kind of agree with medc here.

Unless you are willing to pull up stakes and move to Tx where your wife is located (and living a single life) then what is the point of being married? I dont get this part. I can understand the job situation in Mich, but down here the unemployment rate is low for high skill sets. our company alone has to hire hundreds of Indians and Chinese engineers to fill up vacant positions.

Not sure how and when to confront. I dont have all the data to judge the situation - no one here does. But on the other hand - living 1500 miles and not doing anything - outcome is a no brainer.

If you want to remain married to your WW then you need to be down there.

In his thread he stated that he and his WW agreed to move to TX, they were both looking for jobs, his WW found one first, and he is in the process of trying to find one himself (he makes more than 2X his WW), and he needs to sell the house.

Gosh Mel, I SO WISH I would have known this BEFORE MB went down......


not2fun

BH. . .

Well, you have a difficult situation and many decisions to make over time, yet some of those choices you have need making right away. Your wife is he;; bent on putting horns on your head and you want to stop it. I understand.

One important factor you need to consider is the simple fact that right now you are living in your own FOG, with an altered mental state because of the emotions involved. See, not just the WS lives in a FOG, so does the BS. If you think about it a minute, you can quickly see that it is hard to think when the bullets are flying your way.

Something I suggest you think about; what outcome do you want, AND WHY. I say "And why" for a reason. You know your wife better than anyone on this forum. She is what, 36? And she is about to boff a guy in his twenties, right? So why is she making that choice? Is it love or lust? Since there is no honor in what she is doing, how about the rest of her life? Is she otherwise an honorable person?

Leave us say that you succeed in stopping this one. Do you really think she will sign on to a marriage building program? What is your risk of a repeat? How soon really, can you be with her daily? Frankly, without that key ingredient, you are unlikely to make chicken soup out of the chicken stuff that is pouring on your head right now.

So why do you want to save your marriage? Why do you want to save her from HERSELF? Why do you love her? What did she do for you or you for her that made her unique? Is she THAT good looking? Is she the best you can do?

Ok, you have made an emotional investment in her. How much? Is your marriage to her worth all the drama? What is in it for you? I do understand that you made a vow. Do keep in mind that you now have the choice to either honor the vow or walk away from it; adultery is the recognized and accepted grounds that release you.

Some have suggested divorce. Yea, that is an option. Others suggest various ways you can build a marriage with her. Ok, that too is an option. So what makes you certain that she will join with you to build a great marriage? What comments has she made that lead you to believe that having a great marriage is her focus?

Try to clear your own head a bit then take a deep breath and go forth with some feel for what is in it for you. Until you can answer the simple question; "Why are you tring to save this marriage," with an honest answer, you are going to flounder around like a fish out of water.

All the best.

Larry

Sorry, but what's your source for this information? What I have I done illegally? What difference does it make if she lives with me or not? Can you reference any legislation? Is this a "Federal" crime as she now lives in another state? What if the computer that stores her e-mail isn't in another state?

I guessed her new password. I got lucky on the first attempt even. The new password was hardly creative (she used our dogs' names)

To Larry,

I will take your post to heart this weekend. I just had a few beers, and I'm wondering deep down if this is worth fighting for. Maybe I'm fighting more for how I wish our marriage were, rather than how it actually is, or how it will actually be.

Given her past history (she slept with a married man when she was younger - so she has been a part of an adulterous relationship before), she may not be worth fighting for. I still feel like I need to do something for this marriage - or I will always kick myself for not trying.

I almost feel like I need to give her an ultimatum.... Him, or me. There is a lot of fighting, struggling, learning, and coping either way. I am still young and can afford to cut my losses at this point. A lifetime of counseling and therapy is not in my cards... I can take some (and know I need some), but not sure how much.

The sad reality is that I'm positive OM is just looking for some tail next weekend... Once he gets his fix, I really doubt he's going to continue to pursue the relationship. I won't stand for that, and she will be on her @$$ losing two people that she cared about at the same time, while OM and myself move on to something better in our lives.

She has abandoned me, and our dogs... What kind of person abandons their dogs? I can understand abandoning people... But, how can you abandon a dog, something that loves you as unconditionally as a dog does, should never be abandoned... Crazy as it sounds... this is the one thing that is bothering me the most right now.

I think I give her one chance. I get on the plane, meet them both at the destination, and let her decide her own fate... I explained to her earlier. I read a quote (that I can't remember the correct wording) that said "Your destiny does not come from chance, but rather by choice." This morning, I asked her what choices she is making to write her own destiny.

I need to determine my destiny, and decide what choices I need to make.

Let me tell you what drove now-FWH absolutely NUTS when he tried to find out how I knew everything I knew.

"I'm not going to tell you how I found out." And 70 bajillion other variations on the same theme. I never lied to him as to where it came from, nor did I ever tell him till the A was over.

Yes, think carefully about whether you want to be married to a person whose character permits them to cheat.

The Harleys say that if the marriage is short and there are no children, sometimes it is best to divorce. Frank Pittman says that 60% of infidelity occurs early in the marriage, so if the marriage is otherwise good, give it a go.

Is this your and your wife's first marriage?

Have you ever told him I have pages and pages of hard copies of their salacious text messages via Nextel? Is that still a secret? Or did you just forget about them yourself?

You are committing a felony by intercepting these communications. If you want a reference...Google it. My experience is my source....I was a police officer. IF you lived in the same house AND shared a computer, the expectation of privacy is not as high. Your actions are criminal on several fronts...first off you are intercepting communications not intended for you...CRIME. Next, you have literally broken into her email account and EACH TIME you do that, it is a separate crime. Your actions are also stalking...sad but true. Your wife has the RIGHT to secrecy and privacy since she is no longer living with you. You are seriously in violation of about a half dozen laws that are pretty consistent across the US (and Canada).

Quite honestly, unless you live under a rock I am shocked at your response to my post. My 12 year old knows it is illegal to break into someones email account. Wow...you GUESSED her passcode. Well, I guess that makes it okay...DO YOU HEAR HOW CHILDISH THAT SOUNDS?

It is not a federal crime because it is state to state...although that could be another offense. It is a federal crime (and really...why bother ...it is a felony either way) because it is in violation of applicable laws.

Do a search for Cyber Stalking, felony email intercept, email laws.

I am sorry for what you are going through. But really...your actions reflect some issues with you at this point that should be addressed.

I only ask, because you are the first person to mention this...

Here is something I found on "cyberstalking":


It seems as though the key words are "harassing", "threatening", of which, I am doing neither.

It's my understanding, that if you intercept a message (i.e. use encryption methods while the message is in transit from one person to the other) that this is indeed a crime.

I have searched for about an hour looking for a definite answer to your claim, but have found nothing.

If you have any direct links, I'd be more than happy to read them.

BH75,

I do believe what MEDC is telling you is true.

If I'm not mistaked, a California court just convicted a BH for doing the very same thing to his WW after he hacked into her email looking for proof of the A. Not saying I agree with this, but my opinion does not count.

Medc is trying to do you a favor and warn you of the potential consequences of your actions. Do not take this in a hostile manner, but rather, heed the warning.

All Blessings,
Jerry

bh:

Once again, now that you have your proof (which you acquired for YOU, not 2 prove what she already knows 2 be true), you really don't need 2 snoop further.

Unless you're planning on scheming and choreographing dramatic confrontations indefinitely, that is.

You know she's having an affair.

Expose 2 the people who can support the M and encourage her 2 end the affair.

Do this before the trip to TX.

If the OM still goes down there, and she escalates the A 2 a PA over the weekend with this OM (assuming she hasn't already), let them have one another.

Let her go, and free yourself in the process.

-ol' 2long

I think there is some discussion about this subject in the spying 101 thread.

In Michigan, he's about as likely to get in trouble for it as she is to get prosecuted for adultery (which is still a felony here).

There could be technical violations of the law here but it is my understanding that this email account he has gotten into is and always was a marital JOINT email account and she shared her passwords and accounts with him over their entire 6 year relationship.

His access was consentual...though we all know she wouldn't like it now, she COULD have changed passwords to an UNKNOWN password if she really didn't want him in there any longer.

It's all arguable but the best defense is too just not get caught in there and don't ever admit or state again to anyone that you were "HACKING" into HER account. Instead say..."our account".

Don't spend too much time researching this Sun...if you were in certain states and had custody matters to be concerned with, then maybe. But this is a non-issue for you. A simple be careful what you do, how you do it and especially, how you reveal it to protect yourself.

Mr. Wondering

There have been some concerns about the safety of BH75, should he confront OM face-to-face.

Speaking as a BH, I can honestly say that most of us (BHs) would gladly take that chance.

When I was facing down the OM in my living room, I wouldn't have cared if I KNEW he was a 10th degree black belt. I wouldn't have backed off one inch. I'd have taken the beating, then shot him later. NO BETRAYED HUSBAND SHOULD EVER BACK DOWN FROM AN OM FOR FEAR OF A PHYSICAL ALTERCATION. I feel awful, 2 years after the fact, for not attacking OM first. I can't imagine the humiliation of backing down due to threats from OM, too. I couldn't live with myself.

In my situation, he couldn't get out fast enough as I screamed at him about ending his life if I ever saw him again. OM's are mostly cowards, just like the classic playground bullies we all knew in grade school.


I have revised my plan for you, BH75. Congratulations.

On the 1st or 2nd page, I was all for getting on the plane and sitting next to him. Not any more.


Dealing with your wife:

What you need to do is move in with your wife. Not move to the same city as your wife, not visit her and make plans to return later. You need to move in with her. There is no debtor's prison, and no credit score is permanent. Disregard the financial responsibilities and MOVE! You might have paychecks garnished, you might lose a car, etc., but if you REALLY want to save the M, that stuff doesn't matter. It can all be replaced eventually. If I had to move out of state, my W and kids would be with me from day one if we had to SLEEP IN THE FRIGGIN CAR!! You have no kids. At this point, there is no excuse for being apart, except that that's how she wants it, and you've accepted it. The roommate is also a non-factor. Either she or your W can get the h3ll out. Now.

The trip you take should be one-way, only coming back for your stuff when your W is willing to come with you to get it.

If your W gives reasons why you just can't move in with her, you need to give her an ultimatum. You either start living like a married couple as of the day your plane arrives, or you file for D even sooner. Period. I'm not talking about bluffing. If she gives you the runaround, file for divorce.

If you do move in, you need to enforce NC. She needs to be transparent and honest. You are to have access to her cellphone. She needs to allow you to install spyware on any computers she owns. You need to stop being her b!tch and put your foot down.

From what I've read, I don't believe your W is in any "fog". She's not giddy, head-over-heels for OM...she just wants to have sex with a new guy. DO NOT be surprised if this is not her first one, either.

You've said he'll probably vanish when he gets what he wants. I think your W knows this, too. As a matter of fact, that's probably exactly what she's counting on. Everyone knows that long-distance relationships don't work, and there are a LOT of people out there, men and women, who like screwing virtual strangers, or even completely anonymous sex...one-night stands, etc. Even if they have to buy a plane ticket to get it.

Definitely try to make her make a decision before you deal with OM.


Dealing with OM:

I've really given this one some thought. I didn't want to present some Schwarzenegger-like plan of action that would probably never work in the real world. My 1st idea would be terrific, but in reality someone would get arrested, or you'd sit in silence the entire time.

I've tried to imagine what I would do. My policy when it comes to being a BH is "If it's legal, it's fine, and if you can get away with it, it's fine, anyway".

You want to be very careful about doing or saying anything confrontational at an airport. One pussified shout from OM, and they'll detain you long enough to miss your flight, while OM goes free to get his little pee-pee wet.

What I think I would do, if I were in your shoes, is to call OM NOW and tell him that if he gets on that plane, I'd f_cking bury him. I'd go ahead and expose to anyone and everyone RIGHT NOW. His boss, co-workers, friends, neighbors, classmates, fellow churchgoers, Myspace friends...every human being he interacts with, if possible. Distribute flyers. Mail letters to all of his neighbors, with copies of your evidence enclosed. He and your W want to portray you as a crazy, jealous husband? Fine. Be one. I believe OM was single in your case, so exposure probably wouldn't help save your M. The bottom line is that the little ba$[censored] deserves to be punished, and you can at least humiliate him while spending very little time, money, or energy.

It doesn't follow MB principals, but that is honestly what I would do. I already have, although I didn't have a chance to do it before d-day.

Yeah, he'll call your W and try to make other arrangements, but it won't matter since you'll already be living with her with NC in place, or filing for divorce, hopefully.

If your W agrees to allow you to move in with her, tell OM so. Me? **edit**

I'm not trying to be a comedian. I'm putting myself in your shoes as best I can, and telling you how I'd react. It doesn't look like there's much of a marriage to save, but I understand the desire to try. You should really think long and hard about cutting your losses now, because odds are that she will end up breaking your heart later, and the longer you've been together, the more it hurts. Mix in a mortage and a child or two and you've got a personal catastrophe on your hands.

In the end, this is a free country and your W will do what she wants. If she chooses OM, make sure she's the most costly piece of tail he'll ever have.

Krazy:

As Mr. Spock might say: "Colloquially expressed, but essentially correct."

I think your suggestion of bh moving in with his own wife is a very good one. His response 2 the suggestion will say a lot about his investment in this marriage and his willingness 2 save it at whatever cost.

In the case of your W's FOM, though, you didn't have a choice regarding confrontation, since he was in your home. It's good you didn't kill him, but I would have unders2d if you had (fat lot of good that would have done you, though, as I don't get 2 make law).

In Bh's case, confronting the OM is entirely elective. I don't dispute that intimidating him might drive him away, but if bh is living with his W and she has agreed 2 his terms for something like hardcore MB recovery, then OM won't be a factor 2 worry about - simply exposing 2 his parents (he's just a kid, after all) and family might make him think 2wice before interfering in someone else's marriage.

BH: What lengths are you willing 2 go 2 in order 2 save this marriage? If this were me (it's not), I would think a bit about just how invested I am in this broken marriage. Then, I'd either do what Krazy suggests and move in with her, or I'd see a lawyer sooner than quicker and get my finances separated, so no further damage can be done if your W doesn't jump on board post haste. But it's not me.

What would you do?

-ol' 2long

Dr. Willard Harley says:


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Confronting my ex-WS and OW helped me. Affairs are crazy-making. We still divorced, but after all the lies and omissions it was good to know my instincts weren't crazy.

In your case, I'm not so sure it's necessary...you've read their exchanges. Any way to confront OM now, and take an earlier flight?

I am still questioning how far I am willing to go on this...

I spent most of today reading parts of His Needs/Her Needs. I also sent my wife a copy, and she received it today. She said she will read it if/when she is ready. I hope she starts reading soon.

One of both of our greatest needs right now is financial support. She is weighing the consequences of taking money from her 401(k) account. She (at least it's her story) tells me that she will not have a "full" paycheck until the middle of July. She is opening her own cell phone account, but can't open it until Monday. Her reason for opening her own cell account is so that I can no longer
"police" her phone calls. She has told me (and I'm not sure it's true), that she can't open a new account until I take over our current account as it is in her name. I told her once the current billing cycle was complete, that I would gladly take over the account. But, I am not paying for overage charges, especially those for calls to the OM (who is outside our network). She was quite upset, and tried to blame me for the undue financial stress she will incur once she opens a new account. I told her it was her choice to open a new account. (These are the things she rarely understands - it's always my fault).

Anyway, because she is afraid of overage charges, she and the OM are not speaking this weekend (until she gets her new phone). I learned this through her e-mail (yes, I am still monitoring it, but she doesn't have access at her house right now, and had to go to Starbucks to read it - she called me to ask how to log in from Starbucks, so I had to tell her, and knew she was online at the time). She wrote a letter to OM explaining that she will probably go into withdrawals not talking to him all weekend (interesting comment on her part I thought). OM wrote back and told her to get the phone on Monday morning, and send him a picture that will keep him occupied all day (so I'm sure inappropriate pictures are going back and forth).

Anyway, my plan, as it stands is to send out a letter package including the letter below, and records of their phone calls and texting on Monday. I am sending a letter to the OM's parents. I am also planning on calling WW's best friend. I'm not sure that WW's aunt is emotionally stable enough right now to talk with WW (as she is caring for WW's mother, who had an emotional breakdown). But, I will consider making a phone call to her as well. I will also call OM on Monday - I will use spoof card to make it appear as though I'm calling from WW's phone - either her current number, or her new number if I can obtain it (she will likely send out an e-mail to friends/family once she gets it).

Here is the letter that I am sending to OM's parents... I will call WW's BF and Aunt and explain the situation to them directly.


Should I add/remove anything from this letter?

After Tuesday, OM has to decide whether this trip is worth it or not. If he shows up at the airport, I talk to him then as well, and I will encourage him not to get on the plane, probably remotely, on the phone. If he gets on the plane, and meets my wife, my wife will be given an ultimatum. She either chooses to spend the weekend with me and end contact with OM, and we begin working on our marriage. Or it will be over, forever.

This to me, justifies my duties as a husband. I feel I at least need to try and get her to think about what she's doing... But, since I'm young, and she's messed up, I'm not sure I'm willing to go any further than that if she decides she needs her fix of OM that much. I'm willing to forgive her for anything in the past, but not anything that may happen in the future.

Yes, delete the part about the calls and texts. I think I would also leave out the separation and details explaining that. Simply saying that you are moving to be with her, and fighting for you marriage should be enough. Too much detail in the personal areas should be avoided, generally.

And as to your sources, just tell them that the affair has been going on for a while now, and that on July 3 he is flying down to continue it on a more personal level.

That gives them info they can verify, since they probably already know about the trip, and will not give away your sources.

Naming WW as 36 is also good, because if they ask him about it he will not likely relish the idea of having been lied to about something so basic as age.

I'm not sure how I feel about revealing that I know he's flying down there... I'd almost rather have them keep thinking that all I know is that they've been talking/texting on the phone.

I think OM needs that last bit of info (that I know about the flight) revealed on the day we leave... I need to keep the part about where she is in TX, and I'm sure OM Parents can put 2+2 together...

Otherwise, I'm likely going to end up out $450 on a flight, down there by myself, and searching a huge city in Texas for my wife to talk to her and give her the ultimatum.... Doing it over the phone isn't going to work, she likely won't answer as she'll be "camping".

My own need is there too, to see her at least one last time as my wife. Stupid? Maybe but I need that closure, and need to see the look on her face. Maybe I take a picture of the encounter, so there's proof he/she were both there should it be needed in the future.

Tentative plan should she bail with OM, I get on the first flight to AZ where I can spend some time with friends and family.... Perhaps talk to her dad and let them know how much I enjoyed being a part of his family. (He was always very cordial to me, and said I was just like the son he never had)

Obviously if it is a joint email account, there is NO issue. BUT, why would he have to break into a jointly owned account??? He was NOT given the password...it was guessed at. That does not spell consensual access. The password was unknown to him by his own admission. The BEST defense Mr. W is not breaking the law in the first place and he is obviously doing that. What you are suggesting is the he continue to break the law...but to be smart about it...to not get caught.

As far as stalking....he is stalking her. I believe she has asked him to discontinue certain behaviors...he has not. If he uses means to follow, check up on, harass her...he is stalking her.


PA stalking law...I don't know your state


http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=crime&cdn=newsissues&tm=9&gps=7_766_1916_1014&f=20&su=p504.1.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx%3FdbID%3DDB_Pennsylvania206

NC law on emails, etc. Seems very similar to other.

http://www.fis.ncsu.edu/appendices/AppendixB.htm

I have read about a lot of people being prosecuted for what you are doing. We actually have a high profile case going on right now here in PA.

The applicable FEDERAL law that you would be in violation of is the Electronic Privacy Act (1986).

It took me all of two minutes to find this..