Hello everyone. Here is my story. My wife and I have been married for almost 18 years 2 wonderful sons. Thought we had a great marriage. Usual problems but nothing major. Around Christmas of 2007 I began to get that gut feeling that something wasn't right. I started snooping every now and then through her email. Well, long story short, found out on 3/15/08 (D-Day) that she had been using a "secret" email account to contact this guy she works with. When confronted she said that yes she had contacted him but it was purely work related. When I pressed her as to why it was necessary to keep it secret she said she didn't want me to think that anything was going on. We have fought, cried, and everything in between. We have been to counseling with a wonderful counseler. That is how I wound up here, we used the His Needs, Her Needs book in counseling. She stands fast on that nothing happened. PA or EA wise. I still feel that there had to be something there to risk all of the hurt and destroying of trust. I really want to get past all of this. I love her more than anything and I feel she loves me. It is just hard for me to get past some of these feelings. Any advice?

Welcome to Marriage Builders, HD!

Getting past hurt feelings--I don't advise that you do. I believe in knowing what your hurt feelings are, identifying them, and tracing them to the beliefs you have they are coming from.

When we go through (instead of around), then the feelings drop off because their information was delivered.

What you have proof of was your W's decision to deceive you, cross an important marital boundary...and are you saying not own what she did, why she did it and how and why she won't do it again?

She doesn't own your hurt feelings...she does own her actions. Your feelings are valid...and they are yours.

Dr. Harley's advice to not have friends separate from our marriages is terrific...he says we cultivate friends of our marriage, where they will support The Marriage before either one of the partners in it.

By hiding this communication, she really was establishing a place to form an unhealthy friendship for the marriage. That hurts. Full of fear...and it's reasonable fear...because the way into an A doesn't always have neon signs...they begin with a whisper and snowball in to a bang.

Doesn't excuse a single decision...and your verifying the truth is wonderful! What a brave act for your marriage and your awareness of your partner.

Are you guys continuing counseling? Doing the ENQ's, the LBQ's and the Recreational Inventory? Has she committed to transparency to rebuild your trust and trust in herself?

What may help is seeing if you guys have different beliefs about what an affair really is...some move the line up and down, depending on their own situations...I prefer to put it at putting any third party ahead of your marriage...which is part of the rule of protection and care...you're half of the marriage, she's half of the marriage, and the union is The Marriage.

LA

Yes, she has taken ownership of her actions. We are still in counseling it has really heelped. I just cant't shake the feeling that she must have cared for this guy at some level to risk the marriage. She says it was just "stupid thinking" on her part. She said she thought if found out I would understand. She said she didn't think she could tell me she needed to send him some work paperwork due to the fact that in the past I had kidded about her having a boyfriend. I die but was just kidding. It is also hard to live with the fact that I wouldn't know this guy if he walked up and shook my hand. It is also hard to see her work in the same place as this guy. Thanks for the support.

HD,

Ahhhh haaa...your thoughts matter. You are perceiving her caring for another as enough to risk the marriage, risk losing you?

See, that's what most of us imagined when we said long before it happened--Any infidelity and I'm out of here! And then we didn't go.

OM isn't real, HD. He really isn't. She made up who he was in her head...which is why after an A, we look back at the OM and usually go...Oh my gosh--what was I thinking? Seriously. We make the frog into a prince because we're in fantasy, not reality...yes, we are really crushing pain into our marriage...no, we aren't really caring about OM because we don't know him.

We know you. You're real. We have real feelings for you because we choose to love you. We love the feelings which result from our fantasy image of OM, too...that's what we care about...alleviating our pain and sorrow...both from what we are doing and focusing on what you AREN'T doing or didn't do.

Gimble said "An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect."

The fantasy, the illusion, comes in because resentment does not come in from the outside...we create it within us...and build it. WhoDat said "Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die."

Dr. Harley says most affairs die a natural death within two years....because we can't sustain the fantasy image of OP. See, we actually get to know them...and the clean slate gets muddied and grimed just as it did in our marriages...and the fantasy shatters and we realize who is real (our BH's) and who we made up out of really thin air.

It's like we are in love with our own resentment, which we make human for awhile...because we have conditioned ourselves to see our BH's as the cause, then we can make someone else the cure. Is that reasonable? Not even. For others cannot be the cause, control or cure for our feelings.

They are our own. They are valid. We experience them as a result of OUR beliefs, thoughts, expectations...from our own stuff.

And we stop having loving feelings for our BH's because we stop ACTING from our love for them. Doesn't seem like that. We see it as the opposite...YOU stopped acting on your love. Not true. Nowhere close.

We could have chosen to divorce instead of having an A if that were really the case. We could have said, "Hey, I know you choose to put work, your IBs and your stuff ahead of our marriage. I respect you are choosing and I can't do more than I have...I've informed you. I know you know. Let's divorce so we can stop lying to ourselves that we really are putting our marriage first, 'k?"

Your FWW let you in on her own stupid thinking...we call it stinkin' thinkin', btw...because she shared with you the lies she told herself...and knows them now as lies...which she permitted from her resentment, built into entitlement (and that's one of the lies we say...either he'll understand or won't care) from her lack of respecting you for who you really are...see, she had to make you up, too, to balance it out.

You choice to not leave the marriage and divorce is part of what breaks apart the image we've assumed about our spouses and gives us insight to their real selves, independent and amazing of us or even our union. We go into marriage thinking we're a union of two souls...and we are...yet we only know our own souls through our self-image (most of which was created from what others believed about us)...the act of choosing your marriage in the face of infidelity is from real self's desire for the union, to really be known and to really know.

Well, you can choose to do that or just put it behind you. I don't ever recommend not personally recoverying...because what you don't heal will persist...and what you don't address will come back again.

Each time your FWW doesn't inform you of contemplated contact (like the paperwork) and POJA with you what to do, how to handle it, then she ISN'T continuing to own what she did, why she did it and how and why she won't do it again (which are healing amends). See how that works? Ownership doesn't stop. We don't continue to do our spouse's thinking for them. That's huge DJ which was AFFAIR thinking, see?

No more working in the same place as this guy. You need to know his name, if he's married, has a GF, everything you need to know to inform those his A affected. To live in truth. If you need to expose to their workplace to end their A (which all contact continues the A), then do so. That's not you destroying...that's you sharing information about what was already destroyed, 'k? Her actions and choices and his.

If you want radical honesty as your experience in your marriage, you gotta live your half. You gotta say "Ouch" when she says, "Well, you kidded me at the time about having a boyfriend" which is her justifying back then...did she follow that up with "That was what I used. You didn't make me. I did that."

And you own, "I have feared losing you all along. I avoided the truth along with conflict. I have my part in the environment we marriage. I won't come at anything sideways with you again. I will tell you my fears, my pain, my thoughts, my stuff. I love you."

LA

You are right. Should not have kidded in that manner. I own that. She has owned her part in this. She does not feel it is an affair. I have told her how I feel, but she still says it is not an affair. She says she has nor had no feelings for the OM. States it was work only. I want to believe her so bad. Just don't know though. She won't budge on this issue.

HD,

I don't do "should have" of "shouldn't have" because those are the words of fantasy.

You own you did kid her...that's part of ownership, not all. Next step, explain why you kidded her (knowing and sharing your stuff) and why and how you won't do it again.

Was I close that there was a question hidden within the kidding? A "So, is he?" in there? Don't cloak your stuff.

Now, if it isn't an affair, then have her print out the hidden email address and go to her boss and explain who this was just for work; why it was necessary to hide her emails to OM from her husband. That's reasonable. Simple act for the marriage. Worth you going to meet with her boss, isn't it?

LA

LA,
She said she told her boss. She said the reason she used the secret email was because she could not get it to go from work. Attachment too big is what she said. I saw the last email from him. found out the secret email address and hacked into it. He was telling her how he was feeling (physically) some kind of chest pain or something. At the end he stated how he loved hearing from her. She has closed that email account. Am I overreacting? She keeps saying it is not what I think. It was only business.

Is this guy married, also?

You can verify with her boss that W told her boss.

They don't have work email that handles the size of the file she wanted to send him, is that correct? (You can verify that as well.) Then how do others at her work do it? FTP?

I can't imagine this is the way the company wants their documentation of communication done...through yahoo or a discretionery email...now it's there and then it's not sort of thing.

I believe what will put into place radical honesty is talking directly with him and his wife, you and your wife, to say this is what happened, these are healthy concerns "love hearing from you", as well as her boss...so everyone is clear you love your wife and want to protect healthy marital boundaries.

Then I would do this...I would make sure your marriage was getting 20 hours of UA together in RC, talking, walking, being together with your eyes on each other and not a television; I would do verbal and non-verbal communication exercises with each other to show how much the marriage really does matter to you--share your fears, your stuff...as acts of love (they are).

And I would go ahead and thrive, HD...

Is there anywhere in you some projection which might be part of your pain? Have you had a close brush with online infidelity, workplace or neighborhood ones where you said or implied "you loved hearing from" a member of the opposite sex?

I'm not accusing...just covering the bases. Sometimes what we see clearly in our spouses (which means fearing greatly) is in us...and we use them to identify it in our own behaviors if we look. So I'm asking you to look. I've been so twisted inside out as to accuse my DH of doing some I was doing because he wasn't looking.

LA

According to her this guy is not married, was in a relationship that went south and he talked to my wife about it. According to her there has been NC since D-Day. I find it hard to believe since they work in the same building. I agree with the way business is supposedly handled. She says she was just trying to help out a friend. No I have never said anything like that to another person much less female. I am totally committed to my wife and have been since the day I asked her out for the first time 19 years ago. My W and 2 DS are my life. I have told her that this behavior is not acceptable. She says she agrees and it won't happen again. I am just trying to resolve it all in my mind so we can move on.

According to her isn't going to cut it with you, is it?

You want his name, address, phone number so you can contact him and make sure he isn't married.

She allowed him to speak intimately with her about his personal life, his love life, if you will. That's out of bounds for married women expose themselves to. That's work intimacy and then emotional intimacy...they also shared communication intimacy...see who A's begin? Crossing that boundary which protects our marriage.

Which is why we don't just try to help out a friend if it puts them ahead of our marriage...if she knew it would cause you to fear or worry, then those are healthy signals. She chose to do that which she knew would not add to her marriage.

Which is great to know right now, isn't it?

She's committed to not doing that again. She agrees it's unacceptable. How do you resolve what is already resolved?

That is a condundrum...do what I do...talk it out...share it all...each act of her choosing to listen to you, hear your intimate stuff, replaces what she heard from him...you're real. OM isn't. They aren't. Each time she shares intimately with you what she feels, thinks, believes or perceives right now, is a gift of love, only for you.

Respect she chooses...and know she has chosen to be married to you every day, even as you have...and know you can each choose differently--celebrate you do not.

Use this to understand more...and if you've been in a thriving marriage for 19 years, kudos! I can't imagine. If you went in without blind trust, blind faith in your partner...rectify that now, 'k? You each earn one another's trust, even as you also bestow your half of it.

Maybe it would help to talk about healthy boundaries with your sons, too? I was just remembering how encouraged I was while growing up to go steady with many boys, don't get too serious...and wasn't taught how to end a relationship (okay, so they were like walking me to class relationships) before beginning another...how to act honestly and share...how to treat myself and my commitments.

Somewhere, somebody assumed I knew...hey, smart girl...and I didn't...didn't have a clue. I don't think it has a thing to do with smart...and you can't outsmart your partner or other people. I can outsmart myself, though.

God works. He brings and doesn't stop. Find the blessing within...or wait to see it as time passes...and use this time to grow even more, side by side--the greatest act of love and commitment there is, in my book.

LA

Your right. How do you resolve what is already resolved. Guess I'm just having trouble trusting her again. I,m trying hard, doing what my counselor says. Learning to communicate better. Thanks for all the advice and support.

HD,

You're right...and you want to heal, to trust again.

Sounds reasonable to me.

How much do you want to trust her again?

How do you usually heal from trauma?

LA

I want to trust her badly. I always put her on a pedestal and never in a million years thought this would happen. I want to get those feelings back only tempered with the things we have learned from conseling and HNHN. I heal great from physical trauma. Emotional trauma, I don't know. Really my first really tough expierence with it. Guess I am doin so so.

Pedstalling our partners or anyone creates an imbalance in the reality we are equal to one another. We are capable of greatness in aid and harm...and we choose what we do and do not, every day.

You're here, you're sharing and that's part of healing.

She earns your trust back with openness and honesty...takes you acting open and honest about your stuff to heal. Mutuality.

What I think you also experience was a reality adjustment. Which means you had a fantasy of this not being able to happen. See within that what you put away, didn't do, stopped being aware of which will help you heal today. Share what you find with her.

Over time, from repetition, your trust will be rebuilt by her actions...and part, from you choosing to trust. You may have felt erased...you weren't.

You're still here, married and you didn't lose everything. Felt like you were for a moment; lots of pain in that.

Grieving has five stages (you probably already know this); denial, anger, bargaining, sadness and acceptance. Acceptance is not approval...it's accepting what happened really happened. Consider you may be grieving loss from your expectation she wouldn't hide anything from you...is that a reasonable expectation or one you didn't even know you had? Feeling angry because she did what you didn't expect; wanting to bargain away what happened (if I'd done this, then she wouldn't have done that); the sadness as you feel the loss, even of what isn't reasonable or respectful; and accepting this is what happen separate from intentions...the whys of why it happened.

Stay open with sharing your stuff and hearing hers...you guys can get to a new level of intimacy, possibly, you hadn't known was there...which is the flip side of unreasonable expectations of others (which comes from pedastalling them...your image of them out of sync with what we all are able to do). Intimacy is within equality and vice versa.

Stay aware and sharing and you will heal, regain respect and trust...just not to unreasonable degrees (which is our fantasy of keeping ourselves safe through our own image of others).

LA

She has been open and honest as far as I know. I really haven't been looking either though. I am trying to let the trust rebuild.

I don't understand your reasoning.

She lied to you through omission.

You think she's being open and honest again, but you haven't been checking, so you don't know.

How does that "let trust rebuild"?????

I'm worried that this makes sense to you...because you verify her honesty and THAT rebuilds trust between you. She knew she was being honest, and you verified she was, so you both know...and each time makes a trust deposit...and if you don't verify, you are blocking her deposits, and harming your marriage.

Blind trust isn't real and is harmful to real intimacy in marriages.

Maybe this is my perception of what you mean. Please clarify or confirm if I understood you correctly.

LA

I have confirmed several things. Can't confirm if she has seen him at work though. That is the hard part. I don't have blind trust. She has regained trust in some areas. She just wants everything to be over and move on. I do to but I am also realistic in that it is going to take time and work. She is being transparent with giving email passwords etc.

So you first said you "haven't been looking though" and now you say you have, to the best of your ability...which is a lot.

I wonder about this difference...do you think that looking to the best of your ability isn't enough? That it's out-weighed by not knowing her contact at work? Are you discounting your half maybe?

Could be, HD, that I'm tired, stressed and just not paying attention. Don't factor me out of the communication--right now, I'm half of this one.



Are you guys also touching, holding, whispering and playing together a lot? Was some of what you experienced a huge scare because you'd been allowing distance, a bit of withdrawal, on your part prior to finding out?

Sounds to me like you're through this, which is healthy. Stay present, right now...and see how you feel. If you choose to believe you will heal, you really will. Don't skip over, go under or around yourself and you'll be fine, 'k?

More intimate time is more knowing one another time, right now. Maybe that will help, too? Are ya datin' your wife?

LA

We touch, hold hannds constantly, hold each other, "snuggle", etc. It's like we are in high school again. I may be through this. I just wonder why. According to our conselor, no matter what answer I get, it won't be good enough. Thank you for your support and insight. I has been extremely helpful.

HD,

I had a thought (and kudos on your refreshed intimacy).

Can you think back to before you met your wife and remember something shocking that someone did (good friend, sibling, parent or relative), something withheld from you, which gave you a similar experience?

Might have been experiencing gossip (talking behind your back) or when you were really young, a best bud dumping you for another new best bud?

Just curious. We really do want to heal our old wounds through our spouses...part of the partnering which closely overlaps the parenting...might be what's blocking you from healing all the way.

And kudos for you for choosing your goal to really get all the way healed, too.

LA