I found out this last weekend that my H has been lying to me since D-Day 2 1/2 yrs ago. I guess I knew he was lying and have told him I felt there was a big part of the A he hasn't told me. Just a gut feeling that hasn't gone away. It has been a non-stop merry-go-round of him telling me he is telling the truth then me finding out he was lying and is still ongoing. I am numb once again only this time, I don't feel I want to continue trying in this M.

The only problem is that I feel trapped here. I have been dealing with a chronic illness for several years and my health has declined rapidly from all the lies and stress. So much that I had to quit my job recently.

After D-Day, I told my H what I needed from him in order for me to continue in this M. He has given me everything except what I need. I have heard so many versions of the story, I still don't know what the truth is. I am back at square one once again. When he tells me he loves me, I want to vomit.

I am so angry that he could continue to lie to me for so long and watch what it has been doing to my health. I can't take the stress anymore! I am questioning now whether or not he was in contact with OW after D-Day. Everything I have read here says it takes about 6 wks for the WS fog to go away with NC. I wondered why my H would occasionally say something foggy after 2+ yrs. of NC as he says.

This is what happened to set things off last Sat.....
One thing I had asked for after D-Day was the pay-as-you-go cell phone he used. Back then he said he got mad and burnt it just after D-Day. I had gone through the burning barrel and didn't find any remnants of it. He told me it was because the whole thing burnt up. (He thought I was stupid and would believe that line).

He then said he would find it. We only burned sticks and brush in the barrel so it should have been easy to find. He dumped the ashes from the burning barrel into the dumpster which was full. He never produced any remnants of the phone. I asked about the phone a few weeks later and several other times since D-Day. He told me he had the burnt parts but would never show me.

Fast forward to last fall...I put my summer clothes away in a small dresser in a spare bedroom and brought out the winter items. Saturday mornning, I went to that dresser to bring out the rest of my summer clothes. In the bottom drawer under my clean clothes, I found 3 pieces of a burnt cell phone. When I asked him how it got there, he said it had been there for a long, long time and I must have not seen it when I put my clothes away.

This is just one small example. There are too many to list here. I feel like I am being played for a sucker. Keeps telling me different stories and hoping I will believe one of them so he doesn't have to ever tell me the complete truth. He has convinced every one of our MC's that he was truely remorseful and trying very hard. He would always break down in tears. He even convinced Steve and Jennifer. Now he admits to lying to them too. Made me look like I was being unreasonable.

We had our first MC session with someone local. Once again, my H broke down in tears and the MC said he can see that my H is very remorseful. I, on the other hand was sober faced. I have cried so many tears during and after H's A, I very seldom am able to cry now. I find myself spending more and more time in my bedroom and even eat all of my meals there. I am on AD's (highest dose and was supposed to be a temporary thing).

I can't deal with the stories and the lying. Am I overreacting or do I continue to trust my gut feeling? It has been pretty accurate so far. I am so tired, confused, frustrated and angry. I don't know what to do. Will he ever be honest or am I wasting my time?

TW,
It sounds like he might be avoiding conflict. I learned recently through a good friend on this board that this is what my H does. I used to think it was outright lying, but now I realize (and he has expressed too) that he does avoid conflict based on how he was raised and the issues in his life.

In addition, my H also does not show remorse the "way" that I want him to. However, he writes it in letters and I can hear it that way. He is very guarded with what he shows on the outside, perhaps an internal conflict he is avoiding.

It's not all lost. There is still hope. You've come a long way. Don't let this eat away at you to the point of undoing all the good that you have done. Find ways to communicate your frustration and pain to your H without using LBers.

I have come across "evidence" over the years as well that "proves" that he was not completely honest with me and it's my choice if I want to go back to square 1.

It sounds like you have ALOT on your plate with taking care of your own health.

Does your H take Extraordinary Precautions and do you have ways to consistently verify that there is NC?

Did the 2 of you take the EN and LB questionnaires back when this first happened?

tw, whatm about a lie detector test?

troubled_water,

I'm six years past D-day, and I have a lot of empathy for your husband in this situation. One thing my husband told me was that he wasn't just lying to me -- he was also lying to himself. He got so wrapped up in lies that he couldn't tell the truth from a lie. I also was able to uncover lies post D-day.

In retrospect, I think he couldn't sort out the truth for himself after D-day. He was wrapped up in lying to me, to himself, to co-workers, to his lover... It became apparent to me in what he told me that he was as much of a liar to her as to me.

I wish I could tell you that I've never been in that situation, but I have, which is why I am understanding it. Prior to his affair, he was abusive to me. The affair was 8 years into our marriage. The verbal abuse started on our wedding night. I don't remember when the physical abuse started. I couldn't face it. I told no one. I covered my tracks. The lump in my forehead was covered with bangs. The broken arm was the result of a fall.

I can't remember now when the physical abuse started. There are things I remember -- like counting 42 F-- yous in one weekend. There's the Gottman book I read and I thought "character assassination." There's being dragged into the house. There's being locked out of the house. There are episodes of memory, but basically I tried to shut out the reality and now, years after the last physical abuse, I cannot recover the truth of what happened even though I was there!

From what I hear through you, I believe him that he is sincere but the lies just somehow warped his memory. Don't take personally that he is lying today. I suspect he can't distinguish between truth and lies, even from after D-day. Give him a break. Look at his honesty from today going forward, not about the past, but about today going forward. You may be able to figure out new truths about the past as you go foward, but you may need to accept that you won't know all of the truth about the past.

I've written this before, but I think that the Catholic Church is stunningly accurate in its description of Satan as "The Father of Lies." A person who has had an affair has sunk deep into deception, including self-deception, in order to justify an affair. Help him to get out of the muck. If you focus on the past, you just push him down into the lies he created and lived. I never considered this before, but in a way, the less he can sort out the past, the more painful it may have been for him to violate his own values by having an affair.

Cherishing

Thank you for the great responses!

onlyUcan,

My H has always avoided conflict and the way he was raised may have something to do with it. He was always able to have conversations with anyone else, male or female, just not me. He admits that was lying to me and says it was because he didn't want to admit to himself what he had done. When I have asked questions about the A he has constantly said, I don't remember when he knew the answer. I even wrote out the questions I had. After 3 months of waiting, I saw them accidentally. He had one sentence for each question and those were generic.

Jennifer asked him to write out a timeline. He did. We went through it a few at a time. It was a bunch of lies. He admitted he lied a year later.

I didn't know about MB until approx. 6 months after D-Day. We did the EN & LB. My #1 need is Honesty. SF was in the top 3 but over time, my EN's have gone to 1 which is honesty and I fear that need is weakening now.

Another thing I told him I needed after D-Day was a NC letter to OW but he wouldn't. I told OW's BF but he didn't believe me. OW told him I was the one having an A on my H and she was talking with him for support. OW's BF believed her and they are spreading rumors about me. I then wanted my H to send OW's BF a letter telling him I was telling the truth. I guess I need him to defend me which is something he has never done our entire M.

I feel he doesn't want to do this because he doesn't want to upset the OW's life in any way. He told the OW he wanted to take care of her just before D-Day.

MelodyLane,

You were alot of support for me back then. I just wanted to say thank you again. A lie detector test is still an option. I heard though that if the person really believes their lies it may not be accurate. Not sure. Because his A devistated us financially and I am no longer able to work, I haven't proceeded. For a while, I thought we were moving forward ever-so-slightly, not much but I felt I was moving off square one....until now.

Cherishing,

Thank you for sharing your story with me. It does help.

Quote: "One thing my husband told me was that he wasn't just lying to me -- he was also lying to himself. He got so wrapped up in lies that he couldn't tell the truth from a lie."

I believe this is true for my H also. H told me he would just give me an answer right away not even thinking about it being the truth or a lie. Steve Harley told him before he answered to think if what he was going to say the truth. If it was going to be a lie, he was to ask me if he could get back to me on that one. It didn't work very well because he believed his lies.

My H was honest with the OW and mostly to others with the exception of him telling her that he did all the work at home and I did nothing. He did very little because he was never home. When he was home, he sat with his nose in a book.

I know now that I was verbally and emotionally abused by him starting just after we were married while PG with our first child. He told me I was fat and would make noises and constant degrading comments. He wouldn't take me anywhere in public because he said he was ashamed of me. I was 125 lbs. at 9 months PG. You see, his previous GF's were a size 1 so compared to them I was "fat".

After his dad died in 1999, he started to become more abusive on a daily basis. He spoke to me in an angry tone of voice. If I had an idea, he would say it was stupid. I always listened to him about how his day went at work but if I said anything about my day he said he didn't want to hear about it. In 25 yrs, he never knew what I did at work and didn't think I needed a brain...whatever I did. He would criticize me in front of our friends including OW.

In 2002 and 2003, I got very sick and had to drag myself to work if I could get out of bed. Co-workers convinced me to go to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. My H went with me. The doctor said I shouldn't be alive because my numbers were higher than they ever see. My H heard the diagnosis, but since it was something he didn't know about, he concluded that I was just being lazy. I even printed things off the internet so we both could learn about it but he didn't want to read it.

That is when he says the EA started (2003). He became very abusive then. If I laughed at a joke, he told me to settle down. I am still afraid to laugh out loud. He went on a hunting trip 2 days after I had a serious car accident and was unable to even get myself a glass of water. (He said he had to go because he didn't want to hurt OW's BF feelings.)

I nearly lost my eyesight because he wouldn't take me to the doctor because he was with the OW. I went without medication because he spent all our income on OW. We were 2 wks from losing our house. There are many more examples but won't go into them now.

It's not possible or practical to expect him to remember everything about the A. I am talking about things like...

Question: "Did you have oral sex with OW in the 1-2 yrs of the PA?"

Question: "Did you ever have sex with OW in our house?"

It is things like this that I know every WS would remember. Wouldn't they? These are the things I feel he is lying about when he says he "can't remember". Am I wrong here?

I understand when you say you shut out the memory of your abuse. I am sure I shut out many things also. I have been trying to think of the good things between my H and me in the last 8 years. I have yet to remember even one.

I am becoming more cold inside and distant. I can't get through SF anymore and the times I can finish I feel terrible and inadequate. This is getting worse instead of better.

I don't have the strength to do this much longer, emotionally or physically. How do I get through this before my love for him completely dies?

I hope I am not being too harsh here - but I wonder WHY you continue to put yourself through this?

Have you ever contacted an attorney to sit down and ask all the hard questions, so you would know what your options are?

I am not suggesting that you file for D right away - but perhaps if you could sit down with an expert and say:
1. What would happen to me if I filed?
2. Could I get support?
3. How much?
4. What about my health insurance?

do you have any real proof of his A? That would be very helpful to you as well.

I think that if you had a little more knowledge, you would feel a little more power. You can take control of your own life.

troubled_water,

I hesitate to reply to you because so much of what you say resonates with me.

People can do terrible things and decide to change. Your husband has done terrible things. He can decide to change. It is possible that he has changed.

The key is that it is his decision. If you feel the way you do, why are you having sex at all? Your job is to wait. He needs to create a present today that is so pleasant that you are in love with him. You can't do that by dwelling on the past.

Wait. He needs to come to you to create a great future so that the past fades for you.

I will speculate on this, but I think that your problem may be similar to mine in that we feel guilty about not having unconditional love and acceptance for our spouse. Our feelings became undeniably negative after years of abuse and infidelity. How could this be? My husband once said, "I'm the same person you married." Yes, he is. I just didn't think he was capable of doing what he did. What I have since come to realize is that we are all capable of hurting our spouse terribly. We choose our actions. He cannot choose different actions from the past. He can make new choices in the present and future.

You have put up with a lot, as have I, but you have been married longer. In many ways, the verbal abuse was worse than the physical abuse. "Are you really that stupid?" "You are the most inconsiderate person I have ever met."

How can you love a person who treats you like that year after year after year? It turns out that love comes from how you are treated. That's Harley's theory. I started with the idea of unconditional love and acceptance and it took years of abuse and neglect and finally infidelity for me to realize that lifelong love of husband is possible only if he treats you with care and respect.

Everything you have written has been about his behavior before or during the affair or his not answering questions about the affair. Observe his behavior today. There is no possible way he can make up for what he has done. Give him an opportunity to win you back by letting him focus on today.

Cherishing

PS. I concur with womanoffaith5's view that you should evaluate your options regarding separation. If you aren't in the position to separate, then all you are doing is complaining. You need to know that you can separate.