Didn't WW speak to OM about your planning on coming down to visit her this weekend?

Didn't she speak to him about using another e-mail account b/c she wanted to becareful legally?

My guess is he was lying to you about not knowing. What he told you was probably word for word what he told his parents.

"Gee, I didn't know she was M."

not at all FH...you seem to be interested in my point of view a lot more than I am yours.

Wow, you're right marshmallow, Good Catch!!!!

Yes, it is my opinion that Dr. H has it wrong in this case too.

You see, MEDC, I place a much higher regard on what God has to say than what any "man" has to say.

Now, if you want to "reduce" the advice to a couple who does not have Christ in their lives, you'd find me in much greater agreement.




Then I have to ask you, MEDC, what exactly are you doing on a site that is DEDICATED to SAVING marriages that have suffered from infidelity, and not only saving them, but growing them into stronger, better, marriages than what they had "pre-affair?"




And THAT, MEDC, is precisely my point. You DON'T know. Your "reality" is just an opinion, and it posits a "hopeless," "cancerous spouse," "nothing but heartache" future for ANY Betrayed Spouse who "dares" to love and "dares" to attempt to, let alone actually does, recover their marriage following infidelity.

I, and I would suspect several BS's and WS's who HAVE recovered their marriages would disagree with your opinion, let alone your assertion that it is "Reality."

bh:

While it might be true that the OM has gotten the proverbial "cold feet" about continuing with your W, I don't think this spells a major 2rning point in your marriage.

What WOULD, would be a call from your W inviting you down, or offering 2 come up herself, 2 have a frank and earnest discussion about how 2 move forward.

...but she changed her email passwords so she could continue being secretive.

If you're still planning 2 go visit her this weekend, you'll have a chance 2 verify for yourself whether the OM intends 2 stay away or not. So you don't need 2 reply 2 him. Just don't take his word for what he said.

Recovery will still require your W take extraordinary steps 2 convince you that she wants 2 save her marriage.

I hope she's up 2 it, but it still doesn't look good.

-ol' 2long

Maybe I'm confusing posts now...but didn't some of the texts or emails you read make mention of her complaints about you to OM?

One more thing:

Didn't you tell us that the emails between them make it clear that they sometimes talked about YOU?

If so, the OM is clearly lying.

But even if not, the purpose of your exposure was 2 put pressure on him 2 leave your W alone. Maybe he'll do that even if he's lied 2 you about it. He might just be trying 2 put an innocent face on it for his family.

-ol' 2long

FH, based on what I know of quite a few recovered marriages here...and my friendships with those posters...it isn't my views (or sanity) that are frequently called into question.

And just because I may see certain situations as hopeless...that does not mean that all of them are. There is many a marriage here that can and should be saved IMHO.

And with that...I will bow out of discussing this with you as your view of my posts are not a concern to me.

bh:

Another thought. If he did lie 2 you about not knowing, and he did that 2 make his family believe he was unaware when he wasn't...

Reply 2 him AND his parents that you know that he's not being truthful, and cite the email exchange about you (without quoting them verbatim).

Keep the pressure on 2 keep him away. Also, 2 make cheating with someone else's wife a lot less fun (due 2 pressure from his family).

-ol' 2long

Yes, and I, and I would suspect several other BS's who have strived, sacrificed, spent both time and money, had "recovery" (but it was EXACTLY what Dr. Harley and Dr. Lemonman and MEDC have stated) would say that THEIR experience is "reality".

I followed the advice, read the books, took all the "steps".... but, in the end, it was the OM who ended the affair, not my W, and my W "came back" because she just needed a "plan B"....

God has given us Proverbs 5 in His word, also. And there is no promise God has made that any specific marriage will "recover" or be worth anything if it does. Otherwise, He would not have given us permission to divorce for these reasons. If He were going to "restore" and "make the marriage better" in every case, He would have said "Thou shalt not divorce" rather than "Thou shalt not commit adultery".

If this website were strictly for the purpose of "rebuilding" marriages, then would not its very founder fully indicate that in his words?

You have here the expert testimony of a man who himself "cares" what God has to say, too.... and who has many years of clinical counseling experience and observation of cases at a first-hand level.

2long - that is exactly true. That is the condition that all marriages are in while the WS is still in an active affair and "WS mindset."

It ISN'T "easy."

It is also why I personally place a much greater "hope" on marriages suffering from infidelity where both the husband and the wife are believers and have the resourses of God available to them and not just their own limited resources.

BH has chosen the "attempt to recover" his marriage route, and that being the case, it would seem prudent for all of us to try to help him with the "tools" he will need to "give him the best chance" at getting through this mess and recovering the love between his wife and him for each other.

In the end, what virtually every person who comes to MB is looking for is HOPE. They are looking for tools and advice that will give them hope, even while the current situtation may look "hopeless." They are looking for an unwritten future situation wherein they are "recovered" and the "current situation" is a "bad memory from the past."

In the "final analysis," in the "reality" that MEDC refers to, the truth is that three things remain always...faith, hope, and love...and the greatest IS love.

It is love that motivates us to attempt the "impossible."

And that is "just my opinion" as one of many opinions on the system.

FH:

While I understand what you're saying, from my viewpoint there is no difference between the resources available 2 the believers and the non-believers. They both have equally limited resources.

I also agree about "hope." But, particularly in this emotional si2ation, bh needs 2 separate realistic hopes from wishful expectations.

Mrs bh has a lot 2 accomplish in a short time 2 convince bh there's any reason 2 be hopeful. The sensible thing 2 do at this point might just be 2 call this marriage a "failed experiment" and free the bhs 2 try 2 get their lessons learned on their own.

-ol' 2long

More typical "hit and run" tacits, MEDC. You NEVER want to engage in discussion or entertain that your "position" might be incorrect or subject to change if presented with information that you might actually consider to be worthy of changing a stance you have taken.

Question my "views" or my "sanity" all you want, I stand with God and ask you how your opinion and views "square" with God, as HE is the Measuring Stick for all of us, regardless of whether or not we even want to acknowledge Him.

But you seem to rather prefer putting your "faith" in Man, rather than in God. That is your right, but it doesn't make it "right."

From our past discussions, 2long, I also understand your position on this. Mine is very simple: without God, without the indwelling Holy Spirit, ALL any of has ARE our own limited resources. With God, however, we have direct access to God's unlimited, omnipotent, power....and I have personally experienced the truth of God's promise to His children in Philippians 4:13. "I CAN do all things THROUGH Christ who gives me strength."




ABSOLUTELY! I am in complete agreement with this statement. And he is in "phase ONE" of the process," the "destabilizing of the affair" phase. Having a goal of a recovered marriage, however, is not "wishful expectations," it is a goal to be striven for until such time as it becomes impossible (i.e. his wife divorces him regardless of his efforts or he determines that he cannot forgive AND reconcile with her [adultery IS that devastating to the Faithful Spouse] even is she "comes around" and wants to remain married to him).




It may be "humanly sensible," but it's NOT what is "humanly sensible" that is in operation here. Many of us, including myself, have uttered a phrase at some point in their marriage such as "if you ever cheat on me, I'm outta here!" Then the reality of an affair confronts us, and we "reevaluate" and choose to attempt recovery despite the enormous pain.

If it were NOT possible, there would be no need for MB or for any attempts to recover marriages.

But the issue we are always talking about is confession, repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration of relationships that HAVE been broken by sin. And I understand that "sin" is a theological concept, as is "forgiveness AS God has forgiven me."

On a more "limited" front, what purpose would Plan A or meeting Emotional Needs serve IF infidelity made recovery "hopeless" and "not worth the time or effort?"

The "unfortunate reality" is that in MOST recovery attempts, it begins with just one of the spouse willing to endure incredible pain and emotional abuse from the Wayward Spouse. It requires just one of the spouse to remain "faithful" to their marriage vows and to "not go down without a fight."

That, too, is obviously just my humble opinion, but it does seem to be the undergirding principle behind Marriage Builders.

Ya might want to send WW a copy of his e-mail.

Would be good for her to see how he is putting all this on her.

Calling the woman you're trying to score w/ a liar never goes over well.

Oh, and be sure to mention that you'd be willing to put money on the fact that he is calling her a liar to his family too.

BH75,

Your response to OM's email should be something like:

Great. So, you won't be on flight # ___ on July 3, then?

Good idea.

I think it's a good idea to reply (bcc) to OM, OM's parents, and WW with the following:

You should really include something about his flight on the 3rd.

Let him know you know, and that you'll be checking on him.