I just want to clarify that I don't personally blame the video games for anything. I played MMORPGS too up until recently. I was able to play them and stop them as I pleased because I have a steady supply of real life friends and an even more steady supply of real life work to do. I as well as everyone else I have known that quit playing them seems to have the same outlook on them after they quit. We all can't believe how much time we spent on them and how much more stuff we were missing out on when we played them. You can not expect to get anything out of them unless you devote a lot of time to them. after all, you are in constant competition with the other 8 billion people who spend 12 hours a day playing them. That is the very reason I see no room for it in a marriage. A full time job plus a full time family leaves no room for a full time game that many who play act as though is more important than a job or a life.

As for myspace, as a musician I can see a huge potential in myspace for finding new music that you would not find anywhere else. It is my number one source for updates on my favorite bands. It's free advertising for small timers like myself who just want to get their music out there for whoever may be looking. My wife and I both have pages and 90% of our friends are bands. We have my cousins who live on the other side of the planet and the people who were in our wedding and beyond that our pages are set to private so no one can view them unless we approve them as friends. Even after my wifes A I don't have an issue with myspace. Yes some people use it for dating or for stalking or whatever else. Internets are dangerous places but so is wal-mart. My W shares her account info with me so as long as I have access to it, I don't think there is a problem.

I can attest to the whole make yourself look good and show her you can live with out her thing. That is exactly what I did while she was away and she came back. To be completely honest, I was actually enjoying the freedom of not having her around but to me, I still want her in my life. as long as she is loving and loyal and willing to work for a better marriage, I think I can have a very bright future with her in it. Lots of marriages survive much worse than what we went through.

OK, flame away!

Myspace does make sense for bands. I'm talking about using it as a dating site or to meet people.

Or perhaps I'm just salty because that's what my exww used to go out with 5 guys and flirt with countless others. All in a period of 2 months.

So I'm a little salty about myspace and haven't been on it in 2 years.

Well just let me say I am sorry for what you are going thru. You have been a doormat your whole marriage. Once you become a doormat it is hard to get out of that mode.

I have seen you have followed her around and made every sacrifice. Gee I wonder why you are negative when you are married and get nothing out of it.

Why do you want to be married? Ask yourself that question and really think about it. Your wife does not even care about your feelings after sleeping with other men.

She does not even lift a finger to do anything for the marriage. She had done nothing for you in your marriage so I think you need to rethink what you are willing to put up with.

I was a doormat for years so I know what you are going thru. Just realize if you do not stand up for yourself she will continue to run over you. Life can be better even without a woman that treats you like this. Not all women care so little for their husband.

Don't be a doormat. She has run over you for years so I doubt she will change...unless you stop putting up with it. Best of Luck to you.

Hiato...

I'm gonna just address this post here...thouugh I read them all and think you got some good advice...

here at marriagebuilders the decision to stay and try to work things outs is your choice and your choice alone....

but my thoughts is that whichever you choose

rebuilding
or
divorce

you need a plan...
and better yet if their is a time limit...

based soley on this post and the question should I put on smiley face my answer is YES YES YES YES and NO

should you put on smiley face yes you should
should you do it for WW no you shouldn't


but you should learn to do it for you

negative thinking does not serve YOU...well in life...

it is a dangerous thought process to continually engage and a difficult one for others to support and engage in...

and believe me the last thing you want or need is a spouse who engages in negative thoughts as well...recipe for a life of gloom and unhappiness....

based on this account you must deal with the resentment you have built up on the living situations that occured in your life...

you can not claim victimship to all those things you agreed to do
and you can not use them against her when you at any time could have said..
no
it causes great chasms in intimacy....
and great pain in communication...

Imagine changing your communication style...
you like to talk with her
you want to talk with her...
but your continual need for reassurance is an instant stopper...

most likely because no matter how much she does reassure you it's never enough ad you don't believe her anyways...if you did you wouldn't keep going back for more...

it's a cycle doomed to fail...

imagine in your head if you quit engaging in that what would happen and what other things you two just might find to discuss


there is no doubt that she owes you great restitution in this path of recovery...

it is IMPERATIVE that you get in marriage counseling to work on commuication but working out your pre affair resentment is work YOU need to do on your own with a therapist....

if you don't believe people can change....then there is no point in working on this at all...

but if you believe that changes you make you can and often will illicit changes in your spouse then why not try...

your wife probably feels like nothing can does or can do will ever make you happy and you need to look at that and decide if that is true or not....

none of this excuses her affair.....none....

don't ever think that I am implying that.....

your current thought processes do not serve YOU well in your life....

then they don't serve this marriage or any other relationships

be wary of putting all your eggs of happiness in to one basket tied up in the move in august...
remember where-ever you go...there YOU are...

be well

Ark

You need to do what you believe will bring about the best life for YOU. You W, she is not acting like what you envision for a life long partner, is she? She is acting unilaterally, making decisions for herself, in her own best interests. She is acting as a single person, and she is willing to tolerate your presence as long as it does not conflict with her desires. This is not a marriage, and may not have EVER been a marriage. That doesn't mean that it could not become a marriage, but how much more of yourself are you willing to give to bring about something that it appears will never happen?

Your WW does not appear to know what marriage is. You may not have known either when you married her, but you appear to have always known that what you have had with her is not what you wanted or expected.

Sacrificing yourself will cause resentment to build within you. It is inevitable. Forcing or attempting to force her to sacrifice for you is going to build resentment in her. She has shown what she is capable of doing without much cause. Imagine what she will do if she is given a percieved cause? You will be no safer with her in a different environment that you are in your current setting. You will be more comfortable in your home town, but NOT because of her.

She has demonstrated her commitment to marriage, and it is seriously lacking. I think from this point forward you need to focus on YOU, on what you want. I think you make the best decision for you, and perhaps give your W the chance to join you in that endeavor. Should she choose not to do that, then you have the answer to what you should do regarding her.

It sounds as if your WW lacks the perspective required to sustain a real-life marriage. She is (or was) enthralled by the trappings of a virtual world and that turned into her # 1 priority. She needs to break the cycle of excitement that she received from the social elements of the virtual world and replace it with healthy real life (marriage-safe) outlets. She should be in counseling with a therapist who understands that type of addiction.

Hiato,

Man oh man where do I start. Ok, Mel and others offered you good advice. I will start with my favorite quote
You have deep resentment for what your W has done and not done.

Let me recap just a few of them: she left you for Europe for the summer.

She prevented you from attending a Prestigous Law school.

She has had an affair...with a loser.

You supported her through law school with little or no thanks just an affair and her own travels.

She as allowed you to be lonely and has not supported you.

She has taken jobs away from you and YOU have been the one to give up everything to be with her.

She is not sure she wants to move with you.

Man she has really dumped on you hasn't she? Further she has done it repeatedly and frankly apparently has no qualms about doing it again.

OR

You could look at this as you have agreed, supported and yes even encouraged each behavior and you have gotten exactly what you have allowed and encouraged.

Hiato, one thing you do is some very intense reading on this site. You have made a few mistakes in your marriage and one of them was making sacrifices that were not POJA'd. What is the POJA, it is called the Policy of Joint Agreement. It basically means you should have never taken any action until it was negotiated to be a win-win situation for both you and your W.

As you go back down the list I just made, few if any of this things were a win-win were they?

My point. It is time you plotted your course. She may change. I would encourage both of you to read His Needs Her Needs and I would strongly encourage you two to really talk.

You have been negative for a good reason. However your negativity is a love buster and it has helped destroy your marriage.

My thoughts are that you are a young man, with no children, married to a woman that has cheated on you, shows little respect for you, and a give a great deal of weight to what SHE wants to do while expecting you to gleefully support her. Personally, I don't have room in my life for such a person. Perhaps you do. It is really your call.

If you want to remain married, you need to change your attitude and that means knocking off the negative but also standing up for yourself. She wins because you fear she will walk away, and apparently she is willing to walk away. It's time you considered if it is time for you to simply walk away.

This is not her fault. You have permitted and supported her behavior so far with the exception of the A which was ALL ON HER. It is not your fault because you were trying to keep her happy. However, in a good marriage making your spouse happy should be a positive, rather than a negative. You don't have a good marriage.

Could it be made good? I suspect it could but BOTH you have a lot of work to do. Is it worth the work and possible failure? That is for you to decide. But, it will not work at all until you stand up for yourself.

If she really wants OM for support, my recommendation is to let her have him and leave her.

I hope something I have said is of help.

God Bless,

JL

Ark: I think what you said is strikingly insightful, its the same kinda thing my wife says to me. I guess it is just hard when you are hurting to not vent about it. I dont tend to harp about past stuff once I am out of it, but while I am in the midst of it I do have a bad habit of complaining. This is something I seriously need to work on changing, I need to try to be more positive and work on making myself happy rather than expecting stuff from her, no matter the situation. Its hard when the problem is lack of female attention, I feel like I am not sposed to get it from anyone but her.

I guess my venting isnt really so much about wanting to be a victim or martyr as wanting her to let me know that it matters to her that i do these things, that she appreciates my commitment to the marriage and to her success. Yes, I encouraged her to take the job in the other town because I know that is what she wanted and I did not want to hold her back, I want her to flourish. And I didnt fully appreciate how hard the distance would be for such an extended period. Moreover, her addiction to Internet games made things much worse than I expected. I guess eventually I saw it as a choice to either drop out of school and move to her, ask her to quit her job and move back with me, or get through the two years while venting about it. Perhaps I should have fulfilled my needs elsewhere, I just always felt that wouldve been dangerous and led to the very thing that she got into.

I dont want to be negative all the time, I have been very excited about moving back to my hometown, it would be the first time she followed me somewhere that I wanted to go, and a lot of things were going to fall into place. I think despite my venting, I have always retained hope that things would be wonderful once we got through this time period, and I have been very positive about the future. I dont mean they would be perfect, there would always be ups and downs, but at least we could be together and deal with things together. But yes, I admit, I couldve done more to see the good I had in the past rather than letting my hurt take control of me. Its hard when the wife u dont see all week comes home and plays video games on the weekend to not get upset I guess. But I hate the idea of telling her she should want to spend time with me rather than the game. I am learning I need to tell her when I am unhappy even if that might mean being controlling.

And I know I need to stop seeking constant reassurance. I am pretty insecure to begin with, so this just makes it worse of course. She is pretty much hedging here whether to move with me, she says her rational side says to go with me, but her emotional side says to go with him. Again, I vent some, but I am here, trying to show her I love her and show her we could have a very positive future together. I need to be better about focusing on the fact she is with me, she hasnt contacted him, and she says she plans to move with me, and not let the hedging get to me so much.

We went to the MC today, and it was good. We are going back next week for individual sessions, and I hope thats helps more. Thank you for your advice.

JL: You are absolutely right, I have totally failed in implementing the POJA. Instead, I would agree to do things that werent in my best interest, because I thought they were necessary for the relationship. When she got into school, I felt that in order to make it work, I had to follow her. I chose to go to school here because I felt like moving across the country wouldve jeopardized things. Most foolishly, I told her to go take the job in the other city because I thought I could deal with the 2 years, but I know I should never have done that. I just didnt want her to resent me for slowing down her career.

I see how I was stupid because my negativity has only made her not love me. I shouldve let her know I needed her to stay, even if it wouldve made her bitter, because it wouldve enabled me to be happier, and likely enabaled me to retain her love for me. Instead, she doesnt appreciate at all that she has this great career before her now, partially because I didnt hold her back, and she just thinks I am negative. I took pride in being the kind of guy that wouldnt keep her from pursuing something she wanted, and now I feel like an idiot.

Anyway, I am definitely moving to my hometown in August, whether she comes with me or not, and she is fully aware of that. I am going to do well at my job and be successful whether she follows me or not. While I sorta dread her waiting until July 31 to tell me she isnt coming with me, I am not going to let her slow me down. But the next 6 weeks will be tough. She admitted to me today she has no physical attraction to me at all, that was tough to accept, but maybe with time that will change, I dunno. Thanks for your advice.

Hiato,

The problem was the things you agreed to were NOT in your W's best interests either. Oh she got her education, but she has a rotten marriage right now. She was a major player in making it rotten but it is because you did not sit down with her and really work out the details before hand and really agree to them.

You will find that if you will stand up to her in a positive manner, rather than a negative manner, her response to you will change. She knows she is doing wrong. WHat she needs to hear is what you want for YOUR future. What you plan for YOUR future. What you regret in the past: not negotiating something you both could work with, not stating your needs more clearly, and somehow losing her respect. Then leave it at that.

You need to tell her that you hope she joins you, but if it will make her happier to be elsewhere, that is where she should be.

And then my friend you move on with your life. I know this doesn't sound like marriage building, but it is in the sense that you offered her forgiveness, but it was wasted as she is still in her affair. Until the affair is over, you have little chance. I would expose to her family about her affair if they don't already know (you may have said that already), but Hiato you need to respect yourself, before anyone else will respect you.

Work on that, work on your future, and work on exposing the affair. But also realize until it is over, you have no chance.

God Bless,

JL