Ok, I'm new in posting but have been in the background reading for almost 2 months now. It all started a little over 2 months ago when I got the I love you but not in love with you line. So ok I pulled out the LB and HNHN books and we got things started. Then a couple weeks after that I started becoming suspicious of an A. So I started watching and looking. Before I had definitive proof I confronted my WH twice and he lied both times. Then once I had the proof and confronted him I learned he's been unhappy and hasn't been "in love" for the past 7 yrs. We've been married for 14 together for 20. He met her last fall and only about 3 - 4 months ago did things really start. From what I can tell it is truely an EA. So to fast forward a bit he agreed to go to counseling (has been there 3 times now). I went back to counseling (been there before for depression). We have not yet gone together. We talked about and read the book after the affair and how the OW had to go. He agreed not to call her any more. Well of course I knew it wouldn't be that easy and there was no way the OW would just give up.

The weekend after the unvaling of the EA I noticed he was acting very strange and knew he had bought another cell phone back in April. So I confronted him with that because I was pretty sure that is what he was doing...talking w/her on other phone. I was right he said it was so she could text him and let him know how she was doing. He was not communicating back. I said ok fine even if that is true you are still allowing the lines of communication open and that will not work. So he literaly smashes the phone. Ok, but I know she can still contact him other ways. Like his work cell phone which is how I got my proof. I knew the code to his vm and got into it.

So of course every weekend since there seems to be some blow up in regards to the OW. The latest was this past friday because I decided once again to checkup and sure enough there was a message from her saying sorry we got disconnected call me back. Oh and she called him honey. So of course I brought this up by telling him I knew he was still talking with her. He finally did say I did talk to her today. She called and the number came up unknown and when he answered it was her. That's all he said. So I'm thinking the conversation did not contain sorry I can't talk to you and hang-up or he wouldn't of gotten the Hi honey we got disconnected message. I confronted him about her calling him honey and sweatheart he denied it. I specifically asked she never did this in a vm and he said know she didn't leave vm's on his cell only called his work number. I couldn't believe he was lying again!!! At that point however he didn't know about the hi honey message. He figured that one out Saturday and now put the pieces of the puzzle together how I got all my info. To that point he didn't have a clue and never asked so I didn't share.

What I've learned from this is he still to this day will not be honest with me even when I know he's lying and tell him point blank he is and how I know.

I'm trying really hard to be patient, understanding, not be the source of his unhappiness but I really can't continue down this road of dishonesty and the continuation of the EA. We are heading into our 4th week since the EA came out. He's tired of going in circles (so am I) but he doesn't seem to get until she's gone we will continue the same circle over and over. I told him I can't do this while she's around and he told me he can't do anything to give me what I need (EA's) until he gets his feelings back for me. We've talked about it will take time who knows how long since this has happened over several years. But he now seems convinced that it's been to long and he's been hurt to long for anything to come back.

He has really seemed to put forth geniun effort on working on things. We got another book 7 rules to making marriage work and he openly read and has participated in the exercises.

He's ready to head out the door but even though I've about had it with the dishonesty I can't let him go. However, I'm almost to that point.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks to all who will respond with words of wisdom.

-----------------------------
BS - Me (38)
WS (40)
No kids

Hi lookn4ans,

I'm sorry you find yourself here but you are in the right place and welcome to MB!

WS's ALWAYS rewrite marital history. With mine it was first 2 years, then 5, then made it all the way to: "I only married her because I was settling." I didn't hear this from him, I had a keylogger on his pc.

And like yours, mine would look me spank in the eyes and lie his *ss off. When I could even get him to talk, that is.

Don't expect any truth from him because he is a typical wayward. (I see that you have figured out the non-truth part, though. It's not hard!)

It is VERY hard to reconcile these former loving spouses with the monsters that they become.

You should keep reading here, read the material on the site. You need to expose the affair, too. Is OW married? Expose to her husband. It helps to have evidence to show the OS's, though. Sometimes they live in a fog of their own, knowing that something is going on but in a fog of denial. I'll grab a copy of the "Carrot & Stick of Plan A" and post it here for you.

Take care,

Charlotte

Here it is from the very first reply on my thread from MicheleG:

This is a journey now and here's the beginning.

Your WH:
Is having an A (either EA or PA or both)
He will lie
He will wonder how much you know
He will want to cake eat as long as possible
He is having needs met by both of you
As long as he is allowed to continue, he will

This is your part:
Time to expose the A to OWH again and any family member or friend that may have influence over him

Read this:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


Exposure is your strongest weapon against the A. Use it, and use it wisely. Do not tell him that you are going to do it, just do it. Expect more anger. Your M can survive his anger, but it cannot survive if he remains a WS.

Start a good plan A. If you can call the Harleys for advice. Read Surviving an Affair. You will learn the dynamics of affairs. They are all pretty much the same. The WS use the same script.

Your WH will try to rewrite history and put you in a bad light. He is trying to justify his actions to himself. He is probably addicted to the feelings of the A, not the OW. She could be anyone.

He has weaknesses that he did not protect. It is a slippery slope.

Keep coming here. Read, read, read.

Thanks Charlotte,

I know he wants his cake and eat it to. I've even told him that and told him it can't happen. I do believe it's not specifically her but the needs she's feeling. I've tried talking to him about this and trying to figure out what she is meeting that I'm not. We did the HNHN and listed the top 5 his was admiration. He also combined respect in that. After everything I've done over the past 4 weeks he did say he now believes I respect him. I honestly don't know what I did to make him feel I don't admire him or respect him. He's always been the center of my world that could do no wrong. Guess I was wrong on that one.

I was doing really well with the carrot part of the plan until last Friday when I knew for sure he talked with her again. Then honestly I totally lost it. I know that was the wrong thing but the fact he was leaving on Sat for 4 days to visit his parents didn't help matters. I couldn't set on it that long. But hind sight is 20/20 right...probably would have been better doing that then wondering where things will go when he gets home late Tuesday night. Up to this point I've offered so much forgivness and understanding he is even surprised. He told his shrink he couldn't beleive how well I was dealing with things. Me neither to be honest.

WH has told me she is married and has kids. He said there was some type of abuse in the relationship I don't know what kind. I know her name but that's it. I have not been able to get a number, address, nothing. I've tried. He did have a lock code on his cell phone but as soon as I uncovered the affair he removed the code but then he started deleting any entries other then work or myself calling and any outgoing calls not to me or work #'s. Even if I did know how to contact her or her spouse; I'm affraid to because of the children. I grew up in a physicial and mental abusive house so I don't want to be a source of that occuring in anyone's life even it is my WH OW.

Oh and over the past week it has gone from 7 years to 10 and he can't remember any of our good times only the bad.

I'm ready to move to plan B at this point. I'm also affraid he is ready to leave came close last Friday. I'm affraid if he leaves that will be it since she is meeting needs I can't he'll continue to go to her. But I also know that at some level I have to be meeting some of them. This sucks!

Thanks for your reply. It means so much!

Have you been able to verify that he is there? WS's think NOTHING of running away for a trip with their OP's. Mine tried. I've read here of others, too.


Yep, yep! Expect other passwords to be changed, too. Do you guys use the same pc? You need to get a keylogger and install it for collecting evidence. You just have to be mum about it when you talk with him and not let him know anything you might find.


I totally understand how you feel about this, HOWEVER: WS's will often lie about the relationships their OP's have with their spouses and/or the OP's have lied to the WS's about it. Either way, you can't be sure of this.

Especially since he knows your history. He could be using it to make you feel badly for her.

You WILL find out her name. It's inevitable. Either through snooping or other ways.

And don't feel bad about snooping, either. I did at first but WTH? We deserve to know the truth about things that are having such an explosive effect on our lives!


Yep! Isn't it funny how these WS's all seem to have the same script?


You're welcome. I'm glad I could be of some help!

Charlotte

Yes I know for a fact he's at his parents because I booked the flight myself and took him to the airport and he has called me from his parents house and their caller id comes up. I covered that one.

I do know her name got it from one of the vm's. That's what helped me in the exposure. After giving him one last chance to come clean and he didn't I was able to say then you need to tell me about "X". And I gave him very specific instances of when they talked and met. So he didn't have much choice but fess up then.

I thought about him lying about her situation. At this point nothing would surprise me.

We do have seperate laptops and I installed a keylogger on a trail basis and of course he never used it during that time. He actually uses it very little. I need to get it on his pc at work but I don't know how I would do that. At this point it doesn't seem to matter how much I confront him and tell him I know he's lying he just keeps going. It's truely unbelievable.

Since he's finally figured out how I was getting all my knowlege he changed his security code on his vm. I didn't want to give up my hand but I had enough. Now I think he knows all my "tricks" and it will make it even harder. On the other hand I don't even know if I can play this game any longer.

Yay!!


Did you call her? What about Intelius or one of those other search engines to try and get some background on her? peoplelookup.com will give you an address and home # for 2.95. And of course if you want extra stuff you can pay for that, too.


Darn! Well, that's a tough one. What a voice activated recorder in the car? Or one of the GPS's? I've heard that a certain cell phone can be used for this but I don't know which one.

All of course to collect as much evidence as possible.

Yeah, seems like some kinda screwed up WS survival instinct with the lying, ain't it?


Yeah, it really takes a toll on you mentally and physically, no doubt at all about that. But worry not, there are a lot of folks here who can offer some good tips. It's just so slow here on the weekend. For a while I dreaded weekends because I needed to post and get support but there was next to no one around here on the boards!

Charlotte

I only have her first name so that doesn't give me much to go on. I've tried to find her number some where any where. I've ripped the house apartment looking for a mysterous number and found a couple but not her's.

I came very close to getting a gps. Then I got him through vm so I didn't go through with it. Since then outside of work he goes no where without me. He did start right away calling me no matter where he was at work. His job requires him to be away from his desk a lot. He doesn't seem to have a problem not seeing her, but the talking he can't drag himself away from and the fact she keeps calling does not help.

Thanks for cooresonding with me today. It's been a long weekend. Thank goodness I go back to work tomorrow.

Hi Look,

Welcome to MB. For us BS's it's the most amazing place you can be given the circumstances. You are getting some great advice.

I'm sorry that you are going through this. It's something is hard to describe to other people and have them understand the pain and confusion, but we all do on here. We have been there and walked through it or are continuing to walk through it.

Darn! Well, you'll find out. Don't worry.


Well, it's good that he calls. But mine would call me so I wouldn't go out looking for him or call him in as missing. I almost did one night and that happened to be the night he was busted for DWI & Possession. Yeah, he was with her. I called her house and her husband said she was asleep on the couch. Stupid me goes and does whatever I can to get him out of jail. Should have let his *ss sit there and moulder!!

As for a GPS, there's a snooping thread on here somewhere. I don't know if you've seen it but I think it's called: "Spying 101."


No problem at all and you're welcome!! I am currently working on inventory here, which the judge ordered my WS-Mr. Gray to help me with and so far it's still just me!! LOL!!

Yeah, work will be good for you. Keeping busy really does help!!

Charlotte

Bumping for lookn4ans.