"I wish his evil state of mind had been defused before he felt entitled to murder those babies, that's all."

I too wish that, but it seems while in that state of mind they are incapable of seeing any hope of resolution or peace in their lives or the lives of the children.

It is too easy to write them off as monsters. Maybe satan had gotten ahold of their minds, maybe they weren't open to any reason, but as has been stated: these are permanant solutions for temporary states of mind...they can't see any positive out come in their situations and so life is no longer worth living.

It is extremely difficult to comprehend that they can't see that their innocent children should be able to live their lives in full and have had a chance at healing from their own painful childhood experiences as so many people in the world have to do. It is totally messed up thinking. But this way of thinking did not define who these people were in total...unfortunately because of their ultimate act that is the easiest way to define them as being evil monsters. Again, God will judge them as HE sees fit. It is very sad for the children and all those who loved them and the loved ones they lost.

It is unfortunate that so many people can't see that there is any hope for a broken marriage. But there IS, as many of us who have recovered marriages testify.

He was violent with a step son...and the step son is 19 I think. don't bet this just started. On top of that...it is a black belt in karate (which really speaks volumes about this "man") grown man striking a teenager.

His wife lived in fear of him as well. The only thing to do with this is to get away.

There should NOT be any hope for a broken marriage like this. He was a violent man and thankfully did not kill the other tow people involved here.

I wish his evil was DISCOVERED before this...so that they could protect themselves from this scumbag. He is defined in total for this act along with the fear he brought to those closest to him.

Frankly, he is [censored].



I guess in sticking with the title of this thread, I would say that this is evidence that recovery is NOT always worth a shot. This thread should stand as a testimony for those that are abused to not stay and work things out but to get away and use every single resource to keep the abuser away from the innocents.

The guy who killed himself was a dangerous animal? Are you joking?

I've tried to make the point that WSs are ALWAYS, 100% in control of their faculties, only to be told about some ridiculous "fog", and how an A affects the brain like crystal meth. Plus, aliens from another galaxy are using a mysterious mind-control beam to force people to have affairs.

Whatever it takes to make the WS less monstrous.

The man who killed himself and his children was obviously out of his mind. He snapped.

HE was not in complete control of his faculties.
HE was under the influence of some screwed-up brain chemistry.

So, can we maybe give the guy who KILLED HIMSELF as much slack as we'd give some idiot WS who just couldn't help but bang his secretary?

Seems like a lot of opinons are being based on what we READ in the papers.

I don't get it. Don't ALL WS's lie? Suppose the wife LIED to everyone about how she was afraid of her husband? Suppose the stepson was so resentful of his stepfather that HE lied? Haven't we seen cases even here on MB where that happened?

I am not condoning what this man did, AT ALL! It was a horrible and cowardly thing to do. But I'd rather go by Bob P's opinion of the man (who actually knew and met him) than to go by some sensational newspaper article. I don't follow the masses in crucifying someone by what I read. We DON'T know that there was previous violence, only what was printed in a newspaper.

It IS possible that he snapped. It IS possible that had there been a shot at recovery, this would have been prevented.

It IS horrible that he could see no other way. In trying to punish (IF that was his motive) his wife and her son, he ended up punishing two innocent children.

Just sayin.

was she a WW?

Is this a fact?

Even if it is, he killed his kids. THAT supports their account of his behaviors. Also, the son supports it.

I am saying that there have been (and are) some people on MB that it wouldn't surprise me to read about it happening to them.

Some of the WS are acting plum insane...if there is truth to what the BS is saying at the site.

The article said that he was upset about possibly losing his home...as in "building". I guess he thought he could even the playing field by taking the kids from her.

Still, some kind of screw was loose and it was only a matter of time before something else would have caused him to lose it.

It doesn't mention anything in the article about infidelity. That tidbit usually makes it to print.

committed

Editing to add: If a person attempts recovery in a marriage because of these types of fears or threats...what does that really say about the other person? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I am held hostage to another's "could do" actions. It doesn't feel right to encourage that type of recovery. NOT saying that anyone is...just that it isn't right. People are threatened with this type of action in abusive cases..."if you leave me I will kill you AND the kids" "You will never be free of me". I think that infidelity will cause a person to do things to themselves, or to the spouse...but NOT the kids. Something more sinister is brewing for them to take it out on the kids.

Oh, I guess you guys are right. I don't know where I got the infidelity bit. I admit I'm guilty... allowing the assumption of infidelity to color my own thinkin! :eek:

Bob,

I looked at the picture of that man. Is it normal for a karate person to be that bulky?

Looks like a lot of bulk on his upper frame. Reminds me of steroid use...NOT saying that it is.

Just looks like those men that bulk up.

committed

It is not that one would attempt recovery on being threatened or thinking their spouse would do some horrendous act..that would be stupid.

No, it would be that when things were going south in the marriage....due to infidelity, financial problems, or other interpersonal relationship issues...that they would really try to WORK on the marriage given the tools available like Marriage Builders instead of being so quick at pulling the trigger of divorce.

Too many people give up on marriages that could be fixed given the right tools. It is that most don't understand that or think it possible in the mainstream of society. Lots of people do not believe that people and relationships can change for the better once they have become bad. If leopards could never change his spots or rather if we could never change for the better...then why would there be redemption for us, then why would Christ have bothered giving us the gift of salvation and forgiveness for our sins?

CALI

There are all shapes and sized in that sport. In this man's case from what I know of him its more likely to be Pork Pie and Kebab overuse than steroids.

All

Like I said there are "rumours" of the reasons behind the marriages failure that I won't post because if gossip is wrong great injustice caused can never be taken back.

Can you imagine how the mother feels right now ? Dear God....

To me it doesn't matter one lick if his wife/xwife was doing an entire football team. The fact is this ahole killed his kids. I don't care if he just snapped. He murdered his children.

He belongs in a special part of hell reserved for his ilk.

From early in this thread:
I agree with this.

And since personal recovery is a requirement of marital recovery, I suspect that there are many similar tragedies that didn't happen simply because of attaining some personal recovery while marital recovery was attempted.

I agree with your thread title, Bob Pure, that recovery is always worth a shot....although how to do that, for how long, etc, will vary depending on the situation.

even Dr. Harley, whose job it is to save marriages, would vehemently disagree with this statement.

I agree with every word CN. I am just wondering if a civilised attempt at recovery might have avoided this evil. Thats all.

One side effect of attempting recovery that I have seen in my time here is that many WS and BS do not take action while extremely distressed.

I just wonder if this man could maybe have spent the rest of his life a POTENTIAL child murdering disgruntled ex spouse rather committing an ultimate betrayal if gentler, recovery-type words had been offered him. We'll never know.

I am not defending him at all.

BP & MEDC,

Isn't this really just another "twist" on the same old ongoing debate here of "strong vs. weak" BS's?

BP, I understand your "theory" and it sounds good, but impractical in reality simply because different BS's have different personalities and will handle their situations based largely on what their past experiences, personalities and the overall "strength" of their marriage pre-A leads them to consider.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, which makes making a blanket statement/theory from such an extreme case meaningless. This guy simply reached his "breaking point", and the scary part of it is, I bet a lot of BH's have found themselves frightfully close to doing something completely out of their normal character ... I know I sure did, but thankfully MOST will find a way to curb those feelings, and sadly ... SOME won't.

If have not read any of the news stories concerning this tragedy. As a parent it greatly saddens me to hear when a parent looses' a child for any reason. It's not the natural progression.

Implying, the offering the attempt or chance to recover would of saved these children is pointless. There are simply to many variables.

We have a read how a WS leads the BS through a false recovery. Only going through the motions. Wasting their money on MC and IC. Only so the WS can say I did all that was possible. How can that be said with a straight face when an honest effort was not made makes me sad.

There is no way of knowing what type a attempt would of been made. A false attempt may of only served to ratchet up the BH's emotions enough that he would of taken out in addition the SS and WW.

Was the BH ( was he a BH ) a bad husband? We will only hear the WW's side now.

We will never know why the SS and the BH had problems.

BH a bad step dad?
SS a POS?
SS hated the BH because the BH was originally the OM that caused his parents divorce?

WS or BS are not required to recover or even attempt to recover their marriage.

It's a choice. Life is a series of choices.

A choice to go on a date.
A choice to get married.
A choice to have an affair.
A choice....

BobPure:

Even if this BH didn't go crazy and kill himself and his 2 children I want to point this out.

As to your opinion of this man's character is that he seemed likeable from the little bit you had interacted with him.

I state this:

Birds of a feather flock together. He was goods friends with squids OM.

He seemed likeable in public.

Number 1 tool for WS's/OM's, to be well liked. Just like a politician.

Of course we wouldn't be talking about a going through the motions sort of attempt at an actual false recovery...but a real try at real recovery. And through it all if nothing else a personal recovery may result as has been suggested.

MEDC, you are jumping to all sorts of conclusions as none of us know the full story. No one here would ever say that taking his kids life was a good choice or his only choice....it was in fact a tragic choice that never should have happened and too painful to imagine.