Great post Cat.

I think I had incorrectly seperated the issue of the M with the issue of the kids. I see now that they were only her way to manipulate me and draw me back in.

What I've been having a problem with is those that now say I am foolish for EVER considerin R. THAT was the original point, right.

I agree that R is WAY in the distance and very possibly impossible...but there IS still a faint glimmer of hope. I just hate that others refuse to see it!

It's easy for others to say 'get rid of that hag' when they don't have a history with her. Right?

Just know that people who say that, most likely think you're too nice, and she'll just tear you to shreds - again.

If you do have any intention of letting her back, I really really think you need to do some good, long IC work on yourself to learn why you have such a need to do for her/put up with her. You need to grow some backbone before you let her back. That's not a criticism, it's an observation that you just are too nice of a person for your own good, when you get paired with such a Taker. It's not healthy for you, and your kids will either turn into a version of you or of her, if you don't fix it now.

Once you did that, I could see some hope. But the way you are now? Nope.

Now THAT I DO understand! I completely agree that I have been a doormat and was probably too nice even when being screamed at, "I HATE YOU!"

I think I have just become accustomed to it over the years. It evolved over the last 15 years into abuse, neglect, and betrayal. I plan to speak with the same counselor as the kids.

Abandoned,

I am not going to give you specifics about my "uneasy" feelings, because if I knew enough to be specific the feelings would not be "uneasy" they would be heard by you.

I find it interesting that you feel you are being attacked. I find it interesting that you keep referring to people that are telling you to not R.
I find it interesting that you quit blogging and then go back to it, but don't mention it.

My guess much more is going on we don't know about. My posts to you have been very clear and concise with where I think you should be placing your priorities. Your choice to consider them or not.

Your W is a sick person from all you have said. You are wasting your time worrying about her other than to somehow get her some help. Hopefully MIL and FIL can do that. Where you have control and influence is with your children. As you already know I feel you are asking them to do something they cannot do...be the adult in this mess.

I note that you have not mentioned contacting a lawyer about protection for these children. I also note that as time as gone on the stance of the agency handling adoption appears to have changed either through further clarity in their guidance, or better advice from your lawyer.

Therefore, it is hard to offer any real advice other than general guidance that your kids need to be protected before they carry scars that will prevent them from ever really reconciling with their mother.

I really don't much more to say at this point.

God Bless,

JL

I DID state that I have an appointment with my attorney on Thursday.

AS to the stance of adoptions, realize that this child is not yet "free and clear" to be adopted. As previously explained, the father (in prison) has relinquished, the mother relinquished 22 months ago, but her attorney challenged it because he was not present. Now, they can't find her and will have to "terminate" her rights and allow her 30 days to appeal.

This leads to the confusion that I am dealing with two entities. Local DSS, who technically still has case management, and Adoptions, who had already approved OUR home for the placement once the child is "free and clear."

WW didn't make any friends at the local DSS because she voiced her opinion about all of the delays in a not-so-friendly manner. Thus, they seem to be making up their own rules in an attempt to punish her.

They had her name removed from the foster license and initiated the NO-Contact policy arbitrarily just for this case. Isn't it a little ironic that I can leave this child with ANYONE I choose EXCEPT the woman she has called "mommie" for 2 years? Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying she SHOULD be allowed visitation with her, I'm just pointing out why there is a discrepancy in policies.

Adoptions cleared up some of my questions last Thursday. Messy custody disputes are BAD. R is good, as long as MC is in place. Finances are HUGE. All the rest is simply the supervisor at DSS with a vendetta.

WW is "sick" right now. I CAN'T get her any "help," she won't hear that from me (or M).

And...I AM protecting my kids. Perhaps you aren't seeing it; but, I'm doing all I can with what I've got! Remember, no MESSY disputes. The last 2 visits WERE supervised, though not court ordered. The last one only lasted 1 hour...even supervised!

I'll let you guys know how FC goes tomorrow and what the lawyer says Thursday.

AB3,

I think you have done an admirable job of protecting your C during this entire nightmare. There are two or three posters on this forum who have suggested otherwise but at your point in this tempest, I would dismiss that advise as nothing more than dimestore phych advise, not backed up with anything more than irrevelant noise, butressed by nothing substancial.

Your kids absolutely need an emergency exit, if they are expected to walk into a burning building! That would be how they percieve their relationship with their insane mother. Your C are not insane, but it would seem some posters here are! I'll take my 2x4's from them but it will serve no difference.

The critisism you have taken from them is ludicrous. You have done well above and beyond what I would have subjected my C to.

In a sense, they are right. Stop being mr nice guy, and protect your kids from this craziness. You need to be in much closer contact with your lawyer.

If necessary, get a RO from your crazy W seeing or talking to your kids. They need your sanity, not your WW's insanity.

Relax and breathe. You do NOT have to defend yourself with certain self rightuous and self appointed counselors on this forum!!!!!

All Blessings,
Jerry

Why in the world would somone send their kids INTO a burning building?

"Here Honey, the building is on fire, but as long as you have this phone to call the fire department when the flames get close to you, you will be ok"




You think WE are insane?

Look somewhere else.

committed

My sentiments exactly.

Why don't other people see this?


committed

Thanks Commited, you've just put an exclamation point on exactly what I was trying to relay to AB3.

But you and MM seem to feel differently. Instead, you questioned AB3's motive and made it seem that his intension was insincere and had secnodary moives attached to it. Perhaps you are right, but I sicerely doubt it.

I just needed AB3 to understand that he does not need to defend his motive to you or anysone else. Sorry if that offends you, but I felt you crtique of AB3 was unjustified and unqualified!

All Blessings,
Jerry

I agree with you completely JL. I have felt from the beginning that there is a lot more to this than has been said. And I don't mean little unimportant details that have accidentally been omitted.

The first that I was truly aware of was in the very beginning, aw3 did not divulge immediately that his WW had had 2 previous affairs. He posted for several days and mentioned it in passing. When he was called on the point, he acted like ,"oh well, I forgave her so it was just not important to mention it."

I feel like the same thing has happened with the blogging. As I recall, there were many posts suggesting that blogging would give his WW a "fix" and aw3 agreed with the advice and seemed to CLEARLY agree that going dark would be for the best. Now, of course, aw3 can start blogging again if he so chooses. It's his choice, not ours, but the fact that he FAILED to mention it after the intense discussion about it is ....well...odd.

And I find it VERY odd that when he first described the altercation between his children and WW that he failed to mention one of the MOST important events of the evening...that he went TO her current home and had a "discussion" with her. This was not a nuance or small detail. It was a HUGE ommission.

And JL. I agree the MOST with you when you say that aw3 is asking his children to be adults in this mess. These children need to be protected FAR more aggressively than they are. The mother's abuse of her children nedds to be reported and I find it difficult to believe that a lawyer says there NEEDS to be proof to make a report.

If there is no legal seperation or visitation agreement in place right now, then aw3 can use THIS time to keep the kids away from their mother. He should have PLENTY of documentation to support his actions. After legal supports are in place, he will not have the same freedom to control her access to the kids.

Also, although few of us are qualified to diagnose, it is abundantly clear that WW is mentally unstable, for whatever reason. No amount of MB will "work" in a situation where untreated mental illness is present. (Dr. Harley has excellent articles dealing with this subject.) You can Plan B or Plan A or Plan ANYTHING and it will not achieve recovery, either of the mental illness OR the marriage. She needs treatment. Not discussion. Her repeated suicide threats alone might be enough to get her admitted into a psychiatric unit for a mandatory 72 hour hold(think Brittany Spears).

Stella said it perfectly when she said that she is NOT a normal cheater. There is more at play here. If she has a diagnosable mental illness, she is UNABLE(not necessarily UNWILLING) to control her thoughts OR her behavior.

aw3, you seem to be fearful that if you keep the children FROM their mother, that it is going to look bad for you. I am going to suggest that if you continue to send them to her, knowing that she has threatened suicide, knowing that she has abused them, knowing that her current behavior borders on maniacal, that THIS is going to look FAR worse for you in the legal arena.

Cat is right on about looking at this as a needed intervention. Have you ever heard that when a family member is chronically ill that the whole family is ill? That is how it seems with you.

Does her employer know how unstable she has been behaving?

And aw3, forgive me ,but your defensiveness really does bother me. Your comment a few pages back about "Ok take a deep breath..." and ignoring unwanted advice really stuck with me. It was so hurtful and so unnecessary to say that. You asked for help. No one says you have to take it, but stop being so surprised when you don't like what people say to you. People on this forum, as a rule, REALLY CARE!! Where else can you possibly go where marriage is truly considered sacred?

People are afraid for you and your children aw3. Do you not sense that from these posts? You have shared ALARMING information with us. People are praying for you, watching anxiously to see what is happening in the lives of your brave children, hoping and praying that your WW will get help. At the very least, REALIZE THAT!!!!

As a small example, and NOT to toot my own horn, it has taken me 2 hours, with MANY interruptions to type this reply. I know there are many others here who have put in the same kind of effort. It's because WE CARE!!!!!!

WH2LE

LOL...

We are all UNqualified sir. Even you.

Unless you have some kind of diploma hanging on your wall you can't exactly point that out about "others".


None of us profess to being "qualified". We all have opinions and the last time I looked we were ALL entitled to share that.

Don't be an enabler jerry...it isn't helpful.


committed

Why don't you ask AB3 about that, directly?

All Blessings,
Jerry

Of course he is going to think it is helpful...duh.

He needs the truth...as hard, abrasive, and hurtful as it is...

not the pat, pat, pat, you are doing the best that you can.


committed

MyRev,

Many of us, myself included, think that somehow we are special and that somehow MB will not work for us unless we "tweak" it to what we "feel" our needs should be.

I was as hard headed regarding how "unique" I though MY personal ordeal.

If I had found MB from the beginning there would be no OCDS. If I had made a plan and followed MB principles upon stumbling onto this site, there would have NEVER been another dday again.

But, alas, coulda, woulda and shouldas don't count.

I've sat here and watched AW3 from the beginning of his posts.

I see few differences between him and MANY of the BSs here that don't TRULY grasp how much the plans SAVE them and sheild them from a wayward's toxic maismas.

So I will keep harping on about him making, implementing and KEEPING a good plan; and getting something legal regarding visitations and his ww's contact with their children.

Regards,
Kimmy

So in other words, AB3 does not have a mind to think with, and only your opinion and that of a few others really makes a difference. (Duh)!!!!

Ab3, continue to [protect your C and keep in close touch with your lawyer.

Comimited, I wish you no ill feelings,

All Blessings,
Jerry

No jerry, that was YOUR position to me.

I have not said one word about other posters opinions. YOU did

I did not call them insane. YOU did.

I did not say they weren't helpful. YOU did.

YOU started this by dismissing my opinion.

I did wonder why other people didn't see what I did.

I just wasn't rude with my comment as you were.

committed

AW3,

A preface: I haven't been following your thread from the beginning. You have a lot of posters posting to you is the only reason I know of...and some of the best ones on MB, IMO.

Would you consider that it's possible that your local DSS doesn't have a grudge against your WW? That their actions may reflect acknowledging that your WW has some serious issues, hence, they need to be addressed first?

I have no idea if this is the case or not, or a mixture of both (retaliation for her outburst, or reasonable heed she will react that way with adults...what will she do when the child ticks her off?)...maybe healthy concern and some offense taken?

Am I hearing your concern about possibly losing the adoption because of having to put in custody issues?

And if their RO in place for the child and your WW...would you consider that would support Plan B for you and your children? Healthy boundary enforcement...which means you only use an intermediary, are not who supervises visits...and these prudent actions are for caution, respect that you cannot control what she says...hence, you wouldn't be present for the "I hate you" she may or may not say?

For now, it's okay to see what really is and what is not...threats of suicide are incredibly damaging to children...we have posters here on MB who went through that growing up repeatedly...big time impact. I think you already know this...so know it's impacting you, too, 'k?

LA

"Would you consider that it's possible that your local DSS doesn't have a grudge against your WW? That their actions may reflect acknowledging that your WW has some serious issues, hence, they need to be addressed first?"


Truly EXCELLENT point LA!!!!

WH2LE

The kids no NOTHING of the suicide threats.

And..I KNOW DSS has a grudge, but I don't necessarily disagree with their action anyway.