Married 3 years, lived together 10.

I finally called my H as I was just going out of my mind. I couldn't stop crying and felt helpless. I promised my H I wouldn't share details of this situation so I can't talk to anyone other than him and here. He said that we should just move on, that he doesn't think some phone therapy or workshop is going to help how he feels. He has been feeling this way for far too long and he doesn't see why we just can't move on. That he's sure I'll find somebody else who will be more like what I want. He says plenty of people get divorced so what is the big deal? Two sentences later, he sighs, and says, look, I'm going to my biz. partner's cabin for the weekend because I just want to be alone to think this all through so just hang in there. I think he just said that to shut me up and get me off the phone. I haven't been pestering him.

I have composed myself enough at least to get up and let the dog out and to stop crying. I am gravitating to the bed though.

My husband is convinced that I am not attracted to him and I don't really want to have sex with him and I'm just saying anything at this point to change his mind. He is brainwashed, and he sounds so confident that he knows everything he's talking about. He doesn't have it in him to try because he is lazy and just runs from things. He said he's a different person, that she "understands" him and makes him feel special. So why would he want to come back to me only other than he feels sorry for me and that this is safe and comforting, and because of our dog. He said he does love me, but it's more of comforting love, not a passionate love.

So he's in love with his dominatrix (which he says oh she's exclusive with him now and how she's so upset about me and so forth). This is a woman who he tried to convince me was his BF's new love interest. We spent New Year's with her, I invited her to his birthday party, and other misc. events all tricking me into thinking that she's some new friend of his BF's. I even went to her "divorce" party with my H and couldn't figure out why my H would not be affectionate toward me and kept trying to shove me off. So that's the worst of it, that she was right under my nose the whole time. She even tried to come on to me. The whole thing is disgusting.

I don't understand how he can act so confident about all of this and that I'm the one that just needs to get over it and move on? Perhaps I just need to file for divorce and get it over with. I love him, but it is all too much and I can't convince him of anything, only he can convince himself.

He also told me that, "you know, if my mom really knew the truth about all this, it would break her heart?" I so want to tell her and everyone else because otherwise he feels that he can just get away with this discretely. Perhaps it may be for the best in the long run, but not now.

You need to expose it .... NOW.

-rh-

I picked up Surviving the Affair and have been reading it tonight. I also exposed the story finally to his mom. I've never heard so many "WHAT??!!"'s in one phone conversation :-) And it didn't break her heart. I told her that he said that and she was shocked that he would care about breaking her heart. She said that was out of the ordinary for him.

His twin sister is next on my list. Considering she was duped as well into thinking that this OW was his BF's new love interest, I'm sure she would love to hear the details. That is if she didn't already know herself and is covering for him. Anything is possible. I don't know who I can trust anymore considering his BF covered for him all this time.

You need to be doing it cus YOU want to. Cus it's the right thing to do, and it's the way you want to live. If you are sincerely doing it b/c you want to, and you will make the changes whether or not he comes back, it will become apparent.

Even if he doesn't come back, you will emerge from this a better person and better prepared for your next relationship. I know you don't want to hear that right now, but eventually you'll take comfort in that. When you come to the point where you're making the changes for yourself, you will be on the road to personal recovery.


You shouldn't be keeping from telling them! You should be telling them! Tell them. (I see you've begun - that's great!)


Hang in there. The only thing you MUST do, absolutely MUST, is just breathe and get through the next hour. Then you'll deal with the next hour. And the next. And when you summon some strength, start on exposing. Like believer ssaid, the ADs should kick in soon, just hang in there.


DO delve. Expose.


That's entirely up to you. If you decide to say F it, you are still welcome here, come here and we'll help you do a dark Plan B to recover yourself, 'kay honey?


Good idea. Great that you're protecting yourself legally and physically. Good self-care.


Re. rebuilding a connection, that's of course if you want to recover the marriage. It's your call.

If you are considering that AT ALL, here's what I would do, it's just me, my opinion, what I'd do in a similar sitch, I'm sure others would choose to do different things:

As long as you're even halfway doing the Marriage Max stuff (sorry, I dunno what that is but it sounds like Plan A) I would go ahead and do a PROPER Plan A for at least a little while. Then you'll at least know you tried. It's also suggested, if you're trying to recover the M, to have one last good Plan A time together before going into Plan B. So I'd do the Plan A, that's just me, just for as long as I could do it reasonably, then I'd go to Plan B after one last good Plan-A encounter.

The Plan A is painful but you are already in a lot of pain, and IMHO you are sitting on the fence between Plan A and Plan B. You need to be in one or the other. Half of one and half of the other, or sometimes one and sometimes the other, defeats the purpose of both and maximizes the pain.

A good Plan A includes taking care of yourself. And then, going completely into Plan B with no waffling, is definitely to protect yourself. Read some other threads - there have been many cases where a BS is in pain and is afraid to go into Plan B, but when they do, they express such RELIEF.

You need to do one or the other. Don't try to do Plan B here and still trying to do the Marriage Max stuff. The Marriage Max stuff sounds like Plan A.


If you promised a friend to keep a secret, and that secret turned out to be that they were going to commit suicide, or kill someone else, would you keep that promise?

EXPOSE!


*hugs* I hear your pain. It does get better. A long long time ago my 1st H left me for a bartender. I felt about as bad as you describe, and I even tried some stuff I'm ashamed of. I've had days where even a shower was a major accomplishment. That was a long time ago and it feels like about a dozen lifetimes ago. Life is so much better now.

Please, just breathe, that's all you have to do RIGHT NOW. Is there a friend you could call, to sit with you and maybe take care of your dog a bit?

I'm so glad you are starting to expose. It's something, right? It's the first step.

You can do this. All you have to do is breathe, and when you have the strength just follow the plan outlined here, 'kay? Just stay with us, folks here have been where you are and have come out the other side, I promise.

Hub,

Now as part of exposure, your WH will be mad like heck at you. Your defense should be plead temporary insanity ... you can't take it anymore, it hurt, you are in AD and don't help, can't contact your tx ... . Never once admitting this action is b/c of his action and you want to break the A.

What are things that WH use as an excuse to have A ? ... listed and weed it out. There are thing that are true but there are thing are excuse. The trick is to find out the different. The things are true is your Plan A action plan. Addressing it asap.

Hang in there and vent in here.

-rh-

I just wanted to clarify something I said:


I don't mean that to disparage the Marriage Max stuff. What I meant was, I wouldn't mix the Marriage Max stuff you listed, with some of the stuff from MB's Plan B. Do either Plan A/Marriage Max, OR do Plan B. One or the other. No mix-and-match, no going back and forth. Except for one carefully thought-out move from Plan A to Plan B, if it becomes necessary.

How are you doing? *hugs*

I exposed the A to my H's business partner, his sister, my mom, my best friend, and one of his friends who does work for me. Everyone is disgusted with him.

His sister is especially livid. She's ready to start getting destructive she is so mad. The reason why she is so mad is because she is angry with her brother (my H) that he flaunted this woman in her face by telling her that she was his BF's potential love interest/friend, had this woman show up to hang out with us, took pictures together with us, she showed up at the birthday party for both of them (H and his sis are twins) and lied to her as well for as many times as she asked him if he was up to anything.

His sister thinks he is sick because of this. Having an affair is one thing, but getting this woman to hang out with us and trick us into believing that she is a friend of his BF's is some other type of demented thinking altogether. They totally got off on it together that none of us knew accept for his BF and his BF's girlfriend. And for his BF to cover for him? So that he could bring this woman and get to hang out with me and her? That is also sick.

So I've realized now that I'm done with my H. No matter what he does, I will never believe him or be able to trust him even the slightest bit again. My mom brought up a good point, she said "is this the man who you want to be the father of your children if this is how he thinks he should be conducting himself?" Having a secret affair is one thing; flaunting this woman in front of me and all of our friends and his sister is just sick. There is no way that I can bring myself to continue to look at my husband and respect him in any way only than to think he is mentally ill.

Start looking for Dv laywer and look for legal/financial advice. Just for advice for now. Wait a while until you are out of coaster and your love banks drains out. You have no kid. It is just between you and him. Use this experience and learn MB for your future R. I started over at 44 yr old, you could definitly start over.

-rh-

Yesterday and today are just bad. I suppose a few things could make it worse, but I am so in the dumps. I'm trying so hard to just get through the day. I do make an effort to wake up, take a shower, get dressed, fix myself, and be somewhat productive.

I am very fragile. I don't know why. I do not understand why I am grasping so hard to this relationship when it will never be the same again. I've seen so many people who have been cheated on over and over again.

I saw a therapist last week. She wrote down the name of a book that she wanted me to pick up. It's by Bryon Katie called "I Need Your Love - Is That True? : How to Stop Seeking Love, Approval, and Appreciation and Start Finding Them Instead." She also recommended that I join a DBT support group. When I googled it to see what that was I lost it. Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. This is a new therapist and after the first meeting she sniffed it right out. My dad was diagnosed with a Borderline Personality Disorder. Well apparently I now have it. The thing I am so upset about is that I was feeling so good about how I was doing and what I had done to improve myself and when I found this out it made me feel like I made no progress whatsoever. After being very depressed about that, I laid on the couch all day really unable to do anything other than sleep. I finally forced myself up, changed, did the dishes and went to my nephew's (on H's side since my family doesn't live around here) little league game. It actually cheered me up and made me feel better. My H's family has been supportive throughout all of this for me because they completely disapprove of his actions.

I spoke with my mother-in-law after the game and she said that she spoke to my H. She said that he had said he's pretty certain that he wants a divorce and that he wants to use mediation. Then she said something about him being with more women besides the nasty one he is with now. I busted out crying and left. I couldn't help myself. It was just too much. I don't honestly know how I made it home. I cried all the way home. When I got home I was still crying. At that point I just didn't know what to do with myself anymore. I was so upset there just aren't any words for what I was feeling. My sister-in-law came over, banging on my door. I let her in and she made me put my clothes back on and got me out of the house to get some dinner. I seriously don't know what I would have done if it weren't for her coming over.

So I apparently have a borderline personality disorder. Well no wonder my husband doesn't want me. It's all too much to process. Where to move to, what to do with all my stuff, my work, my dog won't eat... it's just all too much.

I just want to be happy.

I don't understand why I am grasping on to this relationship and think it's going to ever get better. They say once a cheater, always a cheater. I just don't see how that can improve unless you make someone live on an island. My H won't live like that, so there is no hope for us at this point and I just need to get over it in my head but it is really hard to do. I am so done with relationships - I never want to be with anyone again. I'd rather be lonely than hurt and wondering what somebody is up to. I don't see how I'd be able to trust anybody ever again.

My mom reminds me that our marriage was going downhill from the minute it started. What I say happened as that as soon as we got married we stopped trying because we figured that was it. We're married. Nothing to work on. It should just happen. And boy we're we wrong. I can't be kidding myself that this can work itself out - especially that it's with a dominatrix. My husband was so mad at me for telling people that portion of the story. He said to me the other day - see this is just pushing me further and further away from you.

I'm crazy apparently and I have a personality problem. I feel like a used rag. I just want to crawl in a hole and not come out until the fallout is over. I'd love anything to be a kid again. After 33 years of life, adulthood can really suck.

I'm losing it but somehow still hanging in. Maybe I have an ounce of rationality in that regard, I don't know.

UGH.

When I googled it, it also said this therapy is useful when treating mood disorders (like major depression). Did the therapist say that she felt you had a BPD? First, I don't know that a therapist could "sniff that out" in a brief meeting and without a personality measure being given to you. Second, if she did not say that directly, then ask her to clarify why she recommended DBT. Third, if that is exactly what she said or believes, then ask her to explain what that means in your case and what her treatment plan is. Finally, if you are not comfortable with that, then seek a second opinion.

Even if you have BPD, you are not crazy. There are treatments available that can help you manage it, the same way there are treatments that help diabetics manage their condition... or those with high blood pressure. There are lots of things things that go awry in the body that cannot be cured but can be managed.

There is nothing... NOTHING... that justifies what your husband has done. He should have come to you with his concerns before he got involved with someone else. Unfortunately, we don't always do what we should do. The affair is about him and his weaknesses, not you.

Her H should not have gotten involved with someone else while they were M'd - Period.

You are correct, MIM. That was my meaning... so thank you for clarifying my wording.

Hub,

I haven't posted to you before, but I saw that your therapist recommended Byron Katie's work as well as DBT. I have read a different book by Byron Katie (Loving What Is) and it was tremendously helpful for me in working through my own overwhelming mess a few years ago.

Also, I started working with a therapist last year trained in DBT and my work with her has made a monumental difference for me. Please don't worry that her recommendation of DBT means a specific diagnosis for you. My understanding is that it is useful in working with all sorts of people. My life has changed dramatically for the better, in ways I never thought possible, because of my work with that therapist. It sounds to me like you may have found a great therapist.

With best wishes for your healing,
KathCA

Thanks KathCA, Jane, and everyone else who has been so helpful here these last few months.

I am proceeding with divorce - currently shopping around for lawyers and financial planners. I would only consider reconciling with my husband if it was deemed that he was mentally ill. At this point it might be possible. His father (not biological) was schizophrenic, so you can only imagine what his childhood was like. The therapist we were seeing before said that since he is used to living with chaos, he thrives it, and when I became even-keeled, I became "boring". I feel that he is being manipulated since he's with a "dominatrix" - although he is trying to say now that he's been with multiple women, not just her. There's no way to make out the truth and the lies. He runs away from things to avoid dealing with him which is what he used to do when his dad became to much. He would run to his friends.

I am by no means justifying any of his behavior. But in this particular situation, I do believe he is mentally troubled - more than just a fog. I can't help him - he has to want to help himself. It's just sad to watch him for everything he's accomplished go down hill. He's lost his friends' respect. He's lost his trust with people. His family is disgusted with his behavior. It's all just sad to watch somebody who was doing so well to begin to unravel.

I've been doing quite a bit of thinking today about the concept of MB. I've been reading through other posts and comparing other experiences as they relate to mine. I wish there was more emphasis to help people decide when it's time to move on. For two years now I have been working to improve myself. I have made mistakes and done the best I can to overcome them. Once I found out about the affair and how the OW had been brought to both myself and his sister/my SIL, the pain/humiliation became unbearable. I exposed the affair, but H told me that doing that just pushed me further away. Then I hear that there wasn't just the dominatrix he fell in love with; that he had had other relations with OW.

It is very hard when you have been disrespected to continue with dignity. It is very hard when you have been hurt not to hurt back. And it is very hard when you are with a troubled soul, to think that there is any hope at surviving something as catastrophic as an affair.

Does having a home, a marriage, a business, and assets and not wanting to start from square one out-weigh the damage done by an affair and become the driving force to do so much work? At this point, focusing on love is hard, and the feelings once felt just aren't at the same level of intensity as they once were. Can these feelings ever be rekindled to the same level that they once were? I used to trust him. Now I don't know if I ever should have been at all. At what point is it still worth to keep giving while our own needs are not being met? What about our own self-worth to continue to be disrespected and put down when the H is staying and still seeing the OW? And what about the spouse's approach to dealing with problems and disrespectful judgments on his part? Is plan A/plan B just essentially allowing the spouse to "get it out of their system"?

I'm conflicted by the concept of MB and the fine line of becoming a door mat essentially. For two years I worked to rebuild myself and treat my husband with respect the best I know how. I treated him well and took care of him, and in the meantime, he got the most important EN met by OW. He would put me down to justify his behavior. He blames me/others for his hurtful actions instead of being personally accountable. I don't think that is a disrespectful judgment when words that come from him do not center around responsibility or accountability for himself and his actions. In ten years together, there have been perhaps a dozen apologies (actual I'm sorry) from him for his disrespectful judgments and selfish demands at me. I know he cares about me though - it shows in other ways.

I am having a really hard time trying to assess the value of my relationship with him at this point to determine if it is worth putting anymore effort forth to repair. At what point do you know it's really time to let go and move on or if you should stick it out (for better and for worse)?

Go back and re-read about Plan B. You probably missed some things because it was too early and you were still hurting.

Plan B will protect any love that you have left for your WH. It's not designed to "give him what he wants", it's more of a protection for you.

There are some awesome people on the General Questions board doing Plan B right now. Read up on their posts and get some insight.

My DD is BPD and starting to see a DBT therapist. It is NOT who you are, it just describes some of your behaviors. There is nothing wrong with going in that direction and getting help for yourself. It will only make you stronger and you deserve that.

Time to take care of YOU!

This has been a hard weekend. I feel that I am at the beginning stages of Plan B. I have not wrote the letter yet. It was such a nice weekend here, and I just felt lonely on and off. I did things with his sister and our nephews, but I just miss my husband.

I bought a VERY good book over the weekend called "After the Affair". I think this is the best book I've read so far. I bought the eBook as well and am having it sent to my H for him to read. I don't know if he will or not, but I figured since it was an eBook, he might try it.

This book goes right down the line starting with the betrayed, then to the cheater, then evaluating the situation by asking you to look back on childhood experiences and see what situations are still being played out in the marriage.

For me, my parents were never loving toward me. My H was loving toward me for long periods of time, yet I would freeze up. My wedding was dreadful because there was so much emotion being exposed. I wished I wasn't the one at the center with all eyes on me waiting for me to break down or whatever. So I've been really uptight. I also used to get picked on when I was little and throughout my life. All I wanted was to make friends, but I couldn't understand why I would be picked on. My dad was very domineering and verbally abusive toward everyone in our house.

Fast forward to today. I married someone who was verbally and emotionally abused by his dad who was schizophrenic (not biological dad). He went through a lot of stuff as a child and saw so much abnormal behavior. His mom was at least loving to him and praising. Anytime something bad went down at the house, he ran away to his friend's houses. So I married someone was trying to love me, yet I pushed him away. This refusal of love to him ignited those feelings of his dad not loving him as well as mental issues as I dealt with panic attacks, anxiety, and OCD for a while. It's under control now, but my H is probably skeptical that I will have some outburst and resort back - just like his dad would have the tendency to do if he got off his meds.

I haven't figured out yet for sure what this means to me in a bigger sense. Another part of the book talks about the characteristics of the spouse that flip-flop between positive and negative. For instance, I would say that my H would admire me for my professional drive and organization since he is more laid back and not as organized. But, when things don't feel positive for him, these traits spin to negative whereby professional drive and organization turn suddenly into compulsive worrying and working too much.

That's as far as I've got with the book. It does conflict with staying apart from the spouse, but perhaps the book is written with the intention of the couple reading it together although it doesn't sound that way. It's really written with the viewpoint of each side and really hits the exact feelings of what I am feeling like currently and how to deal with these feelings.

I'm just feeling a little down and out regardless. I HAVE to schedule an appointment for an STD check. I don't think I have anything but I want to be sure. I haven't been sexually active with my husband since November/December-ish. Everything has just been such a bombshell for me that I can only process so much at once with all of this.

My plan for this week though is to get the eBook to him and write him a Plan B letter. And FINALLY get some work done.

Dr. Harley doesn't advocate staying with a spouse when there has been an affair. The decision to leave the marriage is an individual choice and one that he understands and feels is appropriate if the betrayed spouse makes that choice. What he found in his practice, however, was that more often spouses wanted to recover the marriage after an affair. Marriage building is his way of helping couples accomplish that and build a stronger marriage than the one that existed prior to the affair.

The marriage cannot be recovered while the affair is still ongoing, and that is what plans A & B address.

So after giving this more thought, I have realized some things about the issues within my M that could have contributed to the demise of it.

I feel that I want to save the marriage. The book "After the Affair" has really helped me look at the issues of our M and what he/I thought were each other being intentionally malicious when we are just continuing to act out issues from our childhood. To recap quickly here is what I've done so far:
Week 1:
1. Confronted WS upon hearing about and snooping to expose affair.
2. H stayed at home for two days after. Told me he loved me, but that everything is too far gone at this point to work. Says I treated him like a coworker rather than a H. Says at this point, he's changed, not the same person, feels terrible for what he's done, and would only get back with me because he feels bad for me.
3. H leaves, tells me he is going to work at biz partner's home. Hasn't come back since. This was on June 10.
4. I call H, find out he's staying with OW. Angry, I no longer can keep my promise of not telling anyone about this as he had asked me to. I proceed to expose the A to his mom, grandma, sister. Then to his biz. partner, former co-workers, and friends.
5. I change the locks and start seeking legal advice.

Week 2:
6. Few days later, H sends me an IM asking if I'm still furious. I tell him that he has been exposed to his family. He is furious. I'm glad I changed the locks should he decide to act crazy (not that he has before). I also change the bank account numbers and cancel his business credit card. I feel that our private information has been compromised since we have been victims of identity theft previously. He keeps insisting OW will not be malicious.
7. H says he can no longer show his face at family functions, how dare I expose the details (he was with a dominatrix), he might as well just start over somewhere new with a new family and friends.
8. I start seeing a new therapist and slowly begin trying to get through.
9. H talks to his mom and tells her that he has been with more than 1 woman and that he's pretty certain that he wants a D. He does not tell me this directly. We do not speak again by phone or email. She told him that he really better take some time to make sure that this is really what he wants. She also tells him that he's not banished from the family, just that nobody is approving of what he has done.
10. H talks to his mom again. Upon hearing of a family BBQ that I got invited to, he wants to know why he didn't get invited as well. Not sure how MIL answered that.

Week 3:
11. I miss my H over the weekend. Frustrated, I set up an OK Cupid account just to see what happens. I'm not planning on doing anything or meeting anyone and I mention the situation specifically in my profile. I later mention this account to my H which he thinks is justifiable.
12. I pick up the book "After the Affair". This book has been so helpful in defining the situation. I purchase the ebook version and send it to my H. He attempts to read it but had problems with file.
12. I go for STD screen and find out I also have moluscum contageosum. I tell my H. He feels terrible, but it's the best of the group to have as it goes away on it's own.
13. Today: I speak again with my H to tell him that he needs to start paying the mortgage again (we take turns and he hasn't paid in 6 months). I resent the ebook and he said he will look at it. He has not downloaded it as of yet. I mentioned that I have been out with his BF and his GF and that his BF and I discussed at great length the situation. I told him I know about how he also was "cheating" on his OW with another OW. OW does not know of the OW either. I could write to the OW and tell her there was another OW, but I think it will just get him angry with me again. I told him how his BF said that it is a lie that he wanted the OW to come to events. H's tone sounds remorseful. I tell him that I'm not sure what to think about all of this, but I believe there is a foundation with us and that it is possible to recover from this. I continue to hear same answers "I feel terrible about this", "I don't see how we can recover from this", "If I come back to you it will just be because I feel sorry for you". I tell him to look at the ebook as it addresses these statements.

So, what do I do next? Plan A or Plan B? He's not in the house. I don't know when he plans to return. As far as I know, he is still with the OW, but has informed his BF, mom, and myself that he doesn't see the OW as "a long term thing."

I feel like I've been in Plan A prior to knowing about the affair and my H has commented on noticing improvements. So I'm thinking Plan B? Should I wait a few days and write the Plan B letter?

Hey there,
I have been reading your posts and my heart breaks for you. I am going thru the same exact thing except i have been married for 14yrs and two kids.
if you want to chat, let me know. i would love to try to help you get through it.