We are going into week 5 since the original outing of the EA my WH is having. Last Friday I discovered a vm on his cell which told me he did talk to her because she said to call her back. I can not get him to just tell me when there is contact so we can deal with it (no honesty). He said he told her not to contact him but she still is. Even though he says he hasn't contacted her since leaving a message telling her this I don't really by it.

So now what? Do I revisit the rule of honesty and protection and try to work on starting NC over?

I'm reading a lot about not bringing up the A and it's past as well as not talking relationship stuff now. I could probably stop the relationship talk and let him deal if the NC would start and actually continue.

He's been away visiting family for the past 4 days (yes I'm 100% positive that is where he is at) and comes home late tonight so we will be talking tomorrow.

Really need advice on where to go from here.

How did he begin NC? Was it a letter that he wrote that you read and sent? If not, I would start there. The letter not only tells the OW not to contact him again, but states his commitment to you and to your M. A phone call is NOT the same thing.

You cannot begin recovery with contact. And if he isn't being honest about when she contacts him then he is still encouraging contact in a way because he doesn't see the importance of NC. It must be a united front against her. When she calls, he tells you.

Could he change his cell phone number and email? That might be the easiest way to avoid it. But the NC LETTER is a must.

You can read the beginning of my thread and see the debate that Mimi and I had regarding NC Letter. I fought it because I felt like H had already told her. But the letter was the end. It was so important to me and to him.

HTM

NC began with a vm he left her. This is what he told me. I know recovery can't begin without NC but he doesn't seem to get this.

He can't change his cell # because it is a work cell. That's the only one he has. He had another I found out about and we literaly destroyed that one.

As far as email, he could change his personal but not his work. Besides what will stop him from just creating another email account. He's gotten very good at not checking email at home. So he's hard to catch on that front

I want to do the letter or what do you think of us coming up with an agreed to script and he calling her while I am there?

Look,

The heck with the NC letter!!

You must stop the A, which is still going on.

I would go the EXPOSURE route to stop the A (EA?) Expose to who ever has influence on your H and the OW. Is the OW married?

"I'm reading a lot about not bringing up the A and it's past as well as not talking relationship stuff now. I could probably stop the relationship talk and let him deal if the NC would start and actually continue."

Again, back up. The A is still ongoing, so I think you can't not bring up the A. If this is really an EA, then every contact continues the EA. THE EA IS STILL GOING ON, so you must bring up the A. If not, it's the big elephant in the room, correct?

AFTER the A is over and the NC letter is in place and you both are committing to rebuilding the M, THEN you try not to bring up the A.

Plan A has the carrot AND THE STICK! Read up on the stick. You are fighting for your M right now and your WH is a very ambivalent fighter in this war, because he is also is communicating with the enemy.

IMHO

kirk

"NC began with a vm he left her. This is what he told me."

Adulterers lie. This is one basic truth. So either take everything your WH says with a grain of salt, or don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

Right now I don't think anyone has influence over my H. Seriously. He doesn't have any buddies that I would trust to help with this in the way it needs to. The OW is married, but I don't know her last name or where she lives, I haven't been able to get a phone # or email. He's covering his tracks well.

It's a huge elephant! And I'm tired of it. He doesn't seem to get I can't do this without the NC and neither can he. I'm going to try again tomorrow to get the NC process started again. But if he won't I don't know what choices I have left.

I don't believe what he tells me. As of last Friday he was trying to tell me she didn't leave vm on his cell phone, which I called BS to. I think he finally figured out I was getting into his vm because now he changed the code. Yeah I'm s***d on that one.

Hearing that your H won't check email at home and isn't telling you about vms...I agree with K...the A is still going on. Your H doesn't buy in to NC because he doesn't want to stop doing what he is doing.

Expose. Do a Plan A. He will not like it because you are trying to take his addiction away from him. Do it anyway if you want your M to survive. He is in a fog.

NC doesn't work until your H ends the A. That's why he doesn't buy into it. That's why he told you he ended it in a vm. NC is a letter that YOU send that HE writes. It's a written affirmation of his commitment to your M. He is not there yet. He is still in the A.

The OW doesn't work with him does she?

Where did she come from?

No she doesn't at least I don't think so. You'll love this one...the rare occasion (seriously very rare) he goes out with a guy from work he met her at a bar. Last fall he told me. He said a couple times after that he seen her at the bar and then that's when they started contacting each other. But who knows really.

L4A...

I just finished reading your other thread...Btw, it's best to post everything on one thread if possible...It keeps your story together and allows you the benefit of getting the most informed input...Not everyone will go and read multiple threads...That being said, I'm not beating you up about it, just offering you a bit of the wisdom that I've acquired during my time here...No worries!

Okay, let's dig in...You absolutely, positively MUST expose this affair...Affairs thrive in darkness and crumble in the light of day...Do his parents even know L4A? THEY MUST BE TOLD!!! This affair needs to be exposed to anyone and everyone that has influence with your WH...Friends, siblings and yes, even his employers...Employers don't usually look kindly upon company time and resources being used to further affairs...Exposure works best when done in one fell swoop, giving the affairees no chance to gather their composure. (Btw, it would not surprise me in the least to learn that OW has traveled to where your husband is visiting his parents and that they have indeed seen each other during this time period. Scarily enough, he may even have introduced her to his parents. He may have twisted things and lied and led them believe that your marriage has been horrible for YEARS...It is your job to correct that notion by giving them the TRUTH about what is really going on!)

I guarantee you that he has lied to you regarding OW's abusive home situation, and of course it is entirely possible that she has lied to him about it...Do NOT let that keep you from exposing...Look, if OW was really that scared of her husband, do you think she'd be cheating on him? I'd think she would be too scared of his reaction to make a move like that, don't you? Her situation is NOT your problem anyway...She is a grown-up who is actively destroying your family...You must ACT. Can you afford to hire a P.I. to find out who she is? That is what I would do.

You don't have NC right now, because the affair is very much actively continuing. Don't let yourself be fooled. He most certainly did NOT tell her to stop contacting him. I guarantee you that. What he told her is that now that you know that they will need to be more careful. I tell you this as a FWS (former wayward spouse) myself. Waywards LIE. Do NOT believe anything that he tells you at this time. Trust only ACTIONS. The words of an active wayward mean NOTHING. You guys aren't at the maintaining NC contact stage yet. YOU are in the "MUST EXPOSE THIS AFFAIR" stage. Are you willing to do that L4A? If so, let's get started, okay?

Mrs. W

P.S. Do not believe his history rewrite about how long he hasn't loved you. He stopped loving you when OW came on the scene...That is a FACT that you can take to the bank. He most DEFINITELY can fall back in love with you once OW is out of the picture. She is like a DRUG to him...He is an ADDICT...Remember that, he will behave like an ADDICT in all ways...We must work to get him away from his drug of choice, k? Just like an addict, when that happens he will go through a withdrawal period, once that is over, then you will see your old husband emerge, but not until...

L4A...

Begging and pleading for NC will do NO GOOD WHATSOEVER...You are going to have to EXPOSE this affair...That is the only way...Are you willing to expose the affair L4A?

Mrs. W

Sorry for the 2nd thread but my first one didn't seem to be getting me anywhere

Ok if I expose to friends, employeer, family what do I want them to do? Confront him about it? Ok, that was probably a stupid question but I really feel stupid here. Seriously I don't think they would. I can not bring his parents into this. They are in their 80's and my FIL is in very bad health. There is absolutely no way he would bring her with him. His parents are so supper religous trust me it wouldn't happen. I'm not sure about a lot of things but this one I would take to the bank.

I wouldn't doubt he lied to me about her situation and/or she lied to him.

I honestly don't know if I can afford a PI. Haven't looked into it.

I'm thinking if I can get him to do the letter and I get her name and address I could work from there. It would give me a lot more then I have now. Then I could expose to her H.

Yes I want to expose this and it to be over. The past 5 weeks are killing me. I'm just so unsure how to go about this without the whole thing blowing up in my face. Guess it can't get much worse then it is and the possible outcome anyway.

L4A....

I know that you are very confused and hurting right now, that is more than understandable...I also know that many of the actions that you are being told to do here seem very counter-intuitive to you, but they WORK. (Don't be embarrassed about asking questions here, that is what this place is for-we understand! ) Yes, you do want those that you expose to to confront him about his HORRIBLY WRONG and IMMORAL behavior. Yes, Yes, Yes! That is what he needs. When you expose to them you ASK FOR THEIR HELP and ADVICE. People like to give advice. You ask them to help save your family. You tell them that you very much love your husband and ask that they do all that they can towards helping you save your marriage.

Exposure is a LOVING action L4A, just like interventions are loving towards drug addicts. Your husband is actively destroying himself as well as you and your family. Those that love and care about him deserve the opportunity to try and help him, wouldn't you agree?

That would include his parents L4A. Tell his mom L4A. Being in your eighties does not mean that you no longer have a right to help those that you love. His mother would want to know. You can let her decide if your FIL's health permits him knowing.

L4A, my own mother is largely responsible for the ending of my affair. She stood strong and held fast to the courage of her convictions. She acted with my husband behind the scenes. She loved me enough to endure the venom that I spewed her way. She saved me from myself. She saved me from destroying our family. She saved our daughter from having a broken home. Really in a way, she saved my eternal soul, as the Bible clearly says there will be no unrepentant adulterers in Heaven. She and my husband, Mr. W, worked together to do that. I owe them my life. I will never be able to repay them for what they did for us.

L4A, exposure is your most powerful tool to fight this. To help yourself and your husband. Do not throw it away. I beg you to use it. I beg you to see that your words will fall on deaf ears when you try to talk your active addict husband into anything where the affair is concerned. PLEASE BELIEVE ME. Words will NOT work. You are NOT currently dealing with the man that you've known and loved for years. He is LOST right now...GONE...Exposing this affair to the light of day is the BEST chance you've got. Right now, he is lost to you...Count on it...Right now, there is no marriage to save, and there won't be until OW is out of the picture. Exposure is how you will achieve that goal.

Your marriage CAN survive your husband's anger, but it CANNOT and WILL NOT survive an ongoing affair.

Right now, go and call a P.I. and see if you are able to afford that route. It is my understanding that many folks here have used Frank Music Investigations with success in finding out who the OP is. You might start there. Here is his information:

Frank Music Investigations
Phone: (757) 872-7007
Fax: (757) 886-0611
Toll Free: (800) 358-9331
Email: fminvestigations@att.net
Address: 816 McCrae Drive
Newport News, VA 23608-9360

Mrs. W

Hi lookn4ans,

It's good to see you again. I was wondering how you were. Did you think about getting that GPS setup with the cell phone? And put a keylogger on the pc anyway.

He might be communicating while your alseep. Mine stayed up 'til all hours. Like I didn't KNOW WTH was going on! *gag*

Charlotte

Here's the thing.....

YOU cannot MAKE him do anything....

the only person you can control is yourself. You are not POWERFUL enough to control your WS.

Also, there is no way is going to give you this information UNLESS he is committed to RECOVERY. And by his actions, he is not.

My WS wouldn't do any of this either. He told me from the get-go he wrote a NC letter, but never showed it to me either. That would be because he didn't do that. And then he proceeded to LIE and DECEIVE me on who she was (let me tell you, from the beginning he told me she was a 24 yr. old divorced mom with 2 kids, who lived in Neb. whom he had just met in Aug.07. and it was only an EA with emails. TRUTH....she was a 42 yr old, married with 3 kids, lived in Fl., had worked with for 2 yrs, and it was a full-blown PA..... ). The thing was, I found out all this ON MY OWN....with NO HELP from WS. Why??? Not to protect me, like he claimed, but to protect HER and to keep his A going.

And you know what, as a BS, I came up with ALL KINDS OF EXCUSES on why I couldn't snoop or find more info. EVeryone else here told me to stop it and get to work.....and that is what I see you doing. MAKING EXCUSES.....

not2fun

ps...I know I was harsh, but to be honest it was some of the harsh posts that kicked my butt into gear....oh, and once I truly started snooping, it all came together rather quickly and ended with a full-blown confrontation with them (not planned though.... ....but that night is one of best accomplishments through my ordeal. That was the night that ended the PA...and quickly ended their A altogether.....and only after that was done and NC was established and verified by ME, are we able to travel this road in Recoveryville TOGETHER....)

YOu are trying to control things here. Let his parents decide what is right.

And there is NO WAY IN HECK I would place ANY BETS on a WS.

Mine skipped his DD14's birthday and flew to HER to try and CONVINCE her to continue on with him.......we were told that he was in CA. on a business trip.

NEVER EVER UNDER-ESTIMATE what the WS will do to get their fix.

Mine introduced her to his PARENTS..... ..(in my In-laws defense they did not know she was BOW...and didn[t know till later on...)

And with your In-Laws being old and in poor health, there is A LOT he could do with her there and THEY would not know.......


take you head out of the sand........

not2fun

Hey Char....


Good advice.....

Mine was glued to his affair-phone.... .....like I didn't know WTH was going on.....


not2fun

Thanks, not2!!

And I second that emotion:

LOL!