Not sure if this has been answered previously, but I noticed that you said your WW's mother is not Christian.

So when and how did your WW come to Christianity? Was it through your relationship with her, stemming from your own Christian background?

Can you see, AB, that I am trying to figure out why you (or anyone) would EVER put up with the drama, the lies, the manipulations, the abuse, the bad treatment, the moods, that this toxic woman offers you and the kids?

Why????????, What motivation do you have, to put up with it all????

I am really trying to figure it out. Since you are (in your mind and in your actions) rushing into taking her back as if nothing happened. With no protections in place.


***There is some reason you are rushing this process and I am trying to figure out if it is financial, or you are dysfunctional, or what.***

The kids dont want her back, are their feelings worth nothing to you??? They know she is extremely toxic. And a huge millstone to the family. They were just starting to get used to having a normal life apart from her drama and stress. Which is what they deserve. You take that "crazy" back in to the home and the household upheaves constantly.

I am inclined to believe MyRev on this one, AW, and I am the queen B of miracles.

But unlike your ww, I HAD fidelity and a M from the get go. Your ww has been cheating on and off from the get-go in yours.

There is a HUGE difference between someone who begins with goodness, falls from grace, then fights tooth and nail towards redemption; and a person that only displays goodness when it suits FROM THE START.

Like I said, your wife needs lots of therapy.

I'm not saying to D RIGHT NOW.

I'm saying to B and WATCH. The only way to be certain of your ww's intentions is going to take time. In that, utilize the TIME to make yourself and your home YOURS.

She will either woman/mother up or she won't.

But you will have gained the peace of living w/out her drama, in which time you and your children will be on the path of healing.

Allright, I'll be COMPLETELY honest. Sure, a big part of me does still want her back at any cost. However, (with your help) I do realize that this is not in ANY of our best interest! There WILL BE boundaries IF R occurs.

As to the financial aspect. I would say our income was divided about 60-40, with 60% coming from me. However, remember that we just built a 3500 sq.ft. home 3 1/2 years ago...so, my mortgage alone is pretty prohibitive. And, YES, I have also been MR. MOM too. I already explained that I did most of the parenting and household responsibilities.

Please explain how you think, at any point, my kids have started to get used to life without her. SHE hasn't let them! And, when I have tried to support their decision to avoid/ignore her, I have been blasted! Simply, the kids do want MOM back, but they don't want WW. At this point, it's just a matter of which she chooses to be!

I don't think that. Not at all.

I really think you need to Plan B and get supervised visitations set up LEGALLY so your kids will be SAFE from her toxic mechanations.

That's the doormat in you speaking.

God's forgiveness demands that she ask for yours.

You're going to have to set the bar VERY high.

She couldn't even reach the small one from last night b/c she didn't like the way you responded to her.

ab, this is NOT a repentant woman. Not by a long shot.

Oh my....I don't think that Plan B has had the desired (and intended) effect on your PERSONAL recovery.


This could be a major PROBLEM for you.


jmho
committed

Let her get her butt into IC, establishes NC, and go through w/drawals on her own.

Let her quit her job, and find one that isn't as emotionally taxing and doesn't require her to travel.

Let her apologize to your kids for the he!! she put them through and agree to go for parenting lessons, and counseling w/ the kids.

Then after all of that, which should take place over months, then you can consider talking to her about R w/ you.

Don't rush this, ab.

No matter how much you want to.

If you take her back now, you'll never get her to do the work that she needs to.

Set the bar VERY high.

Absolutely correct! She's blame-shifting; that's not repentance.

Also, remember that her pattern has been to try to portray you as the bad guy while at the same time manipulating people around her. She sent texts to you that seem designed to get a certain response. When she didn't get that response, she acted angry, and she distorted the truth to her mom and step-dad to make her look long-suffering and you the bad guy.

This is the pattern.

True repentance can lead to true recovery. But I fear this is just more manipulations, and is going to hurt your kids even more. And if you respond by succumbing to manipulations, you reinforce that behavior and delay any true repentance/recovery.

I'm glad you didn't show an emotional reaction to her text about someone being killed, quitting her job, and "I'm dead now." Stay firm.

Yes, AW3. Her attitude and response shows that she is as wayward as ever in her response. She gets mad at you for asking questions about her return?

She's likely also going to tell you to "just get over it" if she does return.

Don't tolerate this. R can't happen until she faces the fact that she did something horrible to you and is truly sorry for what she did and she never utters the words, "get over it."

I don't know what details you left for her to follow if she were to return. NC could be in place, but I'm sure you had other criteria.

I think the best example of a BH telling a WW the conditions she must own up to is Runningboy. THAT is how you tell a WW what conditions must be met for forgiveness to even have a chance.

Slight T/J.

Speaking of Runningboy, is he still around? Does anyone know if he is ok?

Very good post.

Abandoned, has your WW been a huge drama queen type during your entire marriage, or does this seem to be a new development?

Yes. Ditto. Everything.

(It feels wonderful to agree with everyone again, I feel less crazy!)

One thing to add, as motivation to set the bar very high... remember the adoption folks. They will not look favorably if WW returns and drama and manipulations ensue.

Ok, one more thing, a warning: if she's as good at manipulating as I think she is, she could even fool her IC. Just watch for that. Don't be too quick to believe.

If you aren't in IC yet, you need to be, with a licensed therapist who can advise you on how to deal with someone like your WW. An IC can give you a reality check so you are less susceptible to manipulations. And can help you protect your kids, and get them into the best counseling for them.

Absolutely!

ab, YOU aren't ready for her to come back yet.

As, Committed has wisely pointed out.

You need to get farther in your personal recovery.

To a point where this is no longer true for you...

I Do agree, MM, right now, she is obviously NOT repentent. If/when she is, things might be different.

For now...I'm STILL in Plan B!

So AB, what are your SPECIFIC requirements for her to come home?

In PBL: NC w/ OM
Repentence with God (this one should take place 1st)
M Counseling

Added Since: Full apology to children for actions

These are good, what about IC?

How about a post-nup in case she ever pulled this crap again?

Did you actually GIVE her the PBL?

Does this include a change of job for her?


This could take quite a while..if ever.

How will you know she has done this?

How will it look differently from the other times she said she did?



No IC? No apology to you? No family counseling?