Actually, I find they come just as easily with intercourse as with masturbation. Maybe I am just lucky, or maybe it is because I know so well what movements, pressure spots, etc work for me.

The concept of "getting more" without orgasm...while I know the statistics (altho I think I've read 70% vs 80%, but no matter, same idea), I find that one a real head-shaker. Sure, even w/o orgasm you could be "getting more" emotionally, but that's only PART of the equation. I would find that verrrrry frustrating.

<small>[ September 06, 2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kam6318:
<strong>Actually, I find they come just as easily with intercourse as with masturbation. Maybe I am just lucky, or maybe it is because I know so well what movements, pressure spots, etc work for me.

The concept of "getting more" without orgasm...while I know the statistics (altho I think I've read 70% vs 80%, but no matter, same idea), I find that one a real head-shaker. Sure, even w/o orgasm you could be "getting more" emotionally, but that's only PART of the equation. I would find that verrrrry frustrating.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AGREED. I am very orgasmic, and would find it extremely frustrating to have intercourse to arousal, but no orgasm. But I masturbated when I was EIGHT (didn't have intercourse until 19) and have known for years just where, when, and how my body reacts. So I try to help my friends who DON'T have them get there. There is NOTHING like an orgasm with the one you love. NOTHING.

You've masturbated since you were EIGHT?! Most boys aren't even masterbating at 8!!
That's kinda...frightening.

It is frustrating to have sex without O'ing and since it has been going on for 3 years, I have tried to masturbate more since then. I came once, but I still can't get over how stupid it seems to me. It's much nicer to use a vibrator or whatever while I'm with my H. I like that MUCH better.

How did i find out about masturbating?

let's go back to about 6th grade.
seems like i always knew that boys did it and was it was a sin, but some of them couldn't really help themselves.
different story for girls....i just didn't even know they could.
i understood that guys got this hard-on when they were excited and if you played w/ it they had an orgasm.
girls...i THOUGHT everything was inside and it would just happen durring intercourse....or should. i felt like this all the way thru high school.
isn't it sad that we were never talked to about orgasms or the clitoris?

so, heres where i figured it out.
after an orgasm at 18 durring sex..or maybe it oral sex...
after that, i remember walking around feeling like i was on the "verge" and then i just figured it out from that feeling.

No, it is not "frightening" at all. Many kids of both sexes explore their bodies early.

I walked in on my brother playing with himself when I was about 9 and he 7. After that, I played with myself without ever directly touching myself or putting anything inside of my vagina. I thought touching myself was dirty and wrong, although never because of any religious influences. It wasn't until a boyfriend in high school convinced me to try and masturbate that I ever really touched myself. I don't masturbate often when alone, and hardly ever since I have a great sex partner. I basically use masturbation to better understand my body and learn what feels good so I can tell my guy what I like. I have only had an O a couple times without one of us manipulating my clitoris during intercourse. I would love to figure out how to orgasm more easily without manual stimulation.

Smile

I know kids, esp. little boys play around with themselves at a young age (even infancy) but I wouldn't call that "masturbation". When I think of actual masturbation, I think of fervently stimulating yourself to bring on an orgasm. I didn't think, nor do I really want to think that is possible in 8 years olds.

BP22,

I’ll admit that I was a bit skeptical when I saw the topic. . . and the topic starter! Seems all in good faith. I hope you’re doing well. Besides. . . (and you certainly know what MY orientation is!) I’ve wondered (though never at great length) the very same thing. Well, not so much whether or not it’s wrong, but whether or not Jesus ever did it. I tend to think that it’s not a “sin”. . .but it’s really not after all “mandatory” as part of human behavior – and so, supposing that it’s only a cultivation of needless carnal pleasure that may lead to fascination, I tend to think that Jesus never masturbated. . .but really don’t know.

Petals,

Masturbation was mentioned in the Bible, in Genesis chapter 37. A fellow named Onan did it and God was very displeased and so He killed him.
However, if you read the passage then it doesn’t answer the question about whether God was displeased because Onan masturbated or because he was avoiding a pregnancy. . . it doesn’t say that Onan had a “habit” of this, or anything of the sort. Onan’s masturbation had NOTHING to do with lust, or even carnal pleasure, but to not “give seed” unto his brother, as he’d been told by Judah to do.
. . . I suppose that God’s displeasure had to do with the practical side of that, in that Onan wasn’t willing to father a child by his brother’s wife. You see, it had to do with the fact that Tamar - - the wife in question was widowed, and I believe it had something to do with culture and law in those days, and the fact that Onan wasn’t willing to take her to wife, nor to have a child by her. (And widows in those days didn’t fare well, I guess)
. . . it’s a technicality I suppose then, to say that masturbation was mentioned in the Bible, because this was connected to deeper considerations. You are right (I think) otherwise, because as far as I know, masturbation as an activity in and of itself is never specifically mentioned in the Bible.

On the matter of what Jesus said, (about adultery):
Jesus never said that if you lust after a woman then you have committed adultery. Never.

The often misread, and misquoted passage is found in Matthew 5:28
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

There is a vastly prevalent tendency for (believers and unbelievers alike) to chop off the last four words of that verse, and those words are as important as the rest.

What we do in our hearts is a matter of imagination, and being done, if it is inappropriate, is sin. If we hate someone, then we might commit murder in our heart, and if we covet something, then we might commit burglary in our heart. So that we remain accountable for those things to, but there is a mighty difference between imagination and consummation.

Lust is a matter of imagination, adultery is its consummation. The two things are not the same thing, if if a man looks at a woman to lust after her he hasn’t committed adultery with her, he has committed lust.
. . . adultery is another matter, and a different sin. Neither is a good thing to be engaged in, but there is definitely a difference.

I don’t believe masturbation is a sin, but that there must be a level of fascination with it that becomes excess and inappropriate, after which it would be. Dunno, really though.

Hope everyone is well

Zuzus,
I am curious as to where the Bible says this? Could you please help?
(the Bible specifies at least 3 times a week).

MG......i thought the same thing. i think of masturbation the same as you...... to orgasm.
can 8 year olds do that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ilmf:
<strong>Masturbation was mentioned in the Bible, in Genesis chapter 37. A fellow named Onan did it and God was very displeased and so He killed him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you sure that was about masturbation? My interpretation is that it was more about withdrawing just before Onan ejaculated, thus spilling his seed rather than impregnating his brother’s wife. I guess it’s all about interpretation. In any event, it's clear to most scholars that the issue was that Onan didn't follow God's "command," and not that he spilled his seed.

QUOTE]Originally posted by ilmf:
<strong> On the matter of what Jesus said, (about adultery):
Jesus never said that if you lust after a woman then you have committed adultery. Never.

The often misread, and misquoted passage is found in Matthew 5:28
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

What we do in our hearts is a matter of imagination, and being done, if it is inappropriate, is sin. If we hate someone, then we might commit murder in our heart, and if we covet something, then we might commit burglary in our heart. So that we remain accountable for those things to, but there is a mighty difference between imagination and consummation.</strong>[/QUOTE]

That’s a very interesting way to think about it. It makes sense to me. While I do believe people are better off not hating others and thoughts of “I could just KILL him” aren’t good for a person, there’s a huge difference between thinking of killing a person and actually killing that person. It’s important to exercise control in all of our thoughts I suppose.

Similarly, seeing money that doesn't belong to thinking, and us "Hmmmmm, I might just take that" isn't the same thing as actually taking it. That kind of thought is more akin to temptation and not the actual deed. I would think that the Ten Commandments were meant to persuade us from doing the deed. While flirting with temptation in any scenario can be foolhardy, I personally see a huge gap between lust and adultery. If lust IS adultery, and thoughts of murder are the same as murder...well, I'm a murderer because I have had those thoughts about people on occasion. (Not serious thoughts, mind you. Just as when I have fantasies about a female friend I don't actually have serious thoughts about actually DOING those things with the friend.)

Anyway, it's all interesting.

<small>[ September 06, 2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: DevotedHusb ]</small>

ILMF,

You are absolutely right. I did remember him, but briefly and didn't relate it...somehow...to this discussion. And I certainly didn't remember his name. LOL. But, this man was a kinsman redeemer and his first born would be considered the child of his wife's late h. He didn't want to share his offspring with another.

He had vowed to marry this woman (I believe he might have been able to decline), but still refused to allow his offspring to honor another.

(Hmm...rereading, you already covered this.)

Wasn't he having intercourse with her, and when he was about to ejaculate, turned and did it on the ground? Was he married to her or not? If he was "with" her, then he was wrong if he had not or was not going to marry her.

What happens in the mind is NOT the same thing as what we do, however what we think can lead to actions.

BTW, you cut off those last few words, I didn't...at least, in my mind. It is adultery, of sorts, TO look at woman to lust after her. What's interesting there is that the man is intentionally look at her for the purpose of lusting. It wasn't accidental. Perhaps the first look was, but perhaps it was drawn out.

The Bible says that if you hate someone, you're a murderer. Did you physically kill that person? No, but perhaps your hating has led to a low self-esteem. It is murder of a sort.

Adgirl48,

I have tried to look it up and I can't find it. Perhaps it was a conclusion I came to after reading a set of verses, I don't know.

But, consider me wrong until I'm proven right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Incidentally, the Bible does say that a husband's body belongs to his wife and not himself and vice versa. What's that tell you? (That is in those verses I mentioned before. 1 Cor 7)

Petals

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Zuzus_Petals:
<strong>The Bible says that if you hate someone, you're a murderer. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, now you got ME curious about the passage you are referring. Can you tell me the chapter/verse please? I'm curious.

Thanks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DevotedHusb:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Zuzus_Petals:
<strong>The Bible says that if you hate someone, you're a murderer. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, now you got ME curious about the passage you are referring. Can you tell me the chapter/verse please? I'm curious.

Thanks!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nevermind. I looked it up.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:" (I John 3:15)

<small>[ September 06, 2003, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: DevotedHusb ]</small>

[/quote]You've masturbated since you were EIGHT?! Most boys aren't even masterbating at 8!!
That's kinda...frightening. [quote]

What's frightening is the alarming rate of women who don't know their bodies. I didn't get my rocks off daily like a 14 year old boy, but I DID discover the big O rubbing against the bed. And I will be honest enough to say it happened more than once.

What's "frightening" is that someone would abhor masturbation but partake in premarital sex.

What's "frightening" is the number of women so intimidated by their own bodies and the taboo that has been place upon sex, that even marriages between ministers of the gosple who preach the sin of divorce, are breaking up daily due to infidelity related to a simple lack of sex. THAT is what's frightening.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know kids, esp. little boys play around with themselves at a young age (even infancy) but I wouldn't call that "masturbation". When I think of actual masturbation, I think of fervently stimulating yourself to bring on an orgasm. I didn't think, nor do I really want to think that is possible in 8 years olds.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But MG....that IS masturbation. Sex isn't only sex when done fervently. It's sex regardless of HOW it's done. Likewise, masturbation is just that....stimulating one's genitals to arousal and/or orgasm. This is how the 'stigma' gets attached to it. It's not necessary to think it's possible. It IS possible and happens everyday! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Masturbation was mentioned in the Bible, in Genesis chapter 37. A fellow named Onan did it and God was very displeased and so He killed him.
However, if you read the passage then it doesn’t answer the question about whether God was displeased because Onan masturbated or because he was avoiding a pregnancy. . . it doesn’t say that Onan had a “habit” of this, or anything of the sort. Onan’s masturbation had NOTHING to do with lust, or even carnal pleasure, but to not “give seed” unto his brother, as he’d been told by Judah to do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Onan....did NOT masturbate. Onan was commanded by God to impregnate his brother's wife Tamar, in order for her to bear his dead brother's sons. Onan did not WANT to give her children because they would biologically be HIS, but would be considered his brother's. SO....Onan had sex with Tamar....he did NOT masturbate. He had SEX with Tamar, but at ejaculation...he withdrew, spilling the semen onto the ground. He was then killed by God for NOT obeying God's command to carry on his brother's seed, not for coitus interruptus....and definitely not an act he didnt do.....masturbation.

<small>[ September 06, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Seven63 ]</small>

DevotedHusb,

No. . . I am NOT sure that it was about masturbation (where God killed Onan). In fact, I am completely certain of the same thing that you suggested, that it had to do with him not following instructions. (I would have thought the rest of my paragraph on that would have made that pretty clear).
. . . so really, to be honest I suppose my reference to Onan was almost actually not relevant at all to the gist of this thread.
But. . . now that you’ve said what you have, you’ve really got me thinking. I always just sort of supposed that Onan must have whooped it off just outside the tent door, so that when he went to the lady that he could pretend not being able to get it up. Considering what you’ve written, I suppose that he could have done an “early withdrawal”. (I’m posting the verse, for the sake of convenience)
From Genesis 38
“And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother”.

Even though it was me that brought it up, it was only an idle tangent because it had nothing so much to do with lust or pleasure in this case, but instead more practical considerations. (Though I appreciate your thoughts on this, Devoted)

Petals,
I’ll derail the topic if I am not careful, and would rather not. You’re right, and it’s true that the Bible says that if you hate someone then you are a murderer. (Seen in 1 John 3:15). . . but be careful there. All scripture falls best to a literal and unadorned interpretation first. . . “what it says”.
To be a murderer is not the same as to consummate murder.
If a man hates his brother he has not committed murder.
The verse:
” Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
To lust may make one an adulterer, but even so, adultery has not been committed.
. . . only lust has been committed.
Adultery has not.

How purposeful is my contention on that? It’s pointless, really – because whether its “to do” or “to be” comes to naught after all, because of the second half of the verse. (that no murderer has eternal life abiding inside them).

It seems like a parallel might be drawn between that, and the lust issue. . . but I never assume things (when it comes to stuffs from the Bible).

And Petals. . . you ARE RIGHT about whose body it is!!! Hey, get up with my wife when you get the chance. . . maybe she just needs to hear it from another gal.

I shouldn’t have ever mentioned the thing about Onan. It was never to do with masturbation certainly in the context of this discussion anyway. (But I can’t for the life of me decide now whether he did an early withdrawal, or just whooped it, now thanks to you Devoted. . . )

Hope you’re all well

Seven63,

I think. . . I’ve a new perspective on what may have happened between Onan and Tamar that day – thanks to Devoted, and to you.

But be careful with sureties.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Seven63:
<strong>Onan....did NOT masturbate. Onan was commanded by God to impregnate his brother's wife Tamar, in order for her to bear his dead brother's sons.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Onan was commanded by Judah.

Genesis 38:8
” And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.”

Not God.

But I never should have brought Onan’s case up to begin with, because even in my own post about it, I wrote some bit about the fact that it was his failed commitment that displeased God. . . something to do with practical things, and not lust or bad habits.

[/quote]You've masturbated since you were EIGHT?! Most boys aren't even masterbating at 8!!
That's kinda...frightening. [quote]

What's frightening is the alarming rate of women who don't know their bodies. I didn't get my rocks off daily like a 14 year old boy, but I DID discover the big O rubbing against the bed. And I will be honest enough to say it happened more than once.


What's frightening to me about this is that some people can take this information and say, "All children are sexual creatures."

Well, we are all sexual creatures, but that doesn't mean that we are ready for sex.

I was molested at 5 yo. It (oral) felt okay (I was not terrified as some are), but it didn't feel anything like what sex with my H does to me now. I didn't "get hard" and there was no chance of orgasm.

It felt more like a genital massage.

Genital massage, which is what I think many younger kids do, is different from masturbation. Masturbation has its own intended purpose.

This isn't to say that Seven didn't masturbate or get the sexual sensations. What I am saying is that not a whole lot of children experiment in this way at such a young age.

Some girls start their periods around that age. That doesn't mean they're ready to have children (emotionally, etc).

Hence, I don't think that if a girl (or boy) starts masturbating at that age, that means they're ready for another partner, or to be taken advantage of by someone else.

(Seven, I know you're not advocating that, but I'm saying some might misconstrue your comments to mean that those things are okay.)

Petals

<small>[ September 06, 2003, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Zuzus_Petals ]</small>