Wow, cat, you gave me a lot to chew on. I have good friends IRL who have made that choice, because they were still toxic and actively sabotaging my friends. I have set boundaries, and they know I'm not going to accept them disparaging H or me anymore. I did speak up the last time my brother said something a few months ago, but my stepfather said something to my mom on the phone a while back that we all heard and I will clear the air with them on that.

H called his buddy this morning, and told him that he has been holding a grudge against him about how his buddy looks down on me. That he wants to clear the air. And his friend actually said he was sorry and wants to spologize to me personally about this. That his buddy sees how I do like him as a person, and he sees how I have reached out to him over the years, and especially recently when his wife announced out of the blue she wanted a divorce. I had sent him an email similar to what I'd say here, about the MB Plan and there being hope for his marriage. For him to be the lighthouse, for himself and his now X. I am totally amazed that H was willing to do this, that HE saw it as something HE wanted to do. It makes me feel a lot more secure that his buddy can be a friend of our marriage again.

I also wanted to update, that H has started noticing what I'm wearing again I have been mostly consistent with the nutrition and exercise, and am down another size, and getting back into clothes that I haven't worn in a few years. This morning, he left early to put his car in the shop, before I was ready, and then I picked him up. I was having a really good hair day, too. He said wow, you look great, where'd you get that? And then I got to tell him, from my closet! It felt SO good!

Good for you! I've been goofing off all year, and just today decided to get back on track and try to lose 10 more pounds for vacation at the end of July.

I'm in one of those funny plateaus right now, where the scale is the same but am at the next hole in my belt. I never used to need a belt LOL. Then all of a sudden the scale will drop, too. What a funny adventure!

Thanks for the encouragement, cat! (((Catperson)))

Hi ears,

So I have a question.

Why did you call your brother to discuss anything with him about your husband at all?

It seems to me that if you are going to talk to your brother it should only be things that are about YOU--not things that are indirectly about your husband.

Here's why: When your brother spoke about the mean things your H said to him, you told him to talk to your husband about it... Yet you were talking to your brother about his relationship with your husband.

My family does this all the time--someone wants the privilege of speaking to me about how they feel regarding something, but they don't want me to respond. Not fair. Not fair to bring it up in the first place, in my opinion.

You have to decide what you want your relationship with your husband to be, and let your H decide for himself. I think you should avoid running interference in any way, which is what you did--only it seems like a one sided interference.

(I mean if you're going to run interference, at least do it so both sides feel heard and validated, kwim? Though I think it's best to avoid it at all.)

Telly, you hit the nail on the head. My brother apologized by phone to me, and then on H's email at the time. H still wasn't comfortable seeing him, and I was trying to fix it for him, to reassure H that my brother will not say anything wrong. But that's me taking ownership of my H's relationship with my brother.

I did validate my brother, but I didn't want to go the step further and say I'll address it with H. In the past I used to make promises on H's behalf, like that he won't say that again, or "I'm sorry, I'm sure he didn't mean that," and that whole thing feels so dishonest today.

I got it confused with the united front we present in parenting. I do that as a parent, too, tell one of the kids that "we" didn't like what they did, and then they repsond, "but Daddy..." and I say, you'll have to talk to your Daddy about that. I do discuss it with H if it bothers me in private, but I think it's important for the girls to feel empowered to talk to their dad directly, too.

Telly, how do you draw that balance between presenting a united front and not owning H's issues?

Well, my daughter's not probably old enough yet for this to be a huge issue... yet... But I have struggled with it somewhat.

I think a lot of the things we do are the same. I listen to whoever needs to/wants to talk to me. I validate, I empathize, I re-state, I summarize, etc. I will sometimes even help D see what's going on with H "I guess you learned something about Daddy. I guess Daddy doesn't like...blah blah blah". And then I will do the same thing as you in terms of encouraging D to talk to Daddy.

Sometimes I will go with her to talk to Daddy, and even begin the discussion by tell him what she asks me to say if she is feeling (as she says) shy.

I guess in my familial relationships, I find myself mostly on the defensive in terms of not wanting to get involved. I should probably not listen/support necessarily at all, but I do that and nothing more. I won't run interference, I won't direct and generally don't tell people how to handle it or give advice.

If they are really stuck, I might offer encouragement or give some advice on how to approach the other person, but that's it.

Hence, I really dislike when people direct me or run interference for me.

When I was getting married, my parents were upset because they pereceived my H to be inviting more guests (though H and me were paying for the wedding). I resisted showing them the lists, because I resented it, and then my sister got involved and I ended up showing her. She "ran interference" and "made everythigng right" (we were both just inviting family and a handful of friends), and I still resent the whole thing to this very day. My parents and the interference... The fact that they pressed me and that she felt she needed to run interference, and that I was so disrespected by the whole process.

At teh same time, sometimes I FAIL MISERABLY. I don't even want to tell you about conversations I've had in teh past with people my H worked with. Shame shame shame on me.

Telly, in my FOO, I have run alot of interference in the relationship between him and my siblings. It's a relationship that is really important to me. I went too far because I wasn't enthusiastic about not seeing my brother, and I didn't know how to negotiate around that.

H is really different this last month. The last time my family saw him, I think a few months ago, he was really resentful about not wanting to be there, and kept making fun of me, and came off like a [censored]. I was really angry at myself for allowing myself to be treated like that. I hold up H in my head like a great role model, so I felt I REALLY let my family down bringing him over like that. We went to visit my Grandpa last Sasturday, who my H always liked, and I was so happy that we could be "normal." I was hoping that before H left for SoCal, we could put this good foot forward to this part of my family, too. Totally out of my power to make happen. The other thing is that my brother was going through a really rough spot, and I thought it would be good for him to have H to lean on for support, as someone who has BTDT. Again out of my hands. I let it go, but after I'd pushed too hard.

Both of these things are out of your hand--but more than that, they shouldn't be the things you are thinking about.

I believe (and I could be wrong, because I am seeing what I struggle with here) that you spend too much time/energy thinking about your husband (and others). Who cares if your H is a good role model, or even if your family likes/appreciates him? Maybe they will lose all respect for him for some reason... okay... worse things can happen.

You should (in my opinion) be spending more time and energy thinking about yourself... what's right in front of you that you want to do (don't want to do, lol!).

In the rest of your life, are you having enough fun? doing enough to take care of yourself? Pursuing things of interest?

Maybe you're doing that great... but I still think too many of your thoughts revolve around H. If you're anything like me (may not be), you could be dealing with the whole "if I take care of him well, eventually he'll take care of me" thing... but perhaps not. Just something to think about.

(Oh, and I grew up caring SO much about my family relationships that I still struggle with the disproportionately important place they've all had in my life)

maybe you wanted to see brother, and it would have been worth it to see him alone... or maybe you weren't ready to see him yet. that's okay--you don't have to be ready.

I don't know. I'm off to the bank. Talked too much today.

I'm feeling the ill effects of being around a 5 1/2 too long, frankly. God help me, I just want her to BE QUIET and leave me alone.

I know that's shameful. If i were honest, I would say I just want her to SHUT UP!!!!! (so mean).

Hi Telly, oh my goodness my kids love to talk! You know what, I told them about the Friends of Good COnversation, and that good conversations have each preson talking equally. I told them about using taking pauses like, "Can you imagine," and "You want to know what happened today," so that I have an opportunity to break in and say something too LOL.

You are right, though, I get into those spots with family where I'm like a bulldog thinking and thinking on something and not willing to see how something plays out. I'm working on that.

I am going to see my brother next week, after H leaves for SoCal. And I saw him while H was in Baltimore. He was going through a rough spot, though, and I felt frustrated not seeing him last week or this week. He's in a lot better spot now, though, without my help I might add. I just had no way of knowing that then. I'm working on letting go and trusting the process.

OMG, Telly. Just wait til she's 17! My D17 talks and talks and talks - just like her father. I don't think between them they have realized I haven't spoken more than 10 sentences in the last 30 days, cos they never stop talking! I mean, I'm grateful she's close enough to me to want to share everything, but Good Lord! But I try really hard to never tell her to stop, you know?

Ears and cat,

It felt so good to admit that about my daughter (lol!). She is actually one of the most polite children I know, but I am her only companion right now... It's pretty much been me and her since baby was born.

I would never tell her how I feel, and I try to find enough for us to do so that it isn't overwhelming, but... I "turned off" the TV about 2 weeks ago, and while it has sparked her imagination, it has also left me the only recipient besides her dolls sometimes--but when it's directed at me it's pretty intense.

She is playing more outside in the little (can't think what it's called) the grass area between teh buildings. And those minutes are GOLD.

H does talk A LOT, and I don't have anyone to talk to here--so I suppose I feel the infringement on my mental capacities at times.

ANyway, thanks for relating, and sorry for the tj!

Running out to the bank and library and post office. Will hopefully listen to nice music in the car. (God help me!)

Telly, what about making a goal of finding one woman with a 5 year old to talk to at the library and one person to talk to in line at the bank and PO?

Well, we're moving in 9 days... so it's been a whirlwind of packing, nursing, taking care of daughter, etc for the last 2 months.

You know how it is. As a result of keeping all this forward momentum, I'm pooped.

It won't be an issue when we move, because once we unpack, we'll be able to connect in the community in a different way... Plus we'll have our own yard.

It's the exhaustion of trying to accomplish everything that's got me fatigued so my brain is even more full.

I can't wait until this move is over...

Telly, I feel for you! I've had more moves than I would ever had imagined! With newborns, oh my goodness! What help do you have or can you line up?

ears...

This is a T/J:

E-mail me if you can.

ears, I gotta leave, we're starting our cartrip in a moment, I just wanted to thank you for all of your support. I saw something might be brewing on another board, and didn't want to fuel the flames any more than I already had. But you are an awesome person and I see nothing wrong with asking questions. *hugs*

OUC, you've got mail.

Jayne, have a great trip!

I'm still working on letting go of the response. Instead of focusing on what I don't want, to identify what I do want, make the thoughtful request, and then let it go. To protect myself with my boundaries instead of having unreasonable expectations of other people to change.

As I've made progress in my marriage, we still do have hard times, but we also have a lot of good times, and peace in my home. Peace that doesn't come with a price tag of staying silent. I am SO grateful to the MB program and the folks here for your help in that.

Getting to that level of peace every day makes it really stand out to me when I'm somewhere that has conflict. I think my radar may be resetting.

I want to share this from Dr. Harley's Four Guidelines To Successful Negotiation. This to me was so hard that it helped me to practice it everywhere. Not just at home, but at work, in my time here.


I think that today, I am at an impasse, and am going to stop for a while, come back to the issue later.

I'd like to share our Alanon closing. I especially like the part about there being hope.