CN,

thanks for sharing. i'm tired and i need to get out of the office.

if i start to think about this stuff again, i'll just get sad. i need to take a break. i'm bringing home a late lunch for DD and I to share. she is waiting for me so i have to go.

one question... do you and your wife spend much time together. are there things you would like to do with her that she just won't do or do neither of you even try to do things with each other anymore?

OH FL,

I didn't mean to bring you down. I think I posted to you because I just wanted you to know that another FWS is still in the marriage and is also struggling after all these years.

No, we do not spend much alone time together. Our conversations revolve around the kids and finances mostly.

We do try to get out on a date once a month or so. Getting a sitter is sometimes hard.

I don't know if the reason is that we don't enjoy the same things or we don't enjoy each other's company. Sometimes sitting across the table from each other is awkward as we just don't know what to say. I have this idea that it would be great to see a show and have dinner with her, but when it happens it just isn't . . . how do I describe this . . . I guess I would have rathered just stayed home and read a book.


Will your H train with you for the T? I think that would be a great time for you two to bond. And you wouldn't have to worry running or riding by yourself. My W and I used to run together, but we can't do that now as we would have to get a sitter.

Please don't feel that you have to answer me. And please don't do it if it makes you sad. I think we all have had enough sadness for one life. I hope things get better for you. I really do.

CN

FL & CN

Squid and I talk a lot; Squid talks about our experience and R more than I do lately.

I wanted to write something that I have realised that may help ( or not).

Squid no longer feels disappointed in herself if I manifest consequences of the A. Previously she set herself a standard that she would only permit herself to be happy if I carried zero negative consequence of her affair. Unspoken deal, but real nonetheless.

She does not see me upset or respond to a trigger and feel disappointed , anticipating the day when I will no longer trigger in ways show my hut and remind HER of her contribution to this situation; expecting to be able to forgive herself only THEN.

Instead she looks at the day, week or project that we are in and if it is happy, she appreciates it. If it is sad she looks if there are any actions she could take to remove the sadness. If not she accepts it. After 4 years of emotional self-mutilation in response to this that achieved NOTHING, she appreciates me letting her off the responsibility to feel the need to do this.

We discussed and realised life was ALWAYS a combination happy and sad: sweet and sour, and the main difference now is that Squid was culpable for a bunch of the sour in our life lately.
In the past its been loved ones dying, financial troubles etc etc that was nobody's "fault".

Surfing the waves, both the fun ones fun and the scary ones as they roll in seems to be working for us. I do not require Squid to be Stepford-porn-queen any more in order for me to feel compensated for her affair. There IS no compensation possible. I am no longer disappointed that she has not met her side of the bargain that I subconsciously set her, but that she never agreed to.

She no longer requires me to live in a state of amphetamined happiness in order for her to forgive herself for her affair. She doesn't receive my manifesting consequences of her affair as an affront any more.

We were both awaiting impossible statuses to come to pass in order to permit ourselves to enjoy the good parts of our life.

We both only require that we love each other and show it in ways that work.

Our relationship is getting better and we have had the longest period of sustained happiness since d-day in the last 2 months, and this after we gave up needing Nirvana before permitting ourselves to be happy.

We explained to each other very nakedly how we felt. I was taken aback to realise how Squid felt deep inside.

This is a departure for us, but it does seem to be working for us.

Its not REALLY acceptance, as we have hopes of yet more improvement, but I think it is a recognition of each others limitations in ability to be the source of the others happiness.

Of each others humanity.

That make any sense ?

Well said Bob and congratulations. We still have a couple of hills to climb to get where you two are, but I have hopes.

Larry

CN,

no worries, your posts are NOT bringing me down. I appreciate your sharing. you sound like you are out of steam too. They say the best way to feel love towards someone is to do loving things for them. I agree and yet i still feel too out of steam right now. best thing i can do i think is to be quiet and let some more time pass. having to say good bye to DD is going to be hard, setting down the marriage concerns for a while may be what i need more than anything. if DH picks up the slack some and initiates some activities for us, i won't turn him down, but other than that i'm just going to lay low.

so i did find a tri-athlon that is occuring here in Aug. Today i went for a 12+mile ride and then I parked the bike and ran a bit. I 100% ran for 1/2 mile and then mostly walked the 1/2 mile back. Its a start. I have to figure out where I can swim to see what distance I could handle.

This event seems kinda short to me, only 400m swim, 12 mile ride and 3 mile run. I know the bike ride will be fine, the 3 mile run may not actually be a run, I'm guessing i would end up walking some (does that count?). 400m is about .25mile, that does not seem so bad.

the women's only triathlon that just occured was a bit longer, 750m swim, about 14mile ride and then a 5k run. but that wont happen again till next summer and i'm really liking the idea of doing something this summer. so i could always do the longer, women only one next year.

DH is not a swimmer or a runner (bad feet), so training together is not an option, but he says he will ride (short distance) around the neighborhood with me sometime, just for fun.

Actually I found a ride that he is interested, it goes thur an older neighborhood that has many Frank Lloyd Wright houses and you stop and tour each house. He says he will do that with me too. That will be fun.

anyway, weather is beautiful today, i hope the same is true by you. DH and I are going to play raquetball shortly. that is always fun.

i do encourage you to try to find something fun for you and your wife to do. i know you have to deal with sitters still, we are past that need and that helps (our kids are 14 and 18). what ages are your kids?

Bob,

great stuff, thank you very much for taking the time to write all that. i've read it over multiple times. it all makes so much sense intellectually, putting into practice is the hard part. but reading, re-reading, is very good for me and helpful (just like what you wrote on my last thread regarding self-forgiveness).

thanks.

Hi Larry, hope is very good to have. all the best!

You know what FL, this advance didn't come about intellectually. For ONCE...

We'd both put force-fields of self care around ourselves. I had become self-actualised ,no longer NEEDED Squid and thought that while I was sorry if Squid didn't like the consequences of her A that was tough.

SHE thought that every mention of the A or manifestation of hurt in me was a use of her past sin to beat her into submission and compliance and that I was making a bit much more fuss than I should so long after d-day. And that nothing she could do would make much difference anyway because she was lower than whale crap.

We got so low that we poured our true feelings into a note each.

I won't write the intimate details of what we exchanged, it kills me that certain folks on here already know too much about me - but suffice it to say I never realised how existentially Squid was hurting and self-hating , and she never realised that I am forever changed as a result of my experiences. FOREVER.

We were both insecure, basically.

So we talked it over and we changed it.

for what it's worth.... i am very thankful that you have shared as much as you have throughout the years.

maybe the difference is that i don't think DH has gotten to any sort of low to the point that he is motivated to really let down what ever guards he has up. i think he got to that point many years ago when he worked so hard to pull me back into the marriage and maybe he just doesn't have more in him.

CN, how you doing?

FL,

I'm doing fine. We finally got a break in the heat here and I've been enjoying it. I'm running again and doing some decent distance . . . 10 miles for my longer runs and 5 for my sorter. It feels so good to run again. I had to stop for a long time due to injury. I am beginning to feel much better. I am one of those people that really needs to exercise.

About the marriage. Well, like you, I'm just going to let it alone. I can't do a lot about it and like I said I'm not leaving anytime soon. It is kind of like a sore spot that you just keep rubbing . . . you know you are just irritating it but you can't seem to leave it alone.

My marriage is a lonely place for me, but my family life is full. Perhaps I am just too needy. I would like to spend time with my wife when the kids are in bed (we retreat and do our own things mostly). I would like to have SF and feel that my W is there and actively participating and enjoying it. I would like to laugh with her again. It just seems really strained. Perhaps we are just too tired these days.

About your training . . . see if your H will slowly ride his bike as you run. He can carry water for you. And keep you company. There is absolutely nothing wrong with jogging for a while and then walking. Keep doing that and just increase the running part and decrease the walking.

Also, make sure you have some good running shoes. Go to a local small running shop, not the mall, and have them fit you. They will give you the correct shoe for your body frame and for the distances that you are going to train. Tell them what you are up to and they can really help.

I can't help with the swimming. I can swim, but I've never trained for a triathelon.

CN

oh I forgot to mention.... last night i rode to the zoo and back again (12+ miles) and afterwords i ran for the entire mile. I do believe I can do this.

now here is the sick part.... the more i start to figure I can do this, the stronger my insides are saying to me... heck, if you can do this, then it must not be any big deal.

why do i do that to myself? and why do i believe myself when i do that? it's stupid but i believe it anyway.

morning is still young here, i'm going to do some yardwork on the part of the yard that is normally horribly hot in the afternoon but very comfortably shaded right now.

forgot to mention...

he just would not do that, would see absolutely no reason that I can not do this on my own. and i'm ok with that. the run is not that long anyway. i suppose if i were training for an actual marothon where i was needed to run many more miles, that might be a different story. i have done 5K runs before, i think the last one was 2 yrs ago but still, 5K is not that much.

we did however have fun playing raquetball the other day. I even beat him. hours before playing i had taken a long ride and ran the 1/2 mile, oddly instead of being insanely tired, i played better than normal.

honestly, he could beat me if he really played his best, he could hit way more kill shots then he does, but he plays to my level (or just bearly above it, which is a good thing) and sometimes I can sneak in win.