Don't forget this point I brought out before. Adoptions has told me that I can adopt this child AS LONG AS there are no ugly custody disputes involving even the biological children. They say the just don't want to see this baby in the middle of that kind of mess!

So...I can't adopt if their is a custody dispute & I can't adopt if WW returns home. This really is a thin tightrope I'm walking!

If I refuse to let WW see the baby EVER, then of course she decides to fight for the other two and I lose.

If I let WW see the baby and Adoptions finds out I lose.

If WW comes to her senses and seeks R (legitimately) and I allow her to return home I lose.

If I attempt to protect my son legally from WW, she fights me in court and I lose.

If I decide to not MAKE my older son and daughter visit as was planned, WW pays her attorney to fight me for custody...and I lose!

What else CAN I do. I am allowing WW to see the baby ONLY in the privacy of M's home or the home of another of her family members whom I trust. I have instructed her that she cannot EVER take this child anywhere in public!

WW really doesn't even believe that I was told she was to have no contact. She told M that she wanted to see it in writing or talk to adoptions herself. If she calls or goes to DSS in person, she will no doubt show her a** when they tell her I was being truthful, at which time, I lose again! My only hope there is to have the supervisor whom I spoke with on Friday email this to WW BEFORE she has a chance to call or go there herself.

You see, most people in my situation only have to deal with the emotions surrounding their breakup. I am being forced to deal with this sticky adoption situation as well. I am trying to do what's best for the child and keep her in the only home she has ever known. My other two kids and I really do love her with all of our heart. She IS my daughter and their sister. If WW causes my kids (and I)to lose her after they have already lost their mother, they will HATE WW for it...and so will I!

Wow... Ok I see why you want to let WW see the youngest if WW wants to. I didn't realize you were only allowing supervised visits, I thought WW was taking youngest DD home with her. I agree, you are walking a fine line and doing the best that can be done in light of the adoption issues.

*sigh* I don't see how WW is ever going to get her soul back. It's like she's turned completely to the Dark Side.

I wasn't originally only allowing supervised visits, but at this point I must to protect the baby (not a bad idea for oldest son either).

I researched NPD (narcissism) most of the night...WW displays 80-90% of the symptoms I've found. It would seem I am an "Inverted Narcissist," only happy (in the past) with those with NPD. Thanks to whoever suggested it.

AW3 -

Just wanted to say - admire your steadfastness and faith during this trial.

You are definitely walking a razor thin edge. Be very careful. A WW in the throes of an A is very dangerous. Your WW has put her self in a very unusual position of losing everything.
She has left the home without the kids without a separation agreement and not providing CS. Very rare.

So even though there are similarities to all A - there are no cookie cutter plans. Each situation is different.

Usually the family courts are so heavily weighed in favor of women with children that the BH who is unaware loses everything (family, home, marital assets and family net worth.) Basically the CS and Spousal support being paid by the BH becomes the OM's beer money.

Some of the opinions and advice from the other gender are from their perspective and not from a BH perspective.

Often is the case - the WW is 3/4 out the door by the time of PA anyway. Even though men generally can Plan A/B and compete for the WW longer - the WW A sometimes forces the BH to do Plan D sooner for strategic reasons. In most cases the best hope a BH has is getting 50% custody - very rarely will a BH get full custody. There have been a few. The good news is that your children may be old enough to give their opinion to the court. If you even get to that point.

Keep up your plan. Work to get the adoption settled and let G-D work on your WW. You will have opportunity for WW drama later. Your sanctuary from this chaos now is Plan B.

AB, I realize you are stuck between a rock and a hard place due to the adoption issues. Just for "creative thinking sake" what would you do if there was no baby to adopt here?

If you took the baby out of the equasion (in your mind) how would things be different? How would you handle the situation with your wife then????

I fear this for you:

Your wife is such a smart master manipulator that she very well KNOWS about the baby issues and will work it "her way" knowing you have the baby in the balance. She is clearly and aggressively going to put you in a bind and use the "baby" as bait to control you.

She knows full well she can use this baby as bait. That is why I would not respond to her calls, go as dark as possible, and avoid confronting her. The darker you go, the less she can get you on the phone to manipulate, and the less she can play the court system and adoptive system.

If you do not answer her calls or "get her messages" then you are not forced to bring the kids over there, now are you..?

Nothing will control you as well as fearing that this adoption will fail. Your wife will use this fact for all it is worth to keep you manipulated and under her thumb.

What if you recorded every word from your wife, etc and gave it all openly to the adoption agency? Please dont let the fear of losing the kid come in the way of what you need to do to protect yourself and deal with the wife!

all waywards are functioning as narcissists

This is not a diagnosis - unless made by a mental health professional.

It is fine and proper to view her current behavior as narcissistic - but she may or may not have a disorder of the same name.

for clarity

Pep

What I said was:


In other words, IMHO my mom and your WW exhibit some signs of narcissism, and it helped me to learn techniques of dealing with narcissists. I am not saying anything about a clinical diagnosis, I assume you aren't going to prescribe any drugs to her (I don't think there are any for narcissists anyway). But if you find some techniques or strategies that help *you*, then I think that's a good thing.

Here's an excerpt from http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/howto.html

(first the disclaimer)



I think the detailed strategy I was thinking of came from a book. It described how to sit and stand so that you don't (I'm prolly not using the most correct terms here) so you don't become too enmeshed or give them power or feed their egos. Also, things you can do with your hands, eye contact (I think it said to keep eye contact to a minimum) etc. I couldn't find the details online so maybe it was in a book. If you're interested I can figure out which book it was.

A couple other important quotes from the "Aftermath" section of that website:


and an important disclaimer:


Let me know if you're interested in which book helped me by describing techniques to use.

Happy Father's Day, AW3!

I think the effort you put into being a good father for your 3 kids is awesome.

I wholeheartedly agree Jayne.....HAPPY FATHER'S DAY AB!!!!!!

Thank you both...and, Happy Father's Day to all the other dads out there.

Not much time to comment for now; but, I would LOVE to know the name of the book you are talking about on NPD. The more I read, I am convinced WW is not manic-depressive or bi-polar (which CAN be treated), but certainly is at many points and in many ways a narcissist!

5 texts to me today from WW. 4 texts and 2 voicemails to my son. 4 texts and 1 voicemail to my daughter. NO RESPONSE from ANY of us.

PLan B really does suck sometimes, and, YES, I know I shouldn't even be reading her texts. But, watching her wiggle, even in writing, can be reassuring at times.

I'm back to my pre-emotional WW meltdown state. Happy and content and enjoying my children. Equipped with the knowledge now that WW will do or say ANYTHING to draw me back into her web of deceit, I can now return to enjoying life and improving myself once again. I am no doubt a better man today than I was 7 weeks ago...I'll thank her for that at some point!

What sort of things is she saying to you? And what approach is she taking with the kids?

I have to tell you, I am very concerned about the kids' emotions. I really feel for them being used as human yo-yos. Yes, I feel for you too, but at least you are a mature adult. No child should ever have to worry about their mother's mental state like this, or whether she is just manipulating them. It's a shame that their inoocence has been stolen.

I'm glad you're getting to a better place. Can you discuss how counseling is going with the kids? Your son is at an age where this can send him down a long, hard road of hatred.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking too.

She just says things like, "Where are the kids? I have a right to speak to them. Have them call me," On their phones, it's things like, "Don't forget I love you. I hope you're having a great day. You know I love you still, etc."

As of yet, I have had NO LUCK finding a counselor. I would like to point out however, that my son is functioning completely as normal when not exposed to WW. He doesn't take her calls, and there is only tension on his face when he is forced to visit. I do agree that he needs to speak with someone, but I am confident at this point that he is okay...when away from her. His resentment at this point is directed ONLY at her.

Do you have any household projects that need done? Working side by side with your son is an excellent way to get him to feel safe to tell you how he's feeling. It's an old trick from way back, but it works! Clean out a flower bed, or build a bookcase, etc., together. Give him a safe way to talk to you about how he's feeling.

CP, remember, I work from home. I am with my two oldest children every day now that school is out (the baby does have a sitter). Though I am occupied taking calls much of the day, we are able to eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner together. They get up at 7am and workout with me before the baby wakes up. We go swimming virtually every afternoon. We play video games together; and, yes, we have worked side by side as father and son on various projects. He has confided in me exactly how he feels. He feels that WW chose OM and her job over he and his sisters. He's mad as he** that she abandoned all 3 of them and that he could possibly lose his baby sister because of it. etc.etc.

I have to remind myself at times that I AM talking to a 12 year old. My current strategy is to get him to talk about his own life. You know, sports, girls, cars, etc. WE've all dwelled on this mess long enough.

My daughter is not as open about her feelings. I really think this is affecting her more than my son, but she isn't as bold with WW or open with me about it. A young girl needs a mother, I just hate that the one God gave her decided to seek greener pastures!

Through research on narcissism, I also realized that I am quite possibly an "inverted narcissist" meaning, I am only happy when suffering at the abuse of a narcissist and attempting to please their every whim. WW is the only woman I have ever truly loved (though I did date a few others before), so maybe I had just accepted that my life was normal and that all wives treated their husbands the way I was.

When time permits, I will reveal many other reasons why I am convinced my WW has SOME form of NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). I realize that I am not qualified to diagnose her, but I also realize that I am the only person on earth who has lived with her and seen her exhibit most of its symptoms. She would probably even manipulate a counselor into thinking all of the blame for our seperation lay on me! I know the truth!

I understand completely and feel for you! My oldest is 12 and she is very upset with WH because of the pain he has caused everyone, including me. She lashes out more at her sisters and myself, but when she does speak of him it's with an almost adult awareness, it's crazy! Do you find yourself saying, "out of the mouth of babes"?

I hope that you find a counselor soon. It's so hard on children. I was a child of divorce and dealt with other parental issues and it really influences future relationships, no matter how hard you try to have it not. Hopefully, counseling will help him heal and deal with everything. Good luck

Abandoned,

Knock off the self-diagnosis stuff. ANd quit trying to diagnos your W. You are neither trained nor impartial enough to be playing junior psych. OK?

Your son does need someone besides you to speak with and so does your daughter. They are both in effect losing their mother as assuredly as if she had died. At least that is how it is likely to seem to them. Further, it is not only your W's actions that will keep them away it is your tacit approval of their behavior toward their Mom.

Being a guy, and someone who hates adultery I certainly side with your point of view. HOWEVER, as a parent I will tell you it is important that your kids KNOW you feel they need a mother and that mother is THEIR Mother. If your W walks completely away that is one thing, but she is trying to stay in their lives.

No matter how much you hate it, it is YOUR job to see to it that they are in her life.

Your children have a whole life time to hate their mother. You need to make sure they have time now to learn to communicate with her. I know you have posted that she has abused your son. However, you did not report it. It is either true and something you worry about or it is not. YOUR CALL.

Which leads me to the question how much of your older children's life are you willing to sacrifice for this poor little girl who is in your home as a foster child???

I know this sounds harsh, and frankly it IS HARSH. You are wondering off of the path of a good father and starting to use your children in ways that probably will be found to be unhealthy for them.

Step back, take your hands off of the wheel, and really and I mean REALLY think and pray about all of this. This is a big mess and it will take the wisdom of Soloman to get through it. IN that regard you need to speak with people, not just here, but people that know both you and your W. You need to back away from some of things you appear to be doing, and start being the parent to your children NOT THEIR FRIEND.

God Bless,

JL