Having a hard time following thread since there is more than one debate going on.

Make sure you make the trip down to get the answers you need.

Just to be clear and to what ever happens to this marriage - there is one message to learn from Dr Harley:


I had found out the hard way on my work travel. Now I take my wife with me or she flys in on the weekends where I am located. We are seldom apart overnight anymore.

Definitely talk to your W this evening, if she is willing. Definitely continue the exposure process by sending that email to OM, contacting his parents, etc. You don't want to drop any step in the chain. You are trying to put as big a cog in the affair wheel as you can. You must continue for effectiveness. What you DON'T want to do is pause between exposure steps...until you have some serious commitment from your W that she is willing to work on the marriage.

BH - I would agree with 2long and princesmeggy on this one.

Talk with her.

Expect the worst, the "Wayward Wife" mindset may be operating on full throttle, but you need the information.

If you hear it "heading south," end the conversation and tell her that you need to see her face to face to continue.

Get on the plane and go there.

I remember all too well when I stood 4 feet from my wife and her OM, with her telling the OM that she wanted him.

That was then. NOW you should hear her talk about him, and hear her express her love for me.

Stay focused on the "goal" for now, each "goal" as a step in the process.

God bless.

How did you handle the situation?

What was said, what did you say?

Obviously, it worked for you... So any advice you can give is greatly appreciated.

I think if it were me, I would send OM's parents a copy of the picture of himself in his shorts to your WW.

Let him explain his "INNOCENSE" for sending that picture to any woman, let alone a M'd woman.

That should shed some light to parents concerning the inappropriateness of their obnoxious son.

All Blessings,
Jerry

I'd wager the RO is a bluff that never happens. Regardless your trip to TX is going to be wasted, unless your only goal is to see them face to face at the airport.

Complete your exposure, give your WW your ultimatum/boundries, if/when she breaks them (this weekend). Send her a plan B letter, and enforce it without exception.

Pay the carrier penalty fee and use the ticket on yourself, go see someone who doesn't look at you as "the enemy". Go see a friend or family member.

Expect when this episode of fantasy island is over, she might crawl back.

I hope (for you) at that point you will be over it, having moved on.

-JKT

In situations like this, I tend to agreed with MyRev's thinking. If a WW knows you know about the affair and goes ahead with it anyways, thats it. I know that I could never get over that level of disrespect. If my FWW had not started crying on the kitchen floor and apologizing when I confronted her about her EA/PA, there is no chance that she would have spent another night in our house.

When you talk to your wife tonight, make the consequences of her actions black and white.

When you talk to her tonight, be sure to let her know that he is blaming their A on her... That he is telling others that SHE lied about being M.

Not only will it bug the crap out of her that he's portraying her in this way and not proclaiming his undying love for her, it will also make her realize that any dreams of a future w/ him, that she may have had, will NOT include the love and respect of his parents.

She's going to tell you it's over between you and her so you will let her enjoy her little getaway weekend with loverBOY (I capitalized boy because he is so much younger than her), and then a week or two later she's going to ask you to take care of _____ bill and can you help me with this or that. She's not done with you by a mile, so don't go along with her BS so that she can have her wonderful weekend she and OM planned without you ruining their plans. She's just planning on how she can manipulate you into allowing OM and her to spend their time together in peace. Don't take the bait.

Agree 100% w/ Jim.

The only thinking she has done is trying to figure out how to still make this weekend happen w/ OM.

She plans on saying whatever she needs to to you tonight, to make it happen.

Did you send those e-mails yet?

Should do it before you talk to her tonight.

When the conversation starts this evening, I would begin things by saying this:

"I just want to let you know that no matter what you say to me, I'll be flying down there on the third. You will get zero alone time with OM. Not this weekend."

"OK, what did you have to say to me?"


Let her know before she even starts that your bullsh!t detector in on high alert, and you're not going to swallow any of her nonsense.

I replied to OM and bcc'd OM's father and WW.

I agree she will probably try to manipulate. I've got the ticket, so I'm going down there regardless.

She either meets me down there, and we spend the weekend getting back on track or it's plan D. She will tell me she wants a divorce to my face, or I will go ahead and file it myself. As her husband, I deserve that "respect".

I will tell her if she doesn't see me this weekend:

1) She will spend good times and bad alone
2) She will be richer or poorer alone
3) She will spend her days in sickness and in health alone

It's going to be a long lonely life for her.

There will be no Plan B.

OM will have a long ride on the plane sitting next to me, or won't show up, or will make the trip some other weekend.

We will need to decide on one of the two situations should she choose to reconcile this marriage.

1) I move to TX, and move in with her, and she supports us until I can find employment. (Fortunately, I already have someone that will rent our house, but we will still be "losing" about $600 a month).

2) She returns to MI, and I continue to support us until she can start working again. (This seems like the best option financially - there's a chance that OM may re-enter the picture, but I will do my best to prevent that from happening).

Our reasons for leaving were that we thought we would be happier somewhere else. What she doesn't realize is that she wasn't happy when we were in AZ. She wasn't happy when she was here in MI. She's "happy" now in TX... But, I think she will soon discover that her baggage follows her to any destination. She needs to unpack the bags, and leave them somewhere so they will quit following her. That's going to be the hardest thing for her to realize, and it may not be possible, because she feels that everyone else (including me) is crazy, not her.

Either way, conditions of "re-marriage" are that she will give me access to all phone bills, e-mail accounts, etc. She will comply with a keylogger on her laptop (unfortunately, I can't do anything with her work computer). I will probably have to install a GPS locator on her car as well.

I'm sure we will have to think of other conditions as well.

If she can't agree, it will be plan D. She can't be trusted by me anytime soon after this entire situation.

I received a reply from WW's best friend, and she is shocked. She is calling me this evening, before WW does.

WW may not truly have had time to think about anything at this point, and I understand that. She has until Thursday evening to make up her mind.

If she chooses to either spend the weekend with OM, or without me for any reason whatsoever, I'm hopping on the first plane to Phoenix to be with my friends and family, then starting the paperwork on Monday for Plan D.

OM could be telling the truth.

Why do I say this?

Personal experience.

She could have told him you were in the process of divorcing (and obviously aren't).

She could have told him it just wasn't official yet.

She could have told him that she is divorcing and you know all about it.

She could have told him she was already divorced and you just aren't over it and are bugging her all the time.

Again, personal experience tells me this because I experiences it with multiple OM who were rather surprised to find out the person they were seeing was fully married and that the husband had no clue about what was happening.

Same goes with the (don't text me/email me because it's not safe) message that goes out. Saw that go out as well to multiple people.

So, he could be telling the truth, but verify.

Listen to your WW tonight and expect the worst. Expect all the psycho wayward babble.

Be calm and cool. Be the lighthouse in the storm.

Listen. Repeat her babble back to her.

Use reverse babble.

EXPECT entitled wayward mentality.

Now, about the other subject on this thread:

Religious talk is pointless to someone who doesn't believe and won't.

You can talk to someone about religion till you're blue in the face but it's Chinese to them until they themselves choose to listen and they must do it on their own. Beating them over the head with it won't wake them.

Yes, they took their vows before God and supposedly no man should break what is bonded with God.

Well, man does. And the bible itself allows for divorce in cases of infidelity. We are required to try to forgive, but if the WW is unrepentant, he can divorce and do so with the blessing of God and the Church.

BSes wrap themselves too often with the cloak of "God wants me to stay" and end up being doormats waiting for waywards to come to their senses.

I'm not saying he should say, "She cheated. That's it! I can divorce her legally now as far as the technicality in the Bible goes! Woo hoo!"

We're required to try. But I don't believe we're required to try at the expense of our own sanity and don't think we're expected to.

You know, everyone always says that if that happened to me, I would do .......... but the fact of the matter is, you never know what you would do until it happens. And you'd be surprised just how much you CAN handle. Whether you want to or not us up for debate, but I can say for myself that I endured FAR more than I ever expected. I just took it one day at a time and on many days one breath at a time. I followed God's direction, and He brought me through it.

Whenever someone says, "I would never put up with that!" I think to myself, "that's what YOU think!"

BH75:

What is there to discuss tonight?

First: You should be in PLAN A. Tonight is a PLAN A opportunity.

Second: Do not debate her.
A. IT'S not an Affair!
B. I don't love you anymore!
C. You a rotten person for sending Emails to "fill in the blank"
D. Divorce costs alot of money, and we can do this easily

Third: No ultimatums. You can state that there is No room for three in a marriage, or that it is unacceptable for you to have an A. But, to tell her to choose OM or YOU tonight, is just looking for trouble.

Fourth: The goal is to KEEP her ON THE PHONE. She has been talking to OM for more than a hour a day. So, you want to occupy some of that time. Make her remember WHY she married you.

Fifth: Should your M be saved? Don't know, nor does Dr. H. He hasn't written a letter to BH75 yet, but he has to people in similar situations, what his thoughts are. However, you started this thread with a statement that YOU wanted to save your marriage. And I will help you do that until you decide to go to Plan B, or Plan D. Then I will help with MB Plans for THAT.

Sixth: What do YOU think are your WW's top THREE Emotional Needs? If you have any idea, then you need to have your telephone conversation this evening, and tommorrow evening and until you decide to go to Plan B, TO CONCENTRATE on these EN's. For example:

A. EN#1 Financial Security: IF this is your WW's number 1 EN, then you need to address this in EVERY conversation. "I am looking for a solid job in TX, and the starting pay there is greater than in MI!. "This Mail order certification will allow me to get a $3,000 raise." Etc.

B. EN#2, Conversation: If this is one of her top EN's, then keep her talking, and keep on listening. Let SOME of the stuff she says pass. Learn the "Reverse Babble" that Orchid frames so well. Don't pounch on EVERY wayward thing she says. Do NOT accept blame for HER choice to have an EA, but acknowledge your failures in your marriage, and then speak to YOUR efforts to fix this.

C. Etc.

And remember, we are talking about HER EN'S. Not yours. What DOES she want out of a Marriage? Do not expect your EN's to be met until the OM is out of the picture and NC established.

Seventh: The exposure targets were a good thing, and you can respond and provide additional info to those targets to clarify and/or bolster your position. I would be sure to point out to WW what the OM said in reply to your Email, and expected that he would have cc'ed WW, but maybe not.... (Reverse Babble)

LG

bh75,

WOW, how refreshing it is to see a BH maintain and flex his "SELF-RESPECT". I tip my hat to you, sir!!!

NONE of us ever wanted to be here, but you are holding your head high, and are choosing to be the OPPOSITE of a doormat for your WW to walk on.

You are also choosing a path that I have advocated since I arrived at MB. As a BH, you draw a line in the dirt IMMEDIATELY ... your WW will get one chance to recommit to the M, and she will have to make that call within the next 72 hours. NO limbo for you ... GREAT!!!

Many of the so called "vets" here would be well served to pay attention to the example you are setting.

FWIW, due to your actions (and the inherent cowardliness of OM), my best bet is that, by Thursday, OM will not be anywhere near the airport. Your WW may not come around, but neither will the OM ... BECAUSE of your ACTIONS ... Well Done!!!

He said, "I was told she was divorced."

...Not divorcing.

Sun,

You're doing great!

You sound like a man who respects himself, and wants to give his WW one more chance.

Which ever way she decides, YOU will be ok.

Know that many are praying for you.

Bh75,

I totally agree with My Rev:


As a FWW I had much more respect for my DH when he finally got tough, set the boundaries and made them very clear. It made me feel he was finally ready to fight for us vs letting me walk all over him in regard to the A. I still, to this day, cringe over some of the things I put that poor man through. It made me so proud of him when he finally stood up. I needed to hear his very clear boundaries and I stopped playing games.

LC

Great post, MyRev!

LC,

That is a POWERFUL statement for bh75, considering its coming from the opposite perspective from his (or mine for that matter). It's a message that all newly BH's should hear LOUD & CLEAR!!!