I am writing this mainly to vent because I am full of emotion right now and rather than screw up even more pouring my guts to a bunch of strangers seems like a safer option.

My WW is trying hard to make things work. She calls me through out the day to tell me she loves me and she is glad she chose me and she is glad I chose to take her back. She has been slowly but steadily reading HNHN, LB is next to the bed for when she finishes the first book. We see a counselor 2 times a month and recently when I told her I wasn't comfortable with the counselor she let me pick one for us to try. We start seeing him weekly next week because he is covered by my insurance and we can afford it. She still exhibits some wayward behavior but I think it is mostly her guilt for all that has happened rather than her actually still being wayward. We have all the issues you might expect for a couple only 2 months into recovery but I can see her making an effort.

Here is my problem. While we were separated for 3 months I learned a lot about taking care of myself and forgiving myself for things. I was eating healthy, smoking less, working out, and generally doing well considering. Now that we have moved back in together I find myself constantly scarred that she is going to leave me. So I obsess about meeting her EN's to the point where I am screwing myself up. We have one tiny little argument and my whole world flips upside down. I feel completely out of control. With the ball dropped I say things I don't mean and I do things I shouldn't do. I smoke more now than I ever have. I distance myself from my W. I try to talk to her about what I am feeling and I somehow manage to say things that hurt her feelings. She says I make her feel guilty. Then she shuts off. No more affection, no SF, no conversation. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. I feel like I am driving a wedge between us.

So now she is not meeting my EN's yet I feel like the only way to get her to go back to meeting them is to ignore my own needs, meet hers 100% and hope she comes back around. This is starting to destroy me. We have been doing this almost every other day for the last 2 weeks. I get upset, I know that I can't turn to her for support. I know how she will react but I turn to her anyway. This pushes her away. I get a hold of myself and go back to working on her EN's for a few days, she starts to act like she is going to meet mine and then in my efforts to ignore my own needs I get upset again and the cycle continues.

Give me some inspiration, some guidance. The more this goes on the more worried I am that she is going to leave me and the downward spiral gets worse and worse.

Can you call the Harleys? They can help you focus on the future and get a real, working plan for recovery.

I am sorry you are going through this, but it is pretty normal after what you have been through. My DH and I went through quite a LONG period of this same stuff before I pulled my head out of my [censored]! And not a minute too soon! We couldn't afford to call them or go to a MC, so I poured myself into this site, its teachings and learned all I could...and while I was doing that, I started posting my wayward crap on here and got my [censored] handed to me! LOL! It helped more than I can even tell you!

Can you have your wife start posting?

Yes, I recommend your wife start posting but let her know that she is going to receive a share of 2x4s but that there are many women on here who post and help WWes understand what they've done and how to help things get better.

You have every right to be fearful and upset. You've been betrayed in a terrible way.

However, you need to find a way to walk away when you start feeling that level of anger or like you will LB and calm yourself.

Good idea for your wife to be here

Resonance,

I would love to call the Harley's. My wife has actually talked about calling them but unfortunately, $175 is a bit more than we can afford right now. She knows I spend a lot of time here on MB and she has spent a little while here reading the articles. I don't think she has tried the forums. I kind of doubt that she will post here but I will ask her. I may regret it but I'll ask.

pom,

I don't understand where things went wrong. We spent the first month back together and it was like a steady stream of love and understanding, kindness and caring. Then everything went downhill. Old habits reappear. It's hard to break them again and stay on track. Thanks for your reply.

L2W,

Old habits die hard. You can't expect to eat a whale in a day. It's going to be a long process.

I never went through recovery, but I can imagine there is a bit of a honeymoon period that kicks in when the wayward recommits to the marriage. The BS is estatic to have the WS back and temporarily forgets the hurt and enjoys the fact that the WS has returned home.

But time has a way of wearing things down and the elation is then replaced with introspection and rememberance of the betrayal and hurt that was inflicted on the BS.

This is all speculation on my part. I've never been through recovery. But I do remember trying to put on a happy face while the WW told me she'd give us a chance. It was hard not to have the images and triggers and it was very hard to hide how I felt inside. I can imagine that my anger and resentment would have grown if the WW stayed and continued to fence sit and stay in contact with the men she cheated on me with and if she never showed remorse for her actions.

She never has to this day, but I don't expect she ever will.

But she's my ex and we're divorced and she can run around with as many men as she wishes now. You're in a different boat.

You're trying to recover your M and are dealing with a WW who wants to become a FWW. She still has some rationalization going on, which causes you to have triggers.

The only way she can help you truly heal is to own up to all she did with no "buts" or rationalizations. I'm sorry repeated a million times and with no condition and an understanding heart will help you.

You have the challenge or giving her a chance and letting your guard down again to be open to being hurt again. But you must eventually let go of what she did in order to move forward because holding it over her head for life will not create a healthy marriage.

So the challenge is on both ends. She needs to ask for forgiveness and you must be willing to forgive.

It's work. The whale won't be eaten overnight and War and Peace won't be read in one day.

LTW, I know exactly how you feel. 7 months into recovery and I still often feel that way. It can get better. My W is much better about meeting my needs and helping with my anxiety today than earlier in recovery. Despite her reassurances, however, I find that I need to heal myself; her encouragement is only a short-term fix and can become a crutch.

#1 - Try to focus on the positives:

• She is in the house with you
• She sends you ILY text messages throughout the day
• She is reading Harley's books
• She has guilt about what she did
• She is going to counseling with you

#2 - Try to focus more on you. You need to continue your Plan A. Try and spend that nervous energy on a hobby, exercise, or something more productive. Try not to appear desperate.

#3 - Be pleasant to be around. Do things together. I find I am less anxious when we spend quality time with one another. Schedule date nights, rent a movie and cuddle, etc. 15 hours per week…

Hang tough - things can and will get better.

- Sh0cked

Yes, very, very hard!! I had a tough time staying in my humble, understanding, do-whatever-it-takes-for-as-long-as-it-takes mode. I was always pretty aggressive, confident, outtgoing and just a bit mouthy (LOL)! I know...SHOCKER...hehehe!

But, there were people that helped me along the way, and one time I even had a dream that was so real it took me a couple of days to shake (about W2S leaving me for another woman). There are things you can do that help, though. One of the biggest is to have your own support system so that you do not ALWAYS have to take every little thing to your wife. Not saying that you SHOULDN'T talk to your wife...just saying that there comes a time when talking about it with her all the time just hurts both of you, although YOU still NEED to talk about it, it just doesn't behoove the intimate, loving relationship you are trying to re-build, yanno?? So, to have friends of the marriage who can help you through these difficult times means a lot. That way, you still get to vent or rage when you need to...

I want to clarify this a little further...my above paragraph addresses the state of the M AFTER ALL DETAILS of the A have been revealed, ALL questions of the BS are answered to his/her satisfaction, and marital recovery has begun (by BOTH parties). Not before...and I am saying this KNOWING from others who have gone straight from ending the A/exposure/etc to counseling with Steve or Jennifer. They counsel that re-hashing is FAR from productive once recovery has begun.

I wish you had the cash, but we didn't, either and so I hear ya! The Harleys have put SOOOO much info here on this site for us, plus most of the people here on the MB forum are fantastic, so you CAN get there for "free."

Hang in there!!

PS...introvert...ask away, and if you do not feel like putting it on the open forum, email W2S and I at stillstaying@gmail.com.

Thank you

Resonance,

Thank you for your replies, your input is always welcome. I feel pretty confident that all of the details of the A are pretty well out in the open. Any details that have not been spoken I think would do more harm than good. I know what happened and to be honest, I don't really want to talk about it anymore. I know what her mindset was at the time and I know how she feels about it now. I may feel differently down the road. I guess I didn't realize just how insecure I was going to be as a result of the A and the events that led up to it.

You are still so early in this, LTW...time will help a lot. Time, and care and committment on both your parts to restore your love and trust to a greater height than it ever was before.

We still struggle. W2S has had an extremely difficult time...both because he has OCD and cannot make the thoughts leave his mind, AND because we had always had a pretty darn good M before all this happened. So the WHY factor is enormous for him! Some BSs can step back and say "Oh yeah-neither one of us were happy," or "I/we traveled (apart) all the time" (a recipe for disaster in ANY M) or even "I took our M for granted," etc. Those BSs may find it somewhat "easier" to see WHY this would happen (and that given the right set of circumstances the BS may have been the one who ended up cheating because of how vulnerable the M had become). But, then there are those M that had some flaws, (obviously-noone is perfect!) but was otherwise pretty good...so WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!!!!!

Be patient with yourself. Read the articles on this site as much as possible so that you can understand the Harley/MB teachings. And give your self some time to heal!

How can I get my wife to realize that I am not trying to tell her she is doing something wrong? I am just trying to rebuild my own security and my own trust and comfort. It seems like the majority of our fights start with me looking for her to tell me it's alright or that things are getting back to how they were before (the good things at least). It is never my intention to make her feel guilty or bad about what she is doing but she sees it that way and gets mad at me. Then she twists my words around and acts like I am launching some kind of attack on her. Sometimes it just feels hopeless. I NEED her to comfort me at least some of the time. I can't do it all on my own. I'm not bringing up the A or throwing her past mistakes in her face at all so I don't understand why she has such a hard time just talking to me about my insecurities. I am just trying to get to a safe place.

LTW,
You are trying to achieve something overnight, that often times takes years to accomplish. You are not yet in a postiion to trust your W and feel safety. You are too close to your DDay for this to happen yet.

Trust is the hardest thing to get back after DDay. It literally takes years, and even then, will most likely never achieve the level it was at prior to DDay. Actually, that is not such a bad thing, as even Dr H says you should never blindly trust your spouse, it is a mistake.

The lack of trust is what's making you feel unsafe. As long as you feel this way, there is a great fear of becoming vunerable again. The resistance to being vunerable, is am impedence to real love and itimacy in a M. I also suspect you W is fearful that you will truly be able to get over this. That was my w's biggest fear.

I had a C who declared that trust has a formular:
T=CB/T translated to mean Trust= Consistent Behavior over Time.

Don't rule out the Time factor in the equasion!


This is true, it is a form of just compensation that your W owes you as a result of the tremendous pain she has put you through. She needs to come to understand that and not react angrily. Most WW's want it to all go away and never be mentioned again. This, however, will not serve either of you very well.

All blessings,
Jerry

Very nice post, Jerry!


A couple thoughts on this...

I felt the same way about W2S when I was still "foggy," for many months after the A had ended and NC was in place. I even have felt that way a few times since I came here and began to de-fog...and W2S said almost the exact things you have stated above.

Part of it was the sheer difficulty in accepting what I had done. Sometimes the WORDS coming from him about what happened and how he felt seemed even WORSE to me that what I had actually done...does that make sense? It is a HARD HARD HARD mirror to look into when it is something you said you would NEVER do.

So, first of all, she is embarrassed, ashamed, and disgusted by her actions...which is a GOOD sign. Also, you are very early in recovery and I am POSITIVE there is still major fog involved, as well as withdrawl from the OM. You are still the "guy she is settling for because it is the RIGHT thing to do" and blah blah blah. I don't say that to HURT you, I am just trying to make you see that her attitude is not about you, it is about her! Her warped sense of reality, her selfish actions, and her inability to truly accept what she has done and comfort you, because to do THAT would mean that she is admitting what she has done is horribly painful and sickening.

The other (MUCH, MUCH SMALLER) part of the equation is your approach. Until she is past her selfishness, you are actually wasting your time trying to "make her see" or asking for her comfort and help. Waywards are such selfish creatures, and it takes a while for that to go away. SO, for now- change you approach.

Your best plan is to do a 180. Dispell her "I'm too cool for you" bullchit, and begin to heal yourself. Women like STRONG, mysterious men, and so just sort of turning off the emotions around her and backing off from the R&A talks is going to bring her around faster than ANYTHING else will. Some may say "She owes you this much" and "why should you turn to others, she should be kissing your feet for giving her another chance" etc. AND I AGREE IN PRINCIPLE...but in REALITY, sometimes we have to contend with human nature. Human nature states the noone likes to be around a crying, needy, devastated person. It is uncomfortable--especially for the person who CAUSED the pain.

Again-not saying this to hurt you--you have every reason in the world the FEEL this way...and *I* am not saying you are weak or needy--I am saying that this is HER warped perception of you right now. So, CHANGE HER PERCEPTION!! KWIM?

WE are here for you right now...are there any people IRL that can be your support system as well? Let her WONDER about you and what you are thinking for a while...

Resonance,

Everything you said makes perfect sense. It's things I already know but it still helps to hear or at least read. Helps to keep me on track.

I don't really have much of a support group as there is only 1 friend that I have that knows the extent of what happened. I know her mother knows but that doesn't help me much as her mother recommended that she save me the pain of knowing the truth by just not telling me. I'm glad she doesn't listen to her mother. Her friends know but I happen to know from using my super powerful computer skills that her friends were very supportive of her leaving me which makes no sense to me as I spoiled her and was always nothing but a perfect gentlemen around her friends.

I guess in a way, I failed plan A because the PA was already over by the time I found out about it. NC was in place already. I have to assume she does in fact have withdrawal as it was an EA from the time I moved out up until the PA happened. I really don't think she ever meant it to be anything more than a EA (not that that makes it any better). I don't really want to tell my family or the rest of my friends about the PA part. I maybe should have done that when she first told me but she begged me not to tell anyone as she was embarrassed.

Anyway, I have been pretty much doing just that. Not showing her my pain and avoiding confrontation. It sucks about as much as anything ever has. I still don't trust anyone and it feels like I never will. I guess I'll end it here before I get off topic.

Thanks.

LTW,

No advice, just empathy. Loads of it.

I'm right there with you, man. No-one to talk to, trying not to share my pain with her so SHE doesn't get discouraged.

By FAR the worst pain, anger, frustration and desperation I've ever felt.

Hang in there...

TTH

I dont mean to hijack the thread, I just saw this and its been on my mind. If I need to make my own thread, I will do so. Anyway, I think my WW is extremely concerned about people finding out what she did. She has admitted it is part of why she is choosing me, and has said she is torn between her emotions (OM) and her rationality (me). So I guess the question for me is, should rationality alone be sufficient right now for me to keep goin with her? I hate the idea of her staying with me primarily because its "the right thing to do" or because it will spare her embarrassment. I mean, I feel like if she doesnt like me then it is silly to keep going for those reasons. She still has a very difficult time with any physical stuff with me, because the emotions arent there. In fact, she told me that what physical interaction we have had has been the hardest thing she has done so far to contribute to recovering. Which makes me not even want it.

So, does one just wait it out and hope that changes with time? How long do I wait, six months, a year?

We had problems in this area well before her A began, so I guess I am worried that the A happened because she doesnt love me romantically, and I am concerned whether she ever can at this point. And even if I love her with all my heart, I think its pointless to keep going if it is one-sided. We dont have kids, but we both want to, and I am worried about going down that road with someone who doesnt really want me.

Let's see - M'd 3 years, vows broken already, no children involved, intimacy issues even before her A happened and you believe that your W does not love you.

I think the answer to your question is pretty clear.