I'm looking for a general consensus here about this.
If NC is in place, and as far as one can tell has not been broken, and it's been in place for 8 months, is this a bad idea or not?

If one is still a little uncertain about whether FWW would tell you immediately if contact is attempted, even though she says she would tell you right away. Is it a bad idea to test that by making a fake email account for OM and sending a contact attempt to her to see if she would tell me?

I'm wanting a general consensus from you good people before even thinking further about doing this. If feels wrong, but I soooo want to be certain that she would tell me about it. (I wouldn't say anything in the email, just a couple of question marks ought to get the message across.

Thanks,
~MrStrype

That's a really bad idea.

IF you suspect she is in contact SNOOP.

Don't lower yourself to that deception.

Thanks Big K, I appreciate your quick response.

I'm going to Bible Study now, I'll be back on later to see if there are any other's chiming in on this subject.

~MrStrype

Agree with BK...do not lie or deceive. Not for any reason!

SNOOP, DAWG!

I've had the same horrible idea...but I tend to agree with BigK that it is below us. We shouldn't stoop lying.

If you do it and she tells you, then how will you feel? You will have deceived her. If you snoop and find out, you didn't deceive her...you just found out. There's a moral difference I think.

It doesn't mean that we can't dream about the bad things we'd love to do...just don't let them consume us. I actually wished I could mess with OW...email her posing as H to see what she'd do. Pure evil. I have to believe that it isn't a good thing to dwell in.

HTM

You know Mr Strype - you will KNOW if she is in ontact with OM by her ATTITUDE.

What makes you suspect she's in contact?

The 6-8 month mark of recovery (where you are now) is often marked by the BS getting really angry - is this where you are at now?

Another good reason NOT to do this:

If WW has indeed been keeping NC, and now thinks OM is contacting her again, it could trigger all those old feelings again. By now the fog should be lfting, and this could reverse the progress. You don't want to put temptation in her path!

BK,

Not to TJ, but is there somewhere to look for the general mood pattern of a BS? I know everyone is different to a certain extent, but I wondered if there is a common progression...like your comment about the anger coming at about 6-8 months out from d-day.

HTM

Bob Pure did a pretty good timeline - it doesn't fit all cases IMO. I'll see if he can take a look at this thread and post it.

I know he posted it to W2S and LaLa

Bad idea.

If you want information perhaps hide a voice activated digital tape recorder in the house around where she typically talks on the phone. You most likely won't hear her talking to OM but, perhaps, conversations with a girlfriend outlinning everything you need to know.

I tend to think where there is suspicion, there's cause.

Snoop.

Mr. Wondering

MrStrype, do you know that a wayward is supposed to AVOID tempations so they are not triggered? What you propose is tempting her so she will be triggered. You won't learn anything that you didn't already know, that she is tempted and can be vulnerable to adultery.

It would be much better for your marriage to set things up so she is NOT tempted. For example, only use the computer when you are together, create total transparency so it would be impossible to have an affair.

I agree with the others that you should SNOOP. Some serious snooping, in addition to creating an entirely transparent life, will help you learn to relax a little.

OK I'm back from Bible study. Thank you for the responses everyone.


Actually her attitude has been rather great. She is very affectionate these days (more so than even pre-A), and there is absolutely no reason for me to suspect that she's in contact. I know where she's at at all times, and I have all he passwords etc. There is transparency. I am at a place where I trust her again. But then there's sometimes this little voice in the back of my head saying "you trusted her before, too, look where that got you."
It's probably just me being paranoid. She has told me several different time when I've asked her that she would tell me immediately if he did try to contact her, But I would like to be 100% certain that that's the truth, instead of say 85% certain, know what I mean?
But no, there isn't a reason for me to suspect her of breaking NC.

And I have actually already gone through the being angry part, I'm not saying that I NEVER get angry about it anymore, but now it happens so seldom that I think I can say that I'm pretty much over that.

Thank you for your response and reasoning. And like HTW, I, too, would be interested in seeing Bob Pure's timeline.


You're right about that, of course. And NO, I do not want to put temptation in her path.


She doesn't have any girlfriends that she talks to like that. The only one who really knows and she's talked to is her niece, but I've also talked to her niece and we've all three talked. I actually do have a recorder that records both sides of a phone conversation automatically, but I haven't used it, as she doesn't talk on the phone at any length to anyone, and never tries to hide with the phone or anything like that. There isn't suspicion about contact, I just want to be certain that she'd tell me if there was an attempt. I guess there's really no way to be 100% certain except by trust, eh? (That is unless he actually did attempt contact and she told me).


You're right of course.

Hi MrStrype!

I posted it to Hicktownmommy's thread, too, but here ya go!

From Mr. Bob Pure...

Thank you Resonance!
~MrStrype

Welcome!

From the definitions above, I'd say the one that most describes where I'm at is #9, Resignation. My idea of wanting to be 100% certain that she'd actually tell me if OM attempted contact I think is like a last obstacle to overcome in order to have complete faith and trust in the marriage again.
~Mark

With the recent changes in Bob's marriage I do wonder if he would still agree with that list actually because I found it quite different to my recovery.

Having a fully repentant FWW makes a huge difference. I know that LaLa and MrsW don't agree with those steps either.

Big K,
I don't entirely agree with that time line either. I know that it doesn't describe my steps to recovery...oh yes, SOME of it, but not the whole thing...and not necessarily in that order for the items that I've gone through either.

Mr S,

I came very close to doing what you proposed.

Here's how I talked myself out of it. Many thoughts on the idea.

Let's say you create the email account and send the email.

Possible scenarios:

A. She has been in contact already via email, and this "new" email comes from out of the blue, from some strange email address and has this bizarre message in it. It is supposedly from the OM, but since she is already in contact with the OM, then WTH? She is immediately suspicious of the email, and realizes it is a trap from you. She tells you about the "attempted contact", you are reassured, FALSELY. She tells OM that you are suspicious, they take their renewed contact futher underground, and the affair is much more difficult to expose or discover. But you believe everything is okay, because she has told you about the attempted contact, AND, YOU FEEL GUILTY ABOUT YOUR STUPID AND DEVIOUS PLOT, AND ABOUT LYING TO HER ABOUT THE EMAIL. Ultimately, you would probably end up confessing about the email to her anyway.

B. She hasn't been in contact with OM. But she knows his email address. You make this one up, send the email, now she has this strange one. She's not sure what's happening, doesn't want to arouse you, not sure what to do, as she didn't start this. She doesn't even want to start it up again. It is NOT a familiar account, and she knows that she has nothing to worry about - because she has a very clean record regarding no contact. She decides it is not from the OM, couldn't be, because she knows his address and that is NOT IT. She deletes it, not even sure if it IS the OM at all, because she deletes it without even being sure that it was a renewed attempt at contact - because after all, she says to herself, it actually could have been someone fishing, it could have been spam, it could have been anything. Her reasoning is all over the place, but because she is NOT GUILTY, she believes that there is no contact in place and no reason to stir this pot. If it was just question marks, or an unclear message, there wouldn't really be anything to tell you about, and if you have her email passwords anyway, then you had every opportunity to look and see it yourself. The delete button it is, and "gone".

C. She sees it, tells you, and gives you a printout. You feel like a complete idiot. Then, out of guilt and shame, you tell her what you did. As a result, you are left trying to explain why you are acting like this, trying to trap her, lying to her, trying to set her up, lovebusting, and not even giving her the respect of recognizing the good things she is doing to try to repair the marriage (which you do admit she is doing).

D. She sees it, tells you, and gives you a printout. You feel like a complete idiot. But you don't tell her, because you think that it will cause problems. You go on in your marriage with this very disrespectful lie underlying your interactions, and that underpins many of your interactions. The shame you feel results in creating distance between the two of you, and she doesn't even know why - and she is working really hard to get closer to you. Not a real great way to build a healthy marriage, ya' think?

E. You send it, she responds, and you "catch" her "in contact" with the "OM". Now what?????? You have backed yourself into a corner! You have to expose your own lie and deceit in order to show her that you caught her. She could easily say to you:

I KNEW IT WAS YOU TRYING TO TRAP ME!

And how could you prove otherwise?



So, when I thought it through to the end, I realized that none of the outcomes was very good. There weren't any pots of gold at the end of those rainbows.

If you want to know if she is in contact, install a keylogger. Follow her. Get a voice activated recorder. Check her cell phone records. Track her emails. Hire a PI.

Don't stoop to being a liar or deceiver yourself. It will backfire.

SB

I see very little moral difference between "snooping", such as tapping phone lines and secretly installing a keylogger, and setting up a trap as described in this thread.

I'd take it a step further and say that when the WS agrees to be completely transparent and honest, that implies that small "tests" are OK as well.

Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

Does it require a level of deceit? Yes, but it could also bring peace-of-mind and security to the BS, which in turn could help the marriage.

Of course, it has to be done properly. The more you know about the OP and the A, the better.

It may or may not produce solid evidence, but if it makes you feel better I say go for it.

At least you're not scheming in order to hop in the sack with some dishrag prostitute.