I have a very complex situation that is starting to make my worst fears feel like they are being realized. I have known my wife for 12 years now and we've been married for nearly 1 year. We dated 12 years ago for a very short period of time and have remained friends up until 2 years ago where we became serious. She has a rather crazy past and I'm one of the few people who actually knows of it.

For at least 8 years of her 12 years of employment she's been romantically involved w/ her married boss. They have have a very close and very non-professional relationship. She said the romance part of the relationship ended about 3 years ago and she once described herself being fascinated w/ the relationship but realized it was not healthy and she had to put it to an end. During the entire time that she was seeing her boss, she often had boyfriends and actually lived w/ one for 2 years - we will call him Jim. She had actually became pregnant w/ Jim while she was living w/ him and lost the baby through miscarriage. After the misscarriage, she fell into a year long depression and her and Jim ended the relationship. She said after the misscarriage, she became very blamefull and angry towards Jim. A few months after her misscarriage, she called me and confided in me that she didn't know the baby was Jim's or her boss's.

She has since had a son w/ another guy who shortly left the picture and has not been involved in any shape or form. She is currently taking legal actions to have him removed from all parental rights and this process should be completed w/in the next couple of months. Her son is now almost 5 and she designated her boss and his wife as his legal godparents which I find quite disturbing since his wife agreed out of kindness and not knowing the relationship that was going on behind her back.

My wife and I have talked about this in great length - almost until exhaustion. I give her credit for being as candid about the relationship as she was when we first started talking about it. I did find some discrepancies when she said the romantic part of their relationship ended. One time we spoke - she said it was right after she had her misscarriage, and another time she said the relationship lasted 8 years which would put it right up to the doorstep of when we started dating again.

It took a lot for me to decide to take the chance and trust her enough to marry her. She feels that she has given me enough time to discuss the matter and feels it's time to move on and not talk about it anymore. I felt comfortable w/ this until a few about a year ago - actually right before we decided to get married. A few things flagged me that they were still closer than I had thought. The first incident occured when we borrowed one of his company cars to drive up to her parents for Christmas. When we got back, he showed up unexpectedly, wanting to know if he could take the truck back. She exploded on him (I wasn't there) and was mad that he didn't give her any warning about picking up the truck before she could clean it. It struck me very odd that she could talk to her boss like this w/out any form of retribution. That happened on a Friday and when she came back to work on Monday morning, he was nice as could be and took her out to lunch. Later that day, she called me at work w/ absolutely nothing to say (which was highly abnormal) and was trying to make uncomfortable conversation.

Another incident that threw a red flag was when she got in a huge argument w/ him on the phone one night when I was over at her house. She refused to go into work for 2 days and I saw emails from him that were almost trying to calm her down and stressed the need to find reconciliation. She definitely had the upper hand in the situation - she's the boss, not him.

Now, a few weeks ago came the real show stoppers. Her boss needed to get knee surgery and she took off nearly the entire day to bring him to the hospital and brought her computer to the hospital to work until he was ready to drive home. I asked her why she needed to be the one to take him to the hospital and not his wife and she said that his wife was out of town w/ their daughter.

Now the latest development last week. My wife has a friend that has started a job at my wife's company and has come to live w/ us for a few months until she gets on her feet. During the interview w/ her boss, her friend blurted out that the only thing that concerned him if she was hired was the fact that my wife might want to go out to luch w/ her instead of him all the time. My wife, later that night, took me out on a walk to talk about what her friend said and explained it as since she was the oldest employee and had started the company w/ him, that he often went out to lunch w/ only her so they could catch up w/ work and discuss new ideas for the company and also, so he could vent about his other employees to her. She said the other 2 employees were not good at forward and creative thinking like her and her boss and they would only impede progress if they joined in on these meetings.

I'm just about to the point where I want to hire a 007 to follow them around during the day. What are the chances of these two not still having a romantic relationship? At times it seems impossible that they aren't. They definitely still have a big emotional relationship and that's not undeniable. I need some form of closure to this before I drive myself crazy thinking about all the possibilities. Talking about the situation anymore than we've done is not an option anymore.

Any suggestions on what to do next?

Have you told your W that her continued contact with the OM is hurting you? W needs to find a new job. W needs to find new GP's.

You need to put a key logger on her computer. Then consider a PI.

I'm ready to get out and I've already been spying like crazy but haven't really turned up anything tangable. I have put keyloggers on one of her work laptops and gained access to nearly every login that she used on that computer. I have also put recorders in her car when she goes to work but I think they take his car when they go to lunch. I also got a couple of her boss's logins but haven't really found anything out except that their little lunches together are very important.

I'm also going to buy a GPS tracker soon and try to find out where they go during the day. I feel like the only way I can get the closure I need is to catch them in the act. She's so good at hiding things and denying things even when she gets caught. If I don't catch it will hard to get the exit I'm hoping for.

The one good thing is she seems to be in denial about how obvious her relationship is w/ this guy so I think catching them won't be the hardest thing to do. The biggest problem is that while all this is going on, I'm at work and a PI is very expensive.
I can only imagine what her other employees are thinking when they go off to lunch together all the time and they are never invited.

The other crazy thing is that her kid totally loves me to death and I just don't understand why she would risk her son's emotional well being like this.

Look at the way your W treated people before you married her. Why do you think she's going to treat you any different? You're just next in line. You even had the advantage of KNOWING what was going on with her and her boss before you married her, unlike the previous boyfriends. And now you pretend like you don't know what's going on? Look back at what was going on with the last guy, while you were on the outside looking in. You have become THAT guy.

Sorry, but your W sounds like a pretty horrible person that uses people and has no respect for anyone, including herself. She's always been this way it seems, you've been witnessing it for 12 years and yet you STILL married her. I find that incredible. WHY would you marry someone like this?

I would suggest that you call OM's wife and tell her the whole story about the affair, that will have the best chance of ending it. Not to mention the fact that she deserves to know.

You also need to realize and accept that until you achieve no contact (NO CONTACT, EVER, For life!) between your W and OM that this affair WILL continue. This is not a normal run of the mill affair. This is what is called a Long Term Affair and they are much more difficult to deal with. One of them is going to have to leave thier job. I suspect you are going to come up with many reasons why this isn't necessary but until this happens, you don't have a chance at a healthy marriage, and given your WW's history, you probably don't have much of a chance at that no matter what happens.

thanks for the feedback. I really don't think I want to try to work this out by asking her to leave her job. The situation at her job is very complex also.

She doesn't have a college degree and this guy basically groomed her for the position and they built this small company together.

The company stands to make a huge amount of money and she's been promised some very large checks (6 figures) if things work out like they are supposed to. If she left that job, she would never find anything close to comparable. On the other side of that, he has been promising her these bonus checks for quite a few years. It's a very symbiotic relationship. She gets a great job, the chance of making tons of $$, and massive job security because of their secret. She has even mentioned the power she wields over him if her job security. She says that she stands his bitching and complaining when they go to lunch as part of her job security.

I really do think I could find out quite a lot w/ a GPS tracker. I doubt nothing takes place at the office because of her other co-workers are there and because it is a very small office as well. I think they have to be going somewhere else if they are seeing each other.

The crazy thing is I could blow everything so far apart from the list of business and personal emails I've gathered. If things came down - the damage I could do would be epic.

Yes, I figured as much. Of course there are so many extenuating circumstances that make your WW's employment so unique and precious. What you really mean is that when push comes to shove, your WW will choose her job over you, no doubt. You are so sure of this that you are afraid to risk rocking the boat. Telling OMW is out of the question as well, as that might risk her employment too. So, you are stating that you are unwilling to try to bring about what must happen in order to end the A and give yourself a chance to recover. You may believe these things are "options to consider" or something. They aren't. They are absolute essentials.

Thought about not even bothering to post, because its fairly obvious that you accept, perhaps even seek, this type of behavior in the people you associate with. You had so many more warning signs about your WW's true character before you even married her than most BSs have. She pretty much slapped you in the face and screamed "I AM GOING TO CHEAT ON YOU!", and you still married her. Its almost hard to even feel bad for you given that you walked into it with your eyes pretty much wide open.

Let us know when you are serious about trying to fix yourself, and perhaps even your marriage.

I don't want to stay w/ her at all at this point. I want out like a jailbreak and the only thing I want is closure by catching them at what they are doing.

I don't know it's the healthiest closure but it definitely would be the one that would give me the most satisfaction.

It really does boil down to one simple question.

Are you willing to share your WW with her Boss / OM?

As long as WW is working with Boss / OM you WILL BE sharing her emotionally / physically.

NO CONTACT FOR LIFE is how you end affairs and keep them from rekindling.

Get a GPS or a cell phone with GPS in the vehicles.

Make sure that your device will give you real time information.

You can then feed that to a PI or follow up yourself.

I doubt that the "closure" information you want will difficult to obtain.

Good Luck!

I understand wanting proof. I just think that you don't need it to know the truth about what is happening.

If you don't want to recover the M, and are unwilling to do the things that would be required to recover the M IF you wanted to, then the next step IS clear, and that is Plan D.

I would suggest that you start by securing your finances. I would suggest you do this then execute Plan B and initiate D proceedings simultaneously. Its possible, but unlikely, that this will bring your W around, but that isn't what Plan B is about really. Its about removing yourself from harms way and getting yourself into a safe situation where you can begin to heal without the emotional turmoil.

You should study the MB Basic Concepts to learn how to build a healthy relationship in the future. This will at least help you avoid this type of situation in the future.

And if you're really just wanting to throw a wrench in the A, call OM's wife and tell her the history of the A and that you suspect it is still ongoing. She deserves to know, and may in fact be able to help you piece together proof.

I agree - as far as their schedules go - they only have time to meet between 11 and 3 each day. She never leaves suspiciously any other time - ever.

I don't think it would be hard w/ a real time GPS tracker.

The boss thing is the line in the sand - if it were any other issue, I would fully be about marriage counseling.

The boss issue has always been the deal breaker for me and now I'm rather excited about blowing it to bits.

Please tell his wife.

She needs to know so SHE can make the decisions about HER life that HE and your WW have taken out of her hands.

Exactly! Whatever YOU decide about your own life, you walked into this with eyes wide open. OMW is not so fortunate. Have you ever considered that the 5 y/o is her boss's OC?

It seems that I only have a highly educated guess that they are doing more than maintaining their emotional relationship.

I really want to get hard proof that there's more going on so I can tell his wife. I don't feel that I have the right to use the nuclear option unless I have 100% proof that there's a physical relationship still going on.

There are too many kids involved to blow this thing out of the water over a past history, suspician that somethings going on, and a emotional relationship.

Judging from the physical characteristics of the kid - I would definitely say he's not her Boss's kid. He looks MUCH more like her and the biological father.

Ah.

So now YOU are making decisions FOR the MOMW.

How generous.

You do realize....

That by not telling your WW's Boss's Wife...

You are ENABLING the affair to continue.



You are playing a roll in WW & Bosses adultury.

Boss's wife NEEDS to be told.

Boss's BW needs to know what is going on in her own life.


Do the right thing for yourself AND Boss's BW.

EXPOSE THE TRUTH!


Nothing less will allow you to walk away from this with your dignity intact.

Stay Strong!

For everyone who is advocating running out and telling his wife - let's think about this for a second.

So I call her up and say: "Listen to this story I have for you - the only proof I've had is from someone's mouth and educated suspicians"? Do you think for one second they would admit to it!?? Here's me: A 40 year old guy that looks like a kid and still get carded for buying things like lighters. Here's him: A very wealthy successfull man who comes from a well known family who's built half of this city. Here's my wife: a short asian girl who listens to punk rock music and if you put them together - everyone would laugh at the couple they would make. Just the thought of them being a couple would make everyone laugh.

So where would that get me? He would deny the hell out of the entire thing and it would blow up in my face. There is no possible way to tell his wife without him simply lauging it off and saying "who you going to believe". It would completely end right then and there and he would keep doing what he's always been doing.

Noone here will even convince me there's a remote chance in hell of telling his wife and having her believe me unless I have some hardcore proof. All it would do it blow up entirely in my face.

Further more, one of my biggest character flaws most people know about me is being highly paranoid - I'm known for completely jumping to conclusions and acting on paranoia. This is one more thing that would make the story coming from me that much more of a joke without hardcore proof.

Have you considered that she may know more than you? Its pretty unlikely that she has no clue what is going on, between the two of you the whole story might come out.

But, I'm sure you are right. Your situation is very unique and no one here has any idea what you are going through and what you should do. [/end sarcasm]

Let us know when you need some help doing something effective.

I'm with Tyk, 0plus...and not because of his sarcasm.

Here's you writing a certified letter for OMW's signature only...saying, Hey, here are copies of emails. My wife told me their affair last eight years, and I suspect, it continues to some degree. I am not trying to save my marriage or do harm to yours. I am sharing this because it's the truth and am leaving my wife because of it."

Doesn't matter if it's going on right now...their contact continues, so the A continues...and the red flags are daily.

When you base your choices on possible outcome, there's self-deception involved. Paranoia is a great signal you're self-deceiving. You're not making a rational decision. Choose from your code of honesty, instead. You knew about the A for years...and you've been listening to your WW tell you her truth as if it is the truth...and it's nowhere close. She's sharing with you the lies she tells herself. She made this BW a godparent for Pete's sake...lying to her face. That boy will be in HIS hands if something happens to your WW, won't he?

Again, fear is a good signal...lets you now folks are crossing your boundaries...trampling them, even.

Respect yourself...you're not crazy. You're a man who talked himself into believing something which wasn't true. She didn't take her vows to herself seriously...she isn't putting her marriage first, she's putting her job ahead of it. Her great big, someday payoff.

Please do the right thing and go ahead and share the truth with those it affects the most...and let the outcome go. It wasn't your actions which will harm...the harm has already been done...like that movie DOA (Dennis Quaid)...he's already been murdered...the OMW may or may not know it yet. You saying being honest cannot be wrong...no matter how you want to back away from it.

The more you hold your fear and not react to it...the less fearful you will be of how you are seen...the more you'll know a solid foundation you really do have...you're standing on it.

Why not contact the boy's father and let him know what a trainwreck his son is involved in right now? How about exposing to her parents and relatives?

Make your choices from your code...you don't need more evidence...the BW may choose to disregard the truth even if she sees them in bed together. Not your concern. Yours is to act honestly or not. Your choice.

You can do this. You can change your life. Were you married previously?

MB can still help in your future relationships, too.

LA