Bunny, that's OK, I expected him to get defensive. Anyone that caught up in a fantasy world is bound to let it affect their parenting. And of course he would want me to not "bring the kids into it" because that little truth shines a light on some dark behavior.

For the record, I think both of you have contributed to this mess, but I get the feeling that you want to do better, act better, and BE a better person. On the other hand, I get the strong impression that he wants to discuss "emotional needs" so he won't have to get into fixing the ugly stuff. I believe it was MelodyLane who said "It's like rearranging the deck chairs while the Titanic sinks".

I truly hope that you will be ok, and I can't help worrying about those children. Surely they know something is amiss. Doesn't their mother suspect? You might want to clue her in to what they are exposed to, so she can choose to keep them protected. Did his lifestyle contribute to the breakup of his first marriage?

That's why I was trying to dig deeper into the swinging thing on his thread. This is a psychological issue, not just a relationship issue. I think that once he got the green light with you, bunny, he was like a kid in a candy store. I would bet moeny that it consumed him - this ability to get to have a wife and still get to screw other women, watch you with other women, whatever else went on (I don't want to know! - lalalalalala!)

I really just can't imagine any man getting that opportunity - I should say, any man who doesn't have moral compunction against swinging - and not having it consume his every thought. Just like any other forbidden addiction, that gives you a thrill over getting to do something you're not supposed to get to do, you will find yourself thinking about it nonstop, 100 times a day, figuring out how to work your whole life around it.

Just like cigarette smokers do nowadays, when they can't smoke in buildings - they find themselves thinking all day long about how they will get to get their next fix - that next cigarette. They make friends with other cigareete smokers, just so they can drive together to lunch and get to smoke in the car. It consumes them. Bunny, you said that he spent all his time on the computer, even when his kids were around (those poor kids! Bunny, I hope you were able to make them feel ok about themselves), all he wanted to do was be on that website with other swingers. It's an addiction, though he wouldn't admit it, as hard as I tried to get him to discuss it.

Honestly, I feel really stupid that I was supporting him without realizing the big purple elephant in the room. I just don't see the devastation in him; I still see the cover-up; the trying to protect his image and justify what he did and has been doing.

I wish you well, bunny. Stand strong.

I recognized early on that bunny's H showed classic symptoms of addiction so I was not surprised to find out that he is addicted to the swinging. I do understand his anger in light of that. The problem is that as long as he continues to be in denial about that, the problem will never be solved.

Bunny, are any of your myriad counselors even addressing this core issue with you?

I have contributed to this mess and I will admit that. I did not put my foot down and stick with my morals and feelings on it. And became a pushover because of it. I do want to do better and feel better about who I am.


Yes I feel he only wants to work on what he thinks is going to take care of what I was not getting just so the swinging can come back into the picture.


Yes I will be ok. I have a very good support system in place for myself.

As far as his kids go. I really do not want to get involved in that situation. I have pretty much stayed out of him and his ex.

As far as their breakup I was only told it was because she cheated. And would suspect that is why I have been accused if it several times including currently. I feel he has never gotten over it and learned truly how to trust.

My individual counselor does discuss it with me but as far as the marriage counselor it has yet to be discussed. He knows but he has not talked about it.

So..........you are going to marriage counseling but have not even discussing the core problem? I hope you are not paying money for this counseling?

That would be correct. No his work does an employee assistance thing.

That would be correct. No his work does an employee assistance thing. [/quote]

It seems you are getting your money's worth.

bunny, ezb asked me to ask you if you are still in the swinging lifestyle. I know you've already said no, but I told him I would ask you, so I am.

No I am not.

Just so you'll know, I think there's been a real shift on ezb's thread the last couple of days, after someone reminded us of the swinging. Honestly, I simply don't remember that being part of the equation, so I feel terrible that I wasted everyone's time with advice I wouldn't have given had I known. I'm glad that you chose to drop in and say your piece. I think that if you choose to give him another chance - and I am in now way suggesting that, just musing - that he has gotten a boatload of great advice in the last couple days that will/would go a long way toward helping him achieve a fresh outlook on life and your marriage.

I am sorry but I just do not see that. For example him saying that none of his time has been or will be spent on swinging when his kids are around. When actually he was spending the majority of his time on the computer doing the swinging stuff on kids weekends. We would have to wait on him to get off the computer before we could go anywhere. We would be sitting all ready to go and he would still be on the computer. So only recently he has not spent any time on the swinging with his kids there. And another example would be how he told me he would not even be on this website on kids weekends. He was just last weekend on here when it was a kids weekend.

I am also still being accused of things that are not happening and he is putting in the little jabs that he does to imply that I am doing things. As of yesterday I was accused of contacting someone in a town where I know no one. Just as he is checking the phone records and the profile website which to me tells me he is still checking up on me. Trying to control.

And how he told me he would no longer flirt with the neighbor but then a week or two later was right back to doing it. And when I said something to him about it he would say well your are flirting with the husband when I was not. Or how about how he got mad because I went for a girls night out with my friend twice but I find out he has been going out on a regular basis and flirting with the bartenders at the local watering hole. How is any of this really making any changes?

Well, I didn't say HE had changed. I said that his thread had changed. That the tone of advice he'd been getting had started shifting. I don't know if he'll stick around, since it's not quite as supportive as it was before. But I'm hopeful that he'll at least read what people are saying and ask himself the hard questions.

Can you give us some more information about his kids? I'm a little hyper sensitive when kids are involved, so I'm curious how they're taking everything.

I really can not tell you how his kids are taking this. I have not been around them but a couple times since I left and they had very little to say. That would be something you need to ask him.

Not that anyone will see or read this but it will make me feel better to clear this up.

Actually I separated from him because I was accused of cheating when I was not. That is what made me leave three months ago. That is also why I feel he has never gotten over his firt wife cheating and learned actually how to trust someone.

And yes he has been on the swinger websites also even though he has told everyone that he has not been active in it. But if I go out to do anything with my girl friend I am out man hunting even though he goes out on a regular basis. For all I know he could have had a date friday night since he went out.

I do see it as that way. I did not follow through with the divorce because of that belief and wanting to date others. I went through with it because he has yet to change or work on the control and manipulation. He just did it tuesday night to me again. He tries to create this fog where I question what happened and what I believe. He is very good at turning things around so that I do question it. And I feel he is still shifting the blame of things that happened off of himself. Just as he did by saying I still have pictures on my profile even though my profile is hidden. His is not. He also does it every day he contacts me with the back and forth emails and text. He works it to keep me engaged in it. He also tries to guilt me. Like the comment about his mental health was directed to pull at my heart strings I feel because he knows that I would do anything in the past to give him what he wanted. So the hurt would stop for myself even though I did not realize it was hurting me more.

Honestly, bunny, why don't you just go your own separate ways? You two are toxic for each other.

That is what is happening now. I told him tuesday I was done since he was being controlling and defensive again. I do not see the control and manipulation ever being something he works on figuring out why he does it and how he does it. And I see a lot of covering up on his part of things by trying to turn it around onto things I did (such as the email) instead of addressing the fact that he has been back on the swinger websites since that was the biggest reason this marriage fell apart and caused him to control. Yes I was never perfect. I did however make my marriage to him the number one priorty the whole time when he failed to work on it and be available for it.

Thank you for your response.


I hear you saying you didn't divorce so you could be single and not commit adultery. You did it to get him to stop blame-shifting, acting controlling, manipulative and to remove yourself from the fog he creates around you to question what really happened and what you choose to believe.

You do not block his emails on NC days. You don't choose to not take his calls on NC days. You choose to still have a hidden profile on the swingers website (forum?) though you now believe it was adultery. Now that you're divorced it won't be? Did you not remove it entirely because you are considering using it to hook up (I'm using the term from your email) or for NSA sex once you've made a clean break from ezb?

Am I understanding you correctly for all the above?

LA

That is correct.


I also do not answer his emails or text unless it is something important. No I do not block them.

Yes I may do that but have not decided to do anything with it at this time. Need time to think about what I want to do with my life once I rediscover who I am.