I hear your wanting me to own up to my half of the back and forth. I take responsibilty for my half of the communication that is needed to discuss issues.



Do you feel it's right for you to be able to not answer questions I might have concerning things? Do you feel that helps our situation or hurts it?

Hi ezb, trying to stay out of y'all's discussion, but thought I'd point out an observation about this, to help you:
It doesn't matter what she feels about whether it's right. It IS what she does. If she doesn't want to answer you, she doesn't have to; entirely up to her. She's not married to you. Do you see how your two questions here are passive aggressive? Controlling the situation?

Your help is more then welcome cat.




I don't view it as such. She doesn't have to answer anything she doesn't want to. My conclusion (and yours) was based on that non answer. I feel I was told I was wrong for the way I felt after that non answer so I'm simply trying to convey that and communicate. She is free to do as she wants.

Well, that's certainly your right, to feel that way. But if you're really trying to repave your relationship, it might behoove you to stop and question your reactions when someone points out how you are coming across. Cos if I'm feeling the control, she probably is, too. Which won't get you anywhere closer to reconciling. You questioning how she reacts to you, instead of looking at yourself, is counter-productive. IMHO

Yes, I AM picky. Nit picky, even.



Okay...and I'm a little dense today, as well. You said you took on the majority of the household bills...did you mean major ones? You pay the mortgage, the car payment and the travel trailer payment...does that mean she pays other household debt? Or are you saying she got less to pay than you do...I'm confused.

I would think since you're living in the house you also pay all utilities, car insurance for your car...I'm not seeing majority. And I'm not arguing with you. A great way to attempt to control others is to take on more than your share...and a great way to continue to create and nurture resentment in yourself is to perceive you're taking on more as an act of love.

It isn't. Because it isn't honest.

My intent here is to share all the ways I did what I see you did/and or are doing right now. Means changing your choice of perception, perspective, beliefs and thoughts. I'm repeating.

Because I see you repeating old patterns.

I am curious if you did say to bunny to either show work on the marriage or come get your things...is that correct?

LA

Hi again, bunny...

I'm having a slow perception day...seriously. This isn't you guys not being clear. My half.

Is it true that you have not moved out your personal posessions from your previous marital home? You have divorced ezb...it's final, correct?

I don't understand because it seems like the reverse of living together before marriage...you don't play house (it's fantasy). And you guys are playing divorce, maybe?

I dunno. I know that your half of feeling controlled is also coming from you not exercising your power...you don't answer his calls on NC days...don't read his emails...you maintain your NC regardless of what ezb. I think you get a big false payoff when he breaks NC contact days.

Same for when you don't choose to listen and repeat...when you give no answer at all...when acting from respect (if that's in your code) you would say, "I am not going to answer that question at this time."

You can see all the ways ezb attempts to control...can you see your own? They are there...we all have them...and we see them most clearly when we're examining someone else...how it works.

That car he purchased...you don't owe on it, don't have to drive it and don't have to insure it, correct? Why the resentment still? It's his...your XH's car. You didn't like how you were treated...didn't like the experience or how it turned out...you weren't POJAing back then were you? Did you have the tools you have now? Are you even the same person? I ask because we create our own resentment...no one else can create it within us.

WhoDat here on MB said: Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

I perceive you both getting false payoffs from the poison. You're divorced. You can stop taking it. And when you do, you might also find out where you created it in yourself, through your choice of perspective and intent...and let a lot of recurring hurt, pain, fear and anger go it's way...not trapped in you by your own hands.

Free yourself...align yourself with reality. Own your half...which you really will stop trying to show up ezb...set the record straight--what, for his own good? Lies always catch up with you...I truly believe that. When you deceive here, then you fail and will fail to receive...because you didn't give honestly.

LA

My email was:
You think about it this weekend but I feel you need to start making strides to improve this relationship instead of tearing us further apart or you need to come get the rest of your things.

I have and I do love you more then you will EVER know and I want to improve this relationship but if you can't do that then it is what it is.
xoxoxo

It should be clarified that at the end of thursdays session she informed me that she had other plans for the time of our sunday session.

I can't change how it's perceived, all I can do is state the intention that it is to try to work on things and to understand her feelings.

It was emailed to me on Monday, June 16th at 2:09pm and that is a no contact day. I can send the email to you if needed.


No I do not care to discuss the reason you felt you needed to do it. It was done on a no contact day and that makes me feel as if you were trying to control things again.


It is not the point that it was a frustrating day because it was not. I tried to work with you on the car. You did not care about my input. You listened to your brother before you listened to me.

I will not answer those kind of questions on no contact days when we should not even be talking those days. And I will answer them when I have had a chance to think about them. That is me taking back my control.

You contacting me on no contact days and asking things like that are what is hurting us. We agreed that only if one of us was in the hospital or the house was on fire that we would not contact on no contact days. You have not done that. I also have put up with it by doing the back and forth on no contact days even though in counseling it was said that we did not have to answer.

This email was sent on tuesday so there must be a misunderstanding here as to what emaail we are talking about:

Honestly, ezb, and I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but you're divorced now, right? IMO, divorce means exactly that. It means 'I don't want to ever deal with you again, unless kids are involved. I want to move on and have a new life - without you in it.'

Isn't that what divorce means?

I have found that many times, people will try to soften the blow of some particularly bad news by saying stuff like 'oh, it won't really be that bad, we'll still see each other, it'll just be a piece of paper, it's just a technicality...' when in reality they simply have no intention of doing any of that; it's just what makes it easier to ask for or take whatever it is they are wanting; or it keeps the person from having to face the other person and bluntly saying so long, I want you out of my life now.



This is what catperson said. Is this the case?

xoxoxo




I felt it was frustrating, disappointing and confusing. Many things caused me to feel this way.

I understand you feel I didn't care about your input. We did not make an enthusiastic agreement obviously. I was trying to keep our discussions on the matter private between us so we could do that without showing the dealership there were issues and having them use that against us to their advantage. We should have never purchased a vehicle there without that type of agreement.

I understand that and have been steadily improving on that.

I feel there are many things hurting us right now from getting things out and open for discussion.

EZB, what good does it do to quibble over WHICH email was sent on a NC day? If you have an agreement that a particular day is NC, then you broke your word if you sent ANY email that day.

I have moved most of my stuff out. Only had small amount left at the house that he told me I could leave there if I wanted.



The problem there is that I do answer his emails and text messages because they are usually questions about something. The false payoff is thinking that he has actually learned something but then he contacts me on no contact days. Then during the day he says he will leave me alone now but then does not.


I tried the I'm not going to answer that question tell I have time to think about it. It did not work because I don't get the chance to think about things when I am being contacted.


I am learning the way I do things all over again. So still learning how I control things since I have had no control for so long now.


We purchased the car together so my name is on the loan even against my better judgement the day it happened. What I did not like was the fact that I was asked for my thinking on the cars he test drove but then he did what he wanted. Which was something totally different then what I thought should be done.

He is not paying the house, car, cell phone or travel trailer fully. I am still paying half. He is also only paying half the car insurance even though his car insurance is more then mine.

I do not have less to pay then him. I have my rent and utilities and now a large cc bill.

I'm not trying to quibble just to meerly clarify things properly so it can help. It's been stated and is true that half truths or deception won't help us any or help anyone trying to help us.

Yes I have broken and have also upheld the agreement at times. I will no longer break this agreement and simply try to make improvements. I'm still figuring things out and that takes time, effort and work to implement.

How are you steadily improving on it when you contacted me all day friday and monday when you should not have?

I'm still learning how to deal with my anxiety attacks. I've started meditating, exercising and finding other things to do when they happen. This takes time. I saw your posts last night and instead of jumping in and responding I found something more constructive to do.

Monday was horrible and I apologize for my half of that. Friday I sent 2 emails (+ one forwarded to your other email) and I apologize for that also.

Past those 2 days I have been upholding my end of that and even leaving you alone on contact days also.

Here's a suggestion. Why don't you both just NOT contact each other at all for 30 days? Assign some friend or family member to transfer emergency/bill-related messages and give each other time to breathe.

Ok part of the no contact is to show that you are thinking about what I want and not do as you feel is acceptable. And once again it is about how you feel with no concept of what I have asked for.

Again you want credit for not contacting me when you could be but then can not uphold the agreement you made. It was explained in counseling that when you do the contact on no contact days it makes me not trust you and the things you say you are learning. I am talking about this past monday not a monday months ago. It was also agreed that if there was contact on a no contact day the next day should be a no contact day. That does not happen.

I am sorry there have been so many other no contact days you contacted me. Prime example would be the friday before the last holiday weekend. You contacted me all day. Then I ask for the whole weekend to be no contact and you still contacted me. And on that monday which was normally a no contact day.