wonder what SHE could've done differently. Wow, I didn't read all of this before. I take back what I said and apologize to Stella. She obviously has major issues and this probably WAS a ploy. I was basing my comments on the spiritual aspect and hoping that she was truly becoming a broken woman for her husband and her children's sake. Just think what she's been teaching her children by her actions over the years. I wouldn't be surprised if your children turned on her when they're older. I'm still praying though, but now for a bigger miracle. She needs fixin' in a bad way.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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PM, They've turned on her now. After last night, I'm convinced that WW needs psychiatric help.
How can I help her get that...or, can I. At this point, I am still her husband...we're not even legally sperated yet (due to the adoption).
I just spoke to WW's mother, who agrees that her daughter needs some type of help. Can she help me get WW treated?
Just curious, I really don't know. But, you're right, bipolar is definetly a possibility...though I never thought so before.
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Your W probably does have psychiatric issues. That doesn't mean she is crazy. Nor does it explain, or certainly not excuse, her behavior. I think it is more likely that your WW is beginning the process of hitting rock bottom. She fighting desperately against the inevitable consequences of her behavior, and this latest round of hysterics is simply her resorting to methods that have always worked in the past.
I think in the future, if she makes the panicked hysterical calls, instead of rushing over to rescue her, your response should be to either call her family, or the police and send them over. Keep the voice messages for proof that you had valid reasons for concern for her health and safety.
Your W CHOSE to leave. She abandoned everything that should have been important to her to persue adultery. You are in Plan B to protect yourself and your children from her abuse. Breaking Plan B is NOT in you or your children's best interests. This is something that IS in your control, and your failure to control it is going to make the situation worse. It is also going to greatly confuse your kids. Remember, your W can choose to meet your Plan B conditions at ANY TIME. Things do not have to be the way they are.
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AW
Been following along - I was thinking that your WW was bi-polar. Looks to me her manic phase is crashing. I know because I have a 16yo dtr with BP. In the manic phase - all judgement and morals fly out the window and then comes the crash which can be dangerous.
Also was thinking that perhaps her job may have negative side effects as well. Being a hospice nurse has to be a tough career - is there ever a nice day at that job?
Also want to note that you fulfilled some EN which may prolong the fence sitting. Be careful. Keep the kids and stay away from the drama as far as possible.
Me:52
W: 52
Married: 32 yrs
2 Sons (29 & 23)
1 Dtr (20)
1 GDtr (2.5) precious little girl
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YES, I fully believe that her job is a HUGE problem. I know she is great at it...I've read her previous performance reviews. But, as you say, how does ANYONE deal with death on a daily basis and NOT have it affect them.
I'm thinking now that, SOME mental illness, in conjunction with her job has certainly contributed to her wayward lifestyle. NO, I don't think there are ANY possible excuses for all she has done, but I do agree that she needs help!
Her mother agrees and is going to try to talk to her. She will be MUCH more receptive to her mother than she would me anyway. Besides, I'm supposed to be dark...remember?
Oh, and BTW, her mother asked me for OM's phone number earlier, I think she is about tired of this and ready to lower the boom as well.
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Oh, and BTW, her mother asked me for OM's phone number earlier, I think she is about tired of this and ready to lower the boom as well. Somebody else's MIL or mother did this and I think it ended the affair that day or pretty quick! I can't remember who it was though. Anybody else remember?
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I think in the future, if she makes the panicked hysterical calls, instead of rushing over to rescue her, your response should be to either call her family, or the police and send them over. Keep the voice messages for proof that you had valid reasons for concern for her health and safety. I agree. It's too bad you didn't call 911 when you were with her and she was breaking down. Let the professionals determine if it's an act or not. If it's an act, then you've just taught her that you will cave if she acts hysterical enough. (Like with kids; if you say no and they whine and have a temper tantrum for a minute and you cave, then you've taught them what it takes to get what they want. If you try to stick to your guns next time and they whine for 10 minutes and you cave, you've taught them to just whine longer, that you will eventually cave.) If it's not an act, then it is in her best interests and the kids' and your best interests for her to receive treatment. It's good that her mom is taking a more active role. Maybe she can get WW into treatment, even if it's just an IC. My prayers are with you.
me - 47  H - 39  married 2001 DS 8a  DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Thanks guys, but I'd like to point out that the ONLY thing I caved on was breaking the silence.
I DID NOT beg WW to return home. I did not agree that she could see our kids more. I DID contact OM and speak very harshly to him.
I really don't see where I caved except that I did give in and call and go over. Had she REALLY commited suicide, I never would've forgiven myself had I not have. SORRY.
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How many times did you text her today?
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She heard the end of the conversation and told me that she had already told him earlier they could not continue in their sin. However, she is still only willing to discuss her relationship with the kids...not really me! She has no relationship with the kids, she walked out. Go dark(er). Adopt your baby. Next time you are afraid for her call 911 and your MIL. She needs to come to you now. And, after 3 affairs, on begging hands and knees. Not for any other reason than for you to start to believe her. My prayers are with you.
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No doubt, too many (5-6). But, when I left last night she was literally still in the floor sobbing. I texted asking if she was physically okay. Her response (I'll be fine soon, enjoy your Father's Day weekend with your kids, you're ALL they need) sounded very much like a suicide note to me.
I will not apologize for still caring. I realize that Plan B got trashed last night, but I also realize that these "Plans" are not completely set in stone and are MANY times altered due to specific situations and circumstances.
In hindsight, yes, I would have handled things a little differently (I definetely would have dialed 911), but I owe no one an apology for still loving my wife and the mother of my children.
Her decision making right now sucks, but no one has walked a mile in our shoes. I HAVE to handle things as I feel God would have me do. In the end, He's who I (as well as WW) will answer to.
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AW3,
I have a bipolar daughter. I know how it feels to be on this emotional roller coaster. I would suggest going to Al-Anon or some type of support group that will give you tools on how NOT to enable the "drunk", so to speak.
It's SOOO hard when they seem suicidal. I was almost thinking that she had hit rock bottom.... right up until the comment from the text message. It was truly a ploy to control you. Sad as that may sound.
The next time she calls like this, the only thing you should do is CALL 9-1-1 !!!!
Yes, you did good by not giving up all of your boundaries, but it's time to tighten down the hatches because she saw a hole and she's going to exploit that hole over and over until it gets bigger or she can make a new one.
Sheesh! I feel for you.
And OM's ploy to call her "one last time" makes me want to vomit.
I'm glad you talked to her mom and you gave her OM's number. Keep using her as a source of support as you are supporting her as well. This will make WW very angry at some point, but it's like working with loved ones for an intervention.
Hang in there AW3. No one said you could do it perfectly, you are learning from your mistakes.
Stay the course!
BS(me) - 40
FWH - 36
6 years of discovery.
Now - one day at a time....
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No doubt you love your wife. No one here would deny that. However, after 3 affairs maybe it's time try something different?
Continue in your Plan B. Go dark(er).
No one would want you to see affair #4.
She has to hurt to get past her addictions.
Your mercy here is needed but that mercy is not giving in.
She should have no support from you while in the affair. Zero, none, nada, zilch!
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No one is asking you for an apology, nor do you owe us one, you have done nothing to harm us. We are seeking to help you, to give you strength in a difficult time. That includes telling you when you have made a mistake, and explaining why.
Perhaps you do not realize that you are in Plan B precisely BECAUSE you still love your W and wish to reconcile. If you did not feel this way, Plan D would be the recommendation you would recieve. You are not in Plan B to PUNISH your WW, you are in Plan B to protect yourself and your family from WW. Going dark is not about WW, its about YOU. If you continue to indulge your WW's insanity, you will grow to hate her. If you feel the same way I do about MB, then you are here because you recognize that these plans give you the best chance to achieve your goal. You can do "Plan AW3" all you want, we'll try to help you with that too, but its not recommended and not as likely to succeed.
Last edited by Tyk; 06/12/08 02:52 PM.
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Hon, we're not trying to trash you cos it's fun. We're trying to protect you. Everything in your posts shows you bend over backwards for her, always have. You did all the housework, you raised the kids, you affirmed your love for her on a daily basis, you forgave/forgot 2 affairs, and you never asked for anything in return. The kind of woman who would THEN go out and have another affair to a man like that is a user and a manipulator. Sure, she may have some qualities worth loving. But from what you have said you are TOO NICE. And she knows it. And she knows how to get what she wants. She's tried trashing you, sucking up to you, playing the victim, and now appealing to your goodness. In your wife's world, whatever it takes to get what she wants... No one's telling you to turn your back on your wife for good. We're telling you that doing it this way is counter-productive and even harmful for all of you - including her! fwiw, 2 pages back you said you texted her at least 20 times as of the time of your first post today, and were getting responses all day. So you are negating what you said earlier, in an attempt to defend your actions. You don't have to defend yourself against us; we're on your side, ok? Also, I have offered to help her in any way possible, possibly even psychiatrically. This is a lot more than just breaking silence. This is getting you wrapped all over her fingers, all over again. In high school, I dated a guy who had 'seizures' exactly like you just described. I'd sit with him, hold his head in my lap, fetch him water, cry for him, yada yada; went on for months. I was so distraught cos he was such a tortured soul that he was barely hanging on (sound familiar?). One day I caught him in the act of faking it, realized he'd been conning me from day one, cos he got off on all the attention. Completely fake, throwing up and all. Just telling you to let you know it CAN be faked. Also, people with abusive personalities? The ones who are all about themselves? Have affairs with abandon? One of their most often-used manipulation tricks is to tell their partner that they will kill themself if the partner tries to leave. It works because they pick partners who have a codependency and/or a need to help/heal people so they can control the situation by keeping the partner hopping.
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AW3,
By all means, take action if you feel she may hurt herself. But call her bluff and dial 911 next time if you're that concerned.
Bipolar can resemble a personality disorder as well, which is harder to diagnose.
I've dealt with both in my life on a very personal level. Both are damaging and the worst one is personality disorder.
There's very little that can be done for someone with one. My ex fiance falls into that. She goes through a pattern of "marriage hopping". She gets married, regrets it, seeks comfort with others and reaches out to past loves. She contacted me months ago, wanting to "meet up as friends" while she's married. I told her no way.
You may want to research both. They're similar. But bipolar is treatable with drugs. Personality is not.
D-Day 28 Feb 06
Plan D (Not by choice) - 24 March 06
DD6
DS4(Twin1)
DS4(Twin2)
She moved away with the kids April 08. I contested it and got a lot more time with my kids. She's unhappy that I want to stay involved in their lives and don't settle for being an "every other weekend" dad.
Never going to happen.
Ongoing personal recovery through the help of friends, family, and DC United Soccer!
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Your mercy here is needed but that mercy is not giving in. And to further this thought... mercy should not be confused with tolerance. Many people in our society today believe that God is merciful (He is), therefore He is tolerant (not necessarily). If your role is to love your wife as Christ loved the church, then you can surely show mercy when the time is right (she comes to you in true repentence), but that doesn't mean you have to tolerate her behavior in the meantime. KWIM?
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I really don't see where I caved except that I did give in and call and go over. Had she REALLY commited suicide, I never would've forgiven myself had I not have. SORRY. aw... I prolly woulda done the same as you. We're only human after all. And yes physical safety comes first, even for her. That said... if she were having a heart attack, would you go over there and try to handle it yourself? Would you wait till you got there to call 911? IMHO the thing to do is to call 911 *before* doing anything else including going over there. I know, it's a judgement call... what if it turns out that it wasn't anything serious enough to justify calling 911... and you don't want to be accused of exaggerating... but if you had voice msgs on tape demonstrating the state of mind she was presenting to you, then (as a Monday morning quarterback) I think you would have been better off calling 911 before (or instead of) going over there. If it turns out to be a false alarm, the onus is on her for acting so hysterical. It would serve as a wake-up call, to grow up and cut out the hystrionics (sp?). If it wasn't a false alarm she'd be in treatment right now. And possibly on the road to recovery, personally and marriage-wise. Just something to consider for next time. I'm in no way blaming you for your reaction, I prolly would've done the same thing. But I often do things that are less than optimum in hind sight. It could still turn out alright.
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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