Good to know about DSS...my bad about not knowing that the kids had not overheard or intuited during crisis time, nor were told directly by WW.

Thank you for answering my questions.

LA

Also, thanks Jerry!

I did come here seeking advice and an opportunity to vent at times.

Frankly, I couldn't give a rip about anyone's opinion who doesn't give a **** about the sanctity of marriage...at any cost.

My M may NEVER recover nor do I even necessarily think it should. But...if WW DOES have a mental or emotional illness, I will do whatever I can do to help...regardless of R!!!

My particular point about the suicide threats was not that the children had heard them, but that she had made them at all.

Children are NOT safe in the hands of someone who is/has threatened suicide.

It only matters that aw3 and numerous other witnesses KNOW that WW has made this threat.

WH2LE

Abandoned,

You said
Suspect this was directed at me. Not a problem.

God Bless,

JL

I pray to God that you don't get that call one day to find that she had the children in the car with her. Please protect your children.

***UPDATE***

WW just sent word to me via M that she wants to know what she will have to do to come home.

M advises that WW, right now, is interested in re-establishing her relationship with the children, and our M recovery is secondary.

My only statement in reply for now is that she should tell her that IC is the absolute first step (M assured me that NC with OM was already in place!).

If IC is the first step, what, in your opinions, should be step two?

Of course it is no secret that R is my ultimate goal, but what else (other than the legal aspects: postnump, etc) should I not forget?

My mind is easily clouded and I don't want to make ANY decisions I will regret later!

This is the best list I can think of:

You need to set aside any hopes for R right now. This woman needs strong psychiatric help, in the gentlest sense of the word. I'm not advocating divorce. I'm saying that R needs to be AFTER she gets her head on straight.

1. Get whatever help she needs to insure no more suicide threats, or other self-centered drama, EVER, EVER AGAIN! You will not expose the children to that kind of behavior.

2. 6 month cooling off period where she demonstrates a track record that her children are more than just accessories to her drama. That you are more than a pawn for her depraved attacks, and that she can be diligent in recovering her soul.

3. Clearance from DSS to have access to her children and your adoptive daughter.

4. Post-nup custody agreement - if for whatever reason she decides to abandon her family again, or any hint of suicidal manipulation, she leaves with nothing but supervised visitation.

5. Clear household responsibilities - no more pampering of the queen. She is a participant and invests in the wellbeing of her home and family.

Hmmm...IMHO, reestablishing her relationship with the children does not require that she come back home to the marriage. She can accomplish this on her own with a serious committment to IC.

I guess the question is are you willing to allow her back home knowing that M recovery is secondary?

If so, then I have to ask myself, why you are willing to even go there? Some serious IC for yourself could help answer that question.

If your goal is to get her back in the home and 'in the marriage', 'at any cost'... then again IMHO, you're setting yourself up for some serious problems down the road.

From the little you've shared, there doesn't appear to be any remorse or recognition of responsibility on her part, nor a sincere desire or will from her to intropect and look at fixing what is broken inside of her.

Sounds like a recipe for more disaster.

What Kayla said.

And "NC" is more than just "NC". She should write a letter of "No contact" to OM and give it to you to mail. But in her frame of mind, I'm not sure she's even up to this, especially since she says restoration of her relationship with her children is primary, instead of her marriage.

I'd also be very wary.

I'd also ask for a sit-down counseling session for the whole family maybe with your pastor at first (for the spiritual aspect) and then with a licensed professional?

What were the terms in your PBL?

Your M SHOULD not be telling you that she wants to come home. If you come running every time WW whispers into M's ear that she may or may not be interested in coming back, what will you solve?

Zippo. The big NADA! You're right back with a ww that uses you after she traipses thru caca.

M should be referring her to the PBL and re-iterating that ALL those terms MUST be met BEFORE you'll even hear her out.

Your M hoovers big-time. Mas suckage.

Sorry.

Yes. What K&A said.

AND re-send the PBL letter.

And BE DARK!

One more thing: Words whisper. Actions SHOUT.

Where are ww's ACTIONS as yet?

Telling?

I think so.

What she is asking is "what is the MINIMUM that I have to do to come home"?

Past multiple affairs have never been dealt with and she is anticpating a repeat performance for this one.

Nevermind the mental health issues.


People have offered you different opinions about that. People have encouraged you put the R talk aside and just focus on the safety and welfare of your children. You don't seem to be very receptive to hearing any advice that differs from what you want to do.

Well, how is YOUR way working?

committed

This is true AB. You have an opportunity right now to turn this thing around for your family. It should require some hard steps for your W to take (on her own) and then a show of geniune remorse and repentence. Isn't that what you want to show your children?

Yes there can be forgiveness, but even the Bible says to repent and TURN from your sins. Adultery hasn't been the only sin here. Right? Even the prodigal son was willing to work in the fields or do whatever it took. He did not EXPECT to be welcomed back and shown mercy.

She's not really thinking about her kids right now, IMHO. She HATES to think that she's lost them. Is her cry for help just another cry of desperation and a way for her to get back the control where her kids are concerned or is she really repentent? How will you know?

AB, it would be foolish to let her just come home immediately. There needs to be some healing and accountability. You know that though.

Ab - there's a saying about ignoring the elephant in the living room.

I think all the energy being directed at you that you're perceiving as attacks comes from the sense that you might be ignoring the elephant that's crowding in on your life.

You need some space from your wife and all the drama - she always comes in with some disruption - it's affecting your income in sales, it's effecting many areas of your life. Not to mention what it has done to your children. You all need some space and breathing room from her.

If you don't get this, then at some point, even if you were to reconcile, you would boil over because the elephant is still there, with everyone tiptoeing around to avoid a big stink!

She needs help - the kind of help you and your children and even her parents can't give her.

Please insist on every single step - send it in your Plan B letter - you need to Plan B her even if she's not with OM anymore. Because her behavior is destructive. Because she hasn't learned empathy and you can't teach it to her. Because you need to be DAD more than you need anything right now.

Six months, minimum. Visitation supervised. Careful. Orchestrated by someone other than you.

I absolutely do want and appreciate the opinions of those who "care" about this.

I NEVER said she would be coming home soon, only that SHE wanted to know the first step. IC wasn't an original part of the PBL, but I think it is the primary concern right now!

I only offered up the FIRST step...not the long-term goal!

Whether R happens or not, this woman NEEDS help!!!

I can at least offer her that perpective regardless...she IS still the mother of my children, whether she acts like it or not!

Will she be going to IC with a fully informed IC (meaning that IC has seen the text messages and stuff she's pulled) so that she has a chance of having a proper diagnosis and treatment?

Oh, okay 1st step... cause your post said this:


I think that's why everyone thought you meant now. She IS the mother of your children and NOTHING will change that... barring her rights being terminated, but I don't think she's that far gone!

We're on your side AB, really.

Yes.

And SHE must get it. This is hers to own and clean up.

Ab

I don't see that she is going to be able to just come home . Your life, your children's lives will be a mess if that happened. She cannot handle R and the damage she has caused staring her in the face minute by minute, day by day. She will crack and run the first time an uncomfortable issue presents itself and that will be the moment she walks in the door. SHE is not healthy enough to come home. She needs IC and possibly a medical evaluation prior. She needs weeks, if not months, of managing herself before managing a family again. KWIM?

If she comes home tomorrow (as an example)...what would happen?

The first disrespectful word that came out of your son's mouth would put her in a tailspin and you would soon follow.

She is not ready...you are not ready...the kids are not ready.

And this doesn't even touch on R of the M.

R is hard. It is hard on the BS and it is hard on the WS. She will have to face, up close and personal, the terrible choices that she has made. It's enough to put a WS into a depression, not to mention sick at the mention of the A. She's not ready.


And this doesn't even touch on whether she is truly remorseful and wanting to R.

She just doesn't like how the children are responding to her horrific choices.

If that is her only concern, or primary concern, that relationship can recover OUTSIDE of your home. She has to prove to them that she is deserving of their respect, that she can act loving and caringly towards them...like a mother. She doesn't have to come home for this.


She only gets to come home if she is remorseful and is willing to do whatever it takes to help YOU recover and your M recover.


And besides ALL this...I think it's more drama. She still han't hit rock bottom.

She should gets lots of help before she steps a foot back into that house.