Good.

Very glad to hear this.


Yes, I wish she'd do alot of things differently.

But, allowing the kids to ignore her communications through the phone for weeks, probably didn't help.


This would have been a good opportunity to explain to them how important it is to leave a line of communication open between them....and talk to them about replying to her texts/phone calls.


Now that you are aware of it and that this has become such a huge issue, are you willing to do anything differently?

Abandoned,

I have some very unease feelings about a lot of things that are going on. I am not going to voice them because I don't have the data.

Having said that I do have data, lots of it on the function of Plan B and how it works. It is to preserve the love a spouse has for a wayward spouse. If love is preserved, it is possible to rebuild the marriage. If not, it because extraordinarily hard even if the wS wants to rebuild later.

Here is my point. Your kids are not married to your W, but they are just if not more emotionally connected to her. The more they are exposed to this behavior, the less chance they will have to really establish a loving relationship with her, when/if your W gets the help she needs. There is little doubt that your W has some very deep issues. There is little doubt each exposure to her right now diminishes the chances they will be able to overcome what she is doing to them when they are older and she has healed.

Right now their mother is "sick" very "sick". And frankly it would be in their best interests right now for them to view her as such. It means that in the future no matter how your marriage works out, they may well have a decent relationship with their mother. IT IS CRUCIAL THAT THEY HAVE SUCH A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR MOTHER IF IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE. But, to do that they must have some love left for her when it is time to normalize their relationship with her.

Being a guy, I think fathers/men have been given the short end of the stick with regard to this very thing by our court system. I think it is crucial for fathers to be in their kids lives. Likewise, I think it is crucial for the kids mother to be in their lives if at all possible.

I think you exposing the kids to their mother when she is this sick is bad for the kids. You need to seek protect for them. And then YOU need to build bridges for them back to their mother, when she does seek help. It won't happen if you allow those kids to be in the current situation. Especially your 12 year old. I can tell you that kids this age and younger have a hard time putting down hurts from this period when they get older.

I frankly don't give a flying ***** if your marrige recovers or not at this point. I am really worried about your kids. I know you are, but I also sense other things at play. As you like to tell us we don't know everything, which means our advice is of little use to you unless you agree, making me wonder why you really are here.

But, if you hear one thing I am saying PROTECT YOUR KIDS FUTURE RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR MOTHER, by protecting from their mother now. She needs help, and they will need their mother as they grow older.

God Bless,

JL

Sorry; but, NO, not after Friday!

Not saying that I've done EVERYTHING in EVERY situation the right way in the past 7 weeks...but I'm not now going to aid her in any way. SHE caused them to feel the way they do by her actions, decisions, manipulations, threats, emberassments, physical attacks, etc. Their feelings are just further consequences of what SHE has done...nothing I've done!

Then please take what legal actions you need to, and keep your children away from her.

So AB, why DID you go to her on Friday night after all she did? Because of the hysterical way she acted (again)?

See, that's what Plan B/going dark is about. It's to PROTECT you AND the children from the craziness. Enforcing it with a legal protective order will help.

Again, why did you go to her on Friday night? What was the purpose in doing that?

JL, I'm merely pointing out that it is IMPOSSIBLE to update every minute of every day and every corresponding emotion. You all know enough to give sound advice. Do I have to agree with or accept ALL of it? No. But, even you can see that, I've taken most of it and put it to use in this ordeal!

I was initially here searching for how to SAVE my M. Later, it became evident that I first needed to save MYSELF and not worry about the M or possible R until WW met certain conditions.

Did I screw up Plan B several times? YES
Did I accept the vast majority of the advice given here at those time? YES
Have I taken many of the steps advised here? YES (but the adoption DID prevent SOME)

It's just been difficult to switch gears from trying to SAVE my M to now hearing I'm a fool for even CONSIDERING R...WAY down the road! WW WILL NOT be back here today, tomorrow, or even weeks from now...regardless of any efforts at R.
Is it still possible if she get s the "help" she needs in the future? YES

I agree that the kids NEED a relationship with their mother. I WANT them to have that. But...a relationship with her in her present condition could possibly scar them for life into hating her. At every point of contact between them, WW has added months or even YEARS to the amount of time it will now take for them to respect her again!

Most excellent post, JL.

I wouldn't have except that M and her husband were also present.

I suppose it WAS because of her hysterics (once again!).

But, I think we can all agree, her words were WAY BEYOND hysterical. I had hoped to convince her that she needed "help," although I knew she wouldn't hear it from me.

I fully expected to either get a call or to find her car wrecked on the side of the road with her corpse inside. That's how "hysterical" she sounded...saying things about me, her children, and God that NO sane person would EVER utter!

At least now I know her melodramatic words can't get any worse...she said the most damaging things she could possibly say Friday! And, YES, I know, I know, I'm in Plan B and shouldn't even be hearing them...but she used the kids as the conduit to get to me this time!

JL, Please enlighten me...if I have the data, I'll be glad to share. Seriously, I'm just curious what else you think MIGHT be going on?

Does she drink?

I'm glad you see her behavior for what it is AB. I know down deep you really want to see a healthy wife, but at this point, it would take an outright miracle for that to happen.

The reason I asked if she drank is because she is behaving a lot my FWH behaved. He would totally lose control and do and say the most outrageous things, but mostly while he was drinking. He was wrestling with God big time and became more and more despondent as time passed on.

JL,

You are not alone in your "uneasy feelings about a lot of things going on", including AW3's motivations for coming here, since he's basically just been defending himself over "why" he chose to not accept the advice he was being given.

I also sense that AW3 "image" within the church and his family is a very high priority for him.

I understand that we don't know the whole story, but I think that may be on purpose.

First, WW RARELY drinks (2-3 times in our M)...and I don't really think she is on drugs either.

Next...PLEASE tell me what you think, MR and JL, is going on that I haven't shared. I assure you, I am an Open Book. If there's something I've omitted, or mislead you about accidentally, I'll be glad to clear it up.

Oh, and YES, my "image" and status within the community is of course important to me, but, I haven't done anything to tarnish it.

WW's M asked if I wanted WW back so that I could "parade her around as the forgiven harlot." WW told her that I had said I would RUIN her if she didn't come home (which, I've NEVER said!).

I think the fact that I've taken her back before, changed churches, and avoided ANY appearance of wanting her to wear a scarlet letter should prove that I NEVER had that motivation...nor did I EVER say that!

You weren't exactly forth coming about the conversations and contact that you had w/ your WW.

You've omitted your part of the conversation w/ your WW, and have only told us the most insane things she's said.

You led us to believe that you weren't writing in your blog anymore.

Earlier I copied this from your blog...


And I asked you about this...

ab,

What did you mean by this? What was driving a wedge between you and your WW? The kid's activities?

YES, the kids activities, the church activities...even the things I did around the house. The things I once did FOR WW are now made to sound as though I did them TO her.

And, what does a blog have to do with any of this? I'm not under investigation here, I'm just sharing my tragedy and reading your opinions/advice.

As to what I said to WW Friday. HONESTLY...VERY little! I remember several times saying, "You don't really mean this."

I told her that her kids did still love and respect "MOM," but that they, nor anyone else, recognize her now and that they only vaguely remember how "MOM" used to be after all of this.

I asked her several times to tell me where she was when she claimed to be "doing 100 mph looking for a bridge!" I WAS worried about her...I don't know what she's capable of anymore.

I told her that I did indeed want her to have a relationship with her kids but that, every time I talk them into calling or make them come for visits, SHE does something to cause them further resentment.

I basically said that I COULD NOT be blamed for the consequences of her decisions...any of them!

Respectfully, I have to tell you guys all the same thing. Why are we losing focus about the 3 kids, the crazed WW, and the adoption just to start pointing fingers at me? Again, I FULLY admit that I am not perfect nor have I always handled this situation perfectly...but I am doing the best I can given the ever-changing circumstances!

I asked this a few pages back, but it must have gotten missed with all the recent events.

I do think it's worth looking at in your particular circumstance as your WW's behavior reminds me so much of a very dear friend of mine's.

How did your wife come to Christianity? I recall you saying her mother is NOT Christian. Was your WW Christian when you met her?

Exactly.

So why didn't you just say, "I don't agree about not blogging, and am going to continue." ?

That would have let some of us know early on that you didn't want our advice.

I may be back later to respond to the rest of your post, if not, I wish you and your family well.

No problem MM; and, I DID stop blogging for a week. Didn't realize that I was obligated to always do what I was told here.

Jill, I led WW to the Lord when she was 16. Prior to dating me, she had hardly ever even been to church.

Of course you are not obligated to take any advice here. OTOH, if you say you are taking advice (stopping blogging) then reverse that decision unannounced, others here trying to help you don't have all the information. Unless I missed it somewhere, I thought you went totally dark, including blogging?

What was your relationship with her at 16? Are you guys around the same age?

We were dating. I am 2 1/2 years older than her. She was a junior in HS, I was a Freshman in college. Strange that we survived the "long ditance" thing then, but can't survive WHATEVER is happening now!

And, maybe I should've alerted you guys that I was blogging again, but I didn't think the two sites were linked together. My bad! Honestly, I got alot of emails asking me to start again, so I decided to!

aw3, I know you're feeling attacked because of people questioning your actions. But I hope you'll step back and realize that if people here do question your actions, it's for a reason.

That reason is that there is a formula here at MB. A formula for the best possible chance of getting a WW to come back and restore the marriage. There are many steps to that formula, and the one I've seen that is both the hardest AND the most effective is GOING DARK. Now, you have had a really hard time with this from day one, and we all see it. We may commend you on your progress, yet at the same time, we see you backstepping all over the place. "Yes, but..."; "Well, I meant to, but..."; "I wouldn't have done that, but..."

Do you see how, despite the good work you're doing, you are STILL being manipulated? And that the only result from your going along with that manipulation is to give WW what she wants - the drama to feed off of, so as to keep her in the center of everyone's circle. And that because you keep giving in, you are prolonging the agony the whole family is going through, including your children?

You're not being asked the tough questions here because we like to tear people down. We are trying to protect you from your own good will. Your own tendency to be a nice person and to hate to see people in pain.

If you have to, think of it as an intervention. If you were trying to break your son of a drug addiction, you'd hate to see him in pain from the withdrawal, you'd hate to see him resort to crying, begging you for help to ease the pain. But you'd know that you CAN'T give in, because that would only hurt him in the long run. As tough as it would be, you would have to remain firm and seem cold and mean to him, to get him through it so he can get back to being your son.

If you truly love her, you will do the same thing - for her. Stop all access she has to you except the M. Ask the M not to tell her anything at all about you. Make her suffer the consequences and realize the depth of her mistakes.

What you're doing now is hurting everyone, especially your kids. Go dark. Stop blogging, you can live without that 'fix' for now, for everyone's sakes. Don't respond to her - AT ALL. File an injunction so the kids don't have to see her til she's been through some sort of rehab. Get this nonsense over with.