Thanks for the heads up on the book. I think it can be a long process to determine 'what' a person is, lol.

Yes, we can get too wrapped up in that process, too. I like to believe that if everyone could just go through life seeking to help, not hurt, we'd all be in a good place. Unfortunately, human nature always seems to creep in, and our tendency to get more for us at the expense of others as well. Kind of like the reason Communism failed: if people are not invested, they won't work as hard, but if they have a vested interest in what they're doing (as in making more money or moving up in life), they'll work harder. Same thing with relationships, I think - we have to have a payoff.

Yeah that about sums up what I did and vow to never do again.




In so many words yeah we do. Unconditional love is all I seek to give and get.

ezb, that's why I tihnk it's so important that MB and 12 step programs have such strong components for actions that we can take. Because choosing our actions can reinforce the thoughts and the focus that we choose and vice versa.

It certainly is ears. Thats why I need to get firmer on the step program I started this thread with. I've been making additions in the steps (how, when, what I did, what to do different) but I feel I need to get stronger in the action part of it. I'll work on that much more now.

She told me last night that she doesn't believe I love her.

So...I guess no separating for 30 days, huh?

Well we've been separated for awhile now. I have no idea to be truthful whats going to happen. I plan on just concentrating on me and we made an agreement to go to counseling together which is tomorrow night. I'm just going to leave her alone now and I really don't believe in setting a time frame like that. Things have changed so often. I know I don't plan on contacting her after what she said last night other then legal thhings. She said she sees the love I put into building the lighthouse but doesn't think I love her? Rather confusing.

Which will also mean I have to stay off of these boards too. Hard to improve things without help but I guess I'll just work on me and getting my now life straight on my own.

Something else too is she said nothing is getting resolved. How can it if we don't have sessions, she doesn't go to therapy and we don't communicate.

Thank you everyone for your help, your efforts, your time, your understanding and the care and interest you have shown in helping. It has been and is greatly appreciated by me.

Ezb, you can improve your half by making a plan of action and sticking to it. Your consistency will speak to her if it's salvagable. And if not, then you'll still be a happier person for your changes.

I'll be sorry to see you go. What do you think about posting on other threads?

Yes I can do that ears. She hasn't heard or seen anything I have done. I texted her yesterday afternoon to see if she was going to counseling with me so I could at least be somewhat prepared for what to bring if I was on my own and that was the wrong thing to do also. At twice last night in a phone conversation she asked me a question and before I barely got the answer out she repeated my answer and then said or is it that ...... She wasn't asking so she could hear my answer, in her head she already had the answer (her answer not mine).

She said she wasn't going to counseling last night because she was still stressed and sick from seeing me saturday. All she could do last night was scream and yell at me on the phone and tell me what a horrible person I have been. I'm nothing but a monster the way she talks to me. Everything I say and everything I do is viewed as the worst possible thing (this had actually been happening a lot long before she filed for divorce) and not what it was intended or meant to be. Ive been trying to give loving solutions but thats obviously not helping or working.

She screamed and yelled that its over and that shes done. Then when it comes down to it she wont let go. I ask at the end if thats it, your done? Immediately she assumes I heard nothing else about what was said and that was the only thing I was thinking about. She ignores my questions and expects immediate answers to hers and if I don't give them immediately then I'm being manipuating and controlling. I can't give an answer I don't feel safe giving or if I need to think about it before I give that answer (I've given her that haven).

When I ask about why we never talked about her feelings when I did things (the list I made up of what I thought she felt) like she said we would and why did she say that and not follow thru she said I brought it in the car that night. Thats not going over it like she said. The way she said it made me feel like it was my fault we didn't go over it. But what if I would have pushed to go over them? Then I'm manipulating, pushing and controlling. But then we never get anything resolved we keep going over the same things. Fog babble. Can't get them resolved if we don't go over them.

She asked last night if I had talked to the MC about the lifestyle or about manipulation and control. No I haven't and I don't feel safe doing that when I'm there by myself. I don't feel safe because as I have said I don't think it would be a clear view on it all and what happened without her input also.

Edit: She also said that she would stay off of here from now on. Is that suppose to help us too like all the other steps she has taken to move further away?


What a mess huh.

Ya know the ironic thing about it? I have possibly saved 1 marriage and given great insight and help to a couple that is soon to be married. Can't improve my relationship though.

Does it get worse like this before it gets better or is this just the end?

ezb, I struggle with that, too, how hard it is to give the space your partner needs. For me, it is fear, kind of like you described, that if I let go today, that will be it, my partner will go and harm the marriage. I can imagine for you it would be deeper as someone struggling with infidelity. And that specific type, watching your partner trolling for other partners on the computer. Wow, that would be so hard.

I think that's why the 12 steps programs like AA, Alanon, SAA, have their first, second and third step, because we can't do it alone.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

I bet it was and yes it is.

ezb, I hope you know I didn't mean that as a slam, but as one of understanding. We all did things that we weren't proud of, that we make amends for and do differently. I don't know if you've read my thread, but I think you know I've done things that I am sorry about, too.

I think the important part for today is to choose our actions. You are pushing her away. I met with my MC last night, alone because my H is out of town, and that's what she told me, too. I knew this, but I needed to hear it again.

When you all get to the business of recovery, that's when there would be the commitment and the extraordinary precautions. Not you pushing from the outside, but her commitment from the inside, from her choice. We cannot create commitment for other people. They choose it.

Of course when you are separated today it's going to be more difficult. I am trying to remember why you two are still separated?

That's why I encourage folks to call the Harleys, because then you can feel confident that in your plan you're following the best expert advice available.

Yes I read the understanding in it.


No I haven't read it.



She chooses not to see me.

]

Well, they're separated because they're divorced! I'm still standing by my earlier statement. I don't care what bunny told you about getting back together, a person who goes for, and gets, a divorce, is wanting out. At least for the immediate future.

IMO, the ONLY way you will ever get back together is for you to back off, for at least 30 days, and let her get her wits about her. Let her live on her own and in silence and peace, and come to grips with who she is as a human - without a man.

Show her the respect you say you have - leave her alone and let her get her bearings.

I actually left because I was accused of cheating when I was not. And that was not the first time. I still believe that due tto his first wife cheating he has never learned how to actually trust someone fully that they would not do that and believe that they are not that type of person.


It is so very hard to so show someone respect when they can not and never have done that from the beginning. Just as the people on here are trying to help they are not being shown respect by that person they are trying to help. As they have been lied to. They were told by this person that they were not active in the lifestyle when they really are again and it was never something this person was ever going to be able to give up to rebuild the marriage or relationship. It has caused them to become so controlling and manipulating which only has hurt the ones that have loved them.

Are you saying that he is currently into the swinging lifestyle?

I am saying he has been on the website he has several times lately. I could not tell you if he is doing anything or not.