Greetings.

I just found this forum last week, unfortunately I am afraid I found it far too late.

I am 31, my wife is 27, and we have been together 11yrs, married for 5. We have no children but I desperately wanted children since before we where married. She constantly stated she did not, until she accidentally got pregnant about a year ago. Unfortunately she had a miscarriage. After that she went baby crazy, but I wanted to wait until we had gotten out of debt before having one. (wich is actually right about now)

My story

My wife left me February 17th 2008 after we had a BIG fight. We where both very, very wrong in this and the many fights that came before. After reading this site and many others, I look back on the last two years of our marriage and see so many things that we did wrong to each other. All of this could have been avoided so easily. Our biggest problem was drinking.

After she left, I gave her one week to cool off, I knew she was at her brothers and safe. I called every night but she would not answer. I left voice mails telling her I loved her and was sorry.

The following week I went to her brothers, she told me she had rented a place and was not coming home. She said she did not want a divorce, she just needed time away to grow up. I asked her was there someone else, she said no, and promised me there wouldn't be.

I arranged marriage counseling. She came to the first one, cried, said she loved me but hated me, but that she wanted to save our marriage. She never came to counseling again.

Over the next several weeks I was almost completely unable to contact her. Finally I got her to meet me and we talked. She claimed she wanted to work things out, wanted to save our marriage, and would actively start working towards that. I asked her had she been seeing anyone, she said she had gone on a few dates but nothing had happened, and she stopped because everything just reminded her of me. We had lunch the next day, and she said she wanted to spend the following Saturday with me.

That following Saturday I received a call from the OM. It seems that my WW had been seeing this guy since the second week she was gone and he wanted to make sure I new what had been going on. She had told him the following night that she was going back to me and they had a huge fight. He wanted to make sure I wouldn't take her back.

WW contacted me a few hours later wanting to talk. I told her OM had contacted me and she spilled the beans on the whole thing. She apologized and asked me to help her rebuild our marriage. And said she would never see him again. We spent the next few weeks in ever increasing contact.

I found out that her family and friends knew about the affair and universally hated him and her actions.

Then, at 3:00 am on the night before our anniversary (technically our anniversary) I found her car and his parked at a local hotel. I took pictures of them and showed her the following day.

She claimed he was not there and didn't know why his car was there. That she stayed there alone to "get away from her room maits" (her sister and freind).

When I tearfully asked her for the truth, she told me "You know what, F*** you" That was the last time I sow her, and the last words she spoke to me in person.

I'll cut out the rest, and skip to the present.

She found out the following week she is pregnant.
It's his.
She lives with him now.
She has filed for divorce.
I have offered to take her back and raise the baby.
(A decision that took me several weeks to make)

She just keeps telling me she is sorry, and doesn't know what to do. She says she has a few more months to decide because the divorce is not final.



I fear that there is absolutely no hope of even getting a chance to be with the woman I have loved my entire adult life. Even if I am willing to raise an OC.

Has anything like this ever been overcome?

Thank u for your time.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. It sounds like the OM at least has a tiny bit of integrity. It is somewhat unusual for an OM to notify the husband.

Your wife will not have any feelings for you as long as the affair continues. Hopefully her parents will be able to talk to her. But don't count on it.

She is making crazy decisions - like getting pregnant while married to you.

I would ponder very carefully whether you want to raise this man's child. It would mean contact for life between he and your wife.

Since you have no children together, I would suggest really taking your time on any decisions.

I'm sure the affair will end, and then she will probably want to come back to you.

This is the most glaring of problems that you will have to face. No contact between WW and OM is the first thing WW would have to establish to recover your marriage. I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this, but unless NC is established you will most likely find yourself sharing your WW with OM for a long time. She needs to make that first step (NC)...you can't do it for her. Begin to heal for yourself my friend...you have to.

Welcome to MB, but so sorry you find yourself in this situation.

There's another thread that may be helpful to you about another BH who's WS is now pregnant with OM's son. You might want to read it because it covers a lot of the issues involved with raising OC.

Here's the link.

Negative.
He did it to try and keep me from taking her back and fish me for information. Later he told her that I said a lot of things to him that I didn't. He took what I said, twisted it, and regurgitated it back to her to make me look bad. I did convince her that he was lying, and he later admited to her that he was. But she still went back to him.

OM is 29 and has a child from his first marrage. He is only allowed to see the child through supervised visits. From what I have been told by her freinds, OM went to jail for beating his former wife and that is the reason he can only have supervised visits with the child. From what I understand he rarely makes attemps to see the child anyway.

I have also been told that OM has grabed my WW so hard that he left a bruse on her arm. I am also told he pulled a knife on her at a dance club and threatened to use it on her because someone asked her to dance.

Her father had her take out a no treaspassing warent on him for the house she rented after he leaft marks on her arm. After she went back to him, she moved in with him becouse he could not come to her place. She since disowned her family for the most part.

From what I have read, there are ways around this.

that would be nice, but it looks less and less likley with each passing day. I would have no problem loving the child and my WW. My biggest chalange would be to never throw it in her face during an argument.

Already read it.

Thank you all for your replies.
I wish I would have found this site sooner.

At this point you are young enough to find a Woman to have children with.
This OM may never want to disappear from your lives. Trying to cause all kinds of trouble. To keep your WW will leave you with a lot of baggage. The question is can you handle the baggage?

If you decide that you can't stay and have to divorce you will be stuck with CS for the OM's OC.

Gack,

Welcome to the club no one wants to be a member of.

I realize that you are in a state of hurt but I would run from this woman as fast and hard as possible.

This is a train wreck and you do not need to take part in it. You have a violent OM who has pregnated your WW, and have no children of the marriage.

She has made her choice clear - you need to jump off this ship for your own well being. There are other women out there and you deserve better.

Learn from this site, meanwhile move on.

Gack1, IMO the VERY, VERY BEST thing you can do right now for you, your WW and the OM is to go straight to Plan D and let him keep her.

You've only been M'd for 5 years, and there are no children involved. You have a great opportunity now to exit stage left and open yourself up to the possibility of finding someone new, someone who would love and respect you as much as you do them. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life instead with a liar, a cheater, while bringing up someone else's child, a result and constant reminder of her lying and cheating?

Plan B, followed by Plan D. That's what I'd recommend.

I really dont think he will be a problem if the affair ever ends.

Negative.
I have hired legal councell and my states paternaty laws are quite clear. As long as I prove that the child is not mine within 2 years of birth then I am not liable for child support. I belive that even applies if we stay married. I can check with my lawyer if that sittuation arrises.

There are also several other options I have considered if the that situation should arrise, such as a Affidavid of denial of paternaty, or even divorcing and then re-marrieng later

I have been considering the same questions you are raising for several weeks now.

Thanks

Logicaly I agree with you. Unfortuanatly.......And I know you have all heard this 100 times.....

I love her so much, that I am willing to attempt anything to try to save our relationship.

OM is only violent to women.
I have done a lot of reasearch on him, he appears to be a pansy when it comes to any confrentation with another man. If she will walk away from him, I am convinced he will not be a problem.

See thats the thing.
I'm not standing on deck hoping against hope the ship wont sink. Im in a life boat watching it sink, but wondering if I can raise it after it hits the bottom.

Know what I mean?

I have accepted what has/is going to happen.
I go out with freinds.
I stopped drinking.
I started lifting weights again.
I keep myself busy to try not to think about it.
I know my life will go on without her.

But I still want her back, child and all.

Oh, and I am very sorry for my absolutly horrable spelling.

I spoke to my WW yesterday. She had received the answer (reply) to her divorce papers from my Lawyer. She was less than pleased.

The part that I don’t understand is why she was upset.

The part that upset her was that under the reply to her asking for a divorce due to irreconcilable differences. I stated that I was concerned about her mental and physical well being. It was in a paragraph along with not wanting a divorce and wanting to rebuild the marriage, etc etc.

She sent me the following texts after she received the papers.

"So let me get this strait, you think that I am crazy. Thanks Appreciate it"

I replied with "I don’t think your crazy."

"That’s what’s in the divorce papers. So you’re not just saying it to me you’re telling the court systems too"

Then, before I could get a reply out, I get this one.

"Do you realize that statement alone in the divorce papers will make it really hard for me if "OM" files for full custody if I don’t stay with him"

Now how am I supposed to feel about that? I did not put that in there to cause any type of problem for her. I put it in there because I am genuinely concerned about her mental and physical state wile she is with OM.

What does that even mean? Is her Fog finally beginning to clear? Is she starting to see the bozo for what everyone else sees him for? Is she just stringing me along more? Or is she coming up with excuses to stay with him?

I just don’t understand any of this.

I texted her back and told her to call me if she wanted speak to me about any of it.

She called a few hours later.

I told her why I had that put in the papers and that it was not meant to be used against her. I also told her that the only reason OM would ever ask her for full custody was just to hurt her.

She agreed.

So I asked her why she wanted to be with someone like that.
She did not reply.

After a second she asked me what I would do in that situation if I was OM. I told her I am not him. She said she is not comparing me to OM, she just wanted to know what I would do in that situation if I was OM. I told her I would do what I thought was best for the child. She went quite again.

Then we had the following exchange.
(My part was said in a calm, caring tone)

Me = Do you understand what I am offering you, the commitment and sacrifice I am willing to make?

WW = Yes

Me = Does it mean nothing to you?

WW = It means a lot to me.

Me = Then what’s the problem? Most people would kill to have someone love them that much?

WW = Silence.

WW = Sniffle.

Me = Are you crying?

WW = Whimper. (crying)

Me = Baby wh (cut of by her)

WW = (Definitely crying, but trying to hide it) I have to go, I'll call you tomorrow. (Click, hangs up the phone)

What does this mean? This is the first time she has shown any emotion involving me in almost 2 months.

Is it a good sign, a bad sign?
Did I mess up and say the wrong thing?

She did not say one word about the divorce date being moved back 7 months. She is the one who filed; you would think that she would be upset with that. But no, not one word about that.

I don’t understand any of this.

Quit trying to understand, you can't.

You are creating conflict within your WW. The reality is that in most cases OM has not rights to OC that you and/or WW do not give him. In most cases the child will legally be considered your child if that is what you and WW wish.

It COULD be that the reality of what she has done is beginning to dawn on WW. That doesn't change the reality though.

Your WW has shown her true colors in the most brutal fashion. I'm sorry for you that this happened, but it cannot and will not be undone. I think you should proceed with the divorce on the most favorable terms you can get. Divorce does not HAVE to be permanent, but in your case I think you should anticipate that it will be and seek every advantage you can.

You think she's mentally unstable because her actions have indicated such. Its a reasonable thing to believe imo. Leaving a marriage and getting pregnant with a man that she doesn't even know she wants to be with while still married to another man is hardly the behavior of a responsible adult or a description of a fit soon to be parent, is it? You included it in the divorce papers because it is true and obvious to anyone that observes the situation. There's no reason to sugar coat it to make her feel better about the disaster she has created. IF this is ever going to work out, she is going to have to own and atone for that and there is no reason for you to waste time serving it to her gently.

Thats my bigest problem. I know I cant understand it, but I keep wanting to.

Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?
(From the I want her back side)


That is correct in my state. Only she and I can protest paternity.


That would be a start. And your right, it doesn't change or undo what she has done. But it might be a start at moving towords recovery. (and belive it or not, thats what I want.)

I know I cant understand it. But why doesn't she seem to see that?

Not in my book.

I understand.

YOU, Gack seem like a man with integrity.

You deserve better...

You really want to spend the rest of your life connected to the do*chebag's gene pool that your adulterous wife chose to swim in?

You think the knife weilding scumbag is going to take kindly to you raising his seed?

He pulled that [censored] because someone else ASKED her to dance?

Think about your future and what you envision a happy childhood for YOUR children being. He any part of that?

Sorry if that's harsh.

Don't invite the Jerry Springer show home with you...

I truly wish you peace.

Thank you.
I dont think I deserved this either.
I dont think anyone could deserve this.

If you mean the child, then........yea, I guess so. If you mean him or his family, no. But if his past marriage and his relationship with his doughter are any indication, that shouldnt be a problem.

Like I said, I dont think it will be a problem if she ever gets away from him.

Correct.
He is to big of a pansy to try that on another man. He talks a big game, then as soon as someone steps up, he calls the police.

Every day I find out more and more about this guy. He was discribed to me by a female freind that i found out knew him as "complete trash" and "A deadbeat Dad". He is almost universaly disliked by everyone I have found that knows him. They call him Pop-A-Top, becouse his teeth are so crooked it looks like you could open a beer bottle with them. (odd since my WW was a stickler for strait teeth) He has quite a bad reputation around town.

Negative.
He would be an Innert component in any future I would have.

No not at all. I appriciate yours and everyone elses comments.

6 Months ago I would have told anyone in my sittuation to run away as fast as they could. I would have told them they where absolutly insane to even entertain the idea of taking someone back who had done this.

Then it happened to me.
The view from the other side is a lot differant.

I have been thinking this is some Springer-esc stuff the entire time too.

Why are you willing to consider bringing this mess into your life? Are you afraid to be alone? Do you think WW is the best you can do?

Recovery, even in the best circumstances, is difficult. You do not and will not have the best circumstance.

Your WW is persisting in an A despite it being DIFFICULT to remain in the A. The fantasy bubble has popped, its no longer good times, yet she is still there, choosing a dangerous and abusive OM over not only her marriage, but over her own safety. This means to me that she has issues that would need to be resolved before any kind of meaningful recovery could even begin. Given the pregnancy and fact that she is still making such incredibly poor choices, it is doubtful that she is going to be capable of or willing to do the work on herself that will be necessary to even make recovery possible. Which is why I think you should proceed with the divorce. Who knows, something may happen in the future between you two, but I think in time you will not even want it.

I think that if you actually remove yourself from the situation, go into a very dark Plan B, you will begin to realize that you do not really love this woman. If you give yourself a chance to begin to heal yourself, you will be able to more clearly assess the situation. Allowing yourself to be pulled into her drama is steeping yourself in a fantasy of your own, its called a BS "fog".

You are young, you seem like a decent guy in a very bad spot. You are learning a hard lesson, but you ARE learning. You will be able to apply this knowledge in your life, and will almost certainly find someone to build a real relationship with down the road. But you have to get yourself to that point first.

Gack,

I am not sure you are going to like what I have to say. Actually, I KNOW you are not going to like what I have to say.

You and your W fight...alot. Eventually she leaves and promises not to date while separated. Then she dates...some. Oh! wait, she is dating seriously. So seriously that she ends up pregnant.

Her "boy friend" abuses her. Her father attempts to protect her by getting her to obtain a restraining order.

She ignores this and moves in with OM, and THEN disowns her family.

He threatens her in a public place and she continues to live with OM.

You offer to take her and his child back into your life and she calls you and argues with you about you claiming she is nuts.

Have I got this about right?

The problem you have is that you are still married to a teenager, and a very immature one at that. The reason you two argued all of the time is because she is very very immature, and I am not so sure about your maturity level.

I know you love her. I know you have a history with her, and I know that this is a big fraction of your life...NOW. But, it will NOT be in another 20 or 30 years when you will still be a relatively young man.

You are ignoring some very very bad data. I will tell you this, how a spouse relates and treat their family is often a very good indicator of how they will treat you. Given the level of maturity your W is showing, I doubt her ability to be a good mother.

Oh, and if OM challenges you in court he will have visitation whether you like it or not.

You do notice that she is still living with him, yes the affair may end. It may end in her death. It may end in him getting bored with her. It may end with her finally growing up some. It is likely to end with her in the hospital.

You may think he is scum, your friends may think he is scum, I may think of him as scum, but she thinks highly enough of him to carry his child and go live with him.

Frankly, a woman with that level of taste is probably NOT good for you.

It is your call. You are right the child is not the big issue. It is her decision making ability and her choices that are the big issues, and neither of them recommend themselves as someone who will be a good spouse.

You are on the path to divorce. You have made your offer. Step back now and let her lead her life as she chooses. I think as you remove yourself from the drama, you will see things more clearly and your decision making will be the better for that.

God Bless,

JL

Close, the order is a little off, but you basicly have the idea.

I would definatly agree with that. The funny thing is over the last year she kept telling me that she grew up, and that I needed to also.


Me neither.

Thats somthing else thats weird. Before this happened, her family was extreamly important to her. I was very suprised to hear that she had closed herself off from them.


Untill this happened, I was shure she would be a great mother. She is a natural with children. But now, with the way she is acting, no. It's like she was obducted by aliens and replaced with some twisted version of herself.

If (and thats a big if) we stay married, my states paternaty law says he cant chalange anything. However, I dont think the fog will clear before the divorce and DNA test proving I am not the father.

Then I will have 0 rights

Yup


Yea, I know. That makes no since to me either.

Again, thats what is so weird. She use to make good decisions, and plan ahead.

She was going to school to be an R.N.and making great grades, she quit school after she left.

She had a good job, making good money, and was a model employee for 9yrs. After she left she started having problems at work, she even got suspended for a week. After that she quit her job.

She had a retirement plan, she cashed that in.

Everyone who has seen her says she seems cold, and emotionless. Thats not anything like she was before she left.

And I hate it with every fiber of my being.

Again, sory for the poor spelling.

Gack,

Don't worry about the spelling. I type fast but not as fast as I think so words are often missing. But, most people get the idea.

Affairs change people, it changes them with regard to brain chemicals, like drugs, it changes their morals, and mostly it reveals some very deep failures of logic, care, and thinking.

I am very very pro-marriage. But, given all that she has done to destroy her life, you can reasonably expect that if she returned to your life, she would destroy it as well. That is of course ignoring the mess your life is because of her right now.

Gack, until the affair is over and until she obtains and works on some deep counseling to address her destructive decisions, I would recommend you stay away. Go to plan B.

Oddly, plan B may save your marriage, but if that does not happen it will allow you to address the baggage you would otherwise carry on to another relationship. Read up on plan B, and follow it.

I will say that the arguing that was taking place and that led to the original separation indicates neither of you had the tools to be in a good marriage. Please, Please, read here, obtain some of Harley's books, perhaps seek some counseling, and learn better strategies for handling a relationship. You may not be able to save this marriage, you may not really want to as things move along, but you can sure make sure your next relationship is a much more satisfying one.

Just remember, you two have a history, but a lot of it is a bad history. No matter what, you want a good future.

Read, learn, ask lots of questions and consider going to plan B right now.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Protect yourself financially as well. As your W she has the ability to wreck you financially so protect yourself.

Yea, i'm seeing that.

I understand, and am willing to face that battle.

Her relationship with OM will fail, of that I am 100% sure. But without me, she will never get any type of counseling, or help. Of that I am also sure.


Let us talk about Plan-B.

This is complete and utter no contact, correct?
I have not seen her in person in over a month. We only talk to each other once a week, or once every two weeks as it is. And then it is only when OM is not around. She will not communicate with me if he is anywhere near her. Is there any possability of Plan-B working with this amount of minimul contact already established?

Should I attempt getting a PBL to her?

If I dont take any communication from her, how would I know if she has ended the afair?

You are 100% correct. I have not read any of the Harleys books yet, but I have read-
"The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: by John M. Gottman"
This book showed me a ton of mistakes that we both made. I had no idea of some of the things I was doing that I should not have been doing.
I plan on purchasing SAA from the Harleys next.
(or is there somthing else I should get)

After she left I did schedule MC for us, she came to the first one, cried, said she loved me but hated me and said she wanted to save our mairrage. She never came to another one. I still go, once a week, but it is IC now.

Actualy, our history was great up till about 2yrs ago. Even after that it was only bad every now and then. But towords the end, it got worse. And yes, I want a good future.

Not really a problem. I already gave her everything and we didn't own a home yet. The only thing she could try for is my retirement fund.