So my wife and I have been married for about seven years. We don't argue a lot, have a lot of the same interests and spend a lot of time talking to one another. We've had a great relationship and made it through some pretty tough times with no appreciable damage to our marriage. Having spent seven years hanging out with one another, we decided to have a baby last year around Christmas 2006, and within a couple of months, we were pregnant.

Around May of 2007, I suppose, my wife was acting a little depressed and "off", and her email account was left open one day, so I snooped around a little to see if I could get a little insight as to what was bothering her.

What I found was an email written from a friend of hers talking about this guy that she and my wife work with. We'll call him Dave for kicks. And we'll call my wife Kay. My wife's friend was going on and on in the email about how Dave was putty in Kay's hands, how he expresses his undying love for her, and how she could easily see why Kay would "cave in to him".

Needless to say, I literally felt like someone had hit me with a brickbat. I called my wife at work, demanding that she come home immediately. She did, and proceeded to lie to me about how she hadn't really had a crush on this guy and that nothing was going on and that her friend was just "teasing" her about nothing. That made zero sense to me, so I continued on pestering her until I reached the next level of truth, which was that she had had a crush on this guy, but that he knew nothing of it and that it was harmless and over within a month.

I didn't believe her. My wife is a horrible liar, and I'm pretty decent at sniffing out a lie from almost anyone. I dropped it for the time being because I was tired of her lying to me, and I let it go.

Let's fast forward to my wife's birthday in May of 2008, and the party that this same friend was going to throw for her, to which I was noticeably not invited. I asked a few times about the party just out of curiousity, to see if she would ask me to go, which she did not. When I asked her nonchalantly a couple of days before the party who was going to be there, she told me it was a girls only thing, and that she really didn't know who all was going to be in attendance, but seemed very evasive in general. I immediately became suspicious, and decided to ask the next day why she hadn't invited me to her party. She told me it was only a girls thing, and I told her I thought she was lying to me. She was, of course, and eventually admitted that Dave might be there, but that she didn't know if her friend had invited him. Later she admitted that she knew Dave would be there, and that she didn't want him and I to have to share space for her party. I think she was lying about this, and wanted him there specifically. I don't think this little "crush" is over.

Throughout the entire thing, I've always felt as though Kay has been leaving a large chunk of this story out. She's become extremely indignant when I've insinuated or said this, and even gone so far as to literally swear on our son's life that she hasn't left anything out or that she isn't lying.

I went out the other night for a get-together with Kay and some of her co-workers to see one of them off to Iraq. I stayed for a little bit after my wife went to go pick up our son from the babysitter, during which time this Dave character arrived. I really expected a cool guy by whom I should feel threatened. Not so much. He's a tall guy with dark hair and is reasonably good looking, but a little on the dorky side I think. Besides, he's a kid. As in like probably 23 or 24. My wife is 33 and I 39. I digress.

When Dave arrived, he introduced himself or spoke to everyone but me. He knew what I looked like or who I was because someone else had addressed me as he walking into the room. He simply passed right by me, intentionally looking away from me so as not to have to meet my eyes. During the time I spent there, one of my friends kept telling me, "That guy behind you is staring at you." I could feel it. He eventually switched tables and actually spoke to me, but he seemed very nervous to me. All night long I caught him looking at me in an odd way. Very creepy.

The next morning I confronted my wife about it, and let her know that I had figured out the missing piece to the puzzle. They had both had a crush on one another. It hadn't been a little small one way crush. After two hours of her lying and changing her story no less than six times (no kidding...like six different versions and elevated levels of truth) to me again, she finally admitted that they had both had a crush on one another, but that it was harmless. She swears nothing happened.

Here's how I feel. I feel like my wife is telling me only what I am able to either prove or make a very good argument for at the time. She swears she never touched him, but I'm not so sure of that. If this little crush was so insignificant to her, why would she have lied to me for over a year about nothing? Previously, I had had absolute trust in my wife. I had never trusted anyone more than her. She was the best friend I have ever had. Now if she told me the sky was blue, I'd go check for myself to make sure it wasn't pink.

My question is: How does my wife regain my trust? I still think there are parts of the story she is leaving out. I have no way of finding out the missing piece. I don't know her email password, and even if I did, I don't think I would want to find out that way. I just want her to tell me the truth about all of this so that we can move on and begin the "healing process". I know she is leaving something out, because she's done it all along by giving me what I have come to call "degrees of truth" - escalating the truth of the situation very gradually. Of course, this just makes everything worse for both of us by dragging this out. Until she comes to me willingly and tells me what is missing from this story, I'll wonder forever, I suppose, what my wife really did. And until she shows the fortitude to tell me this on her own, I don't know if I can ever trust her again. She's done a lot of harm to our relationship, and I feel like its time for her to step up and start repairing it by coming clean.

Thanks for letting me rant. I'm long winded, and you all have both my sympathy and apologies for this.

Safe Travels,

Boogs

P.S. I hope this is the right place for this.

There is alomost no chance that your wife isn't actively commiting adultery.

Please learn as much as you can as quickly as you can and act swiftly in ending this. She needs to stop seeing / contacting him immediately or you will find yourselves in ruin.

PLEASE heed this warning. It comes from a place of hurt and understanding.

Welcome. I wish you never had to find us...

You are in the right place. I am a FWW(former wayward wife). She is lying. please send her here where there are many FWW"s and BH's that can help her and get her back on the right path. My Emotional affair turned into a physical affair because I refused to believe I was doing anything wrong. She needs to go NC with "Dave" immediately and work on your marriage. It's so not worth it to cheat on your spouse!!!!! I am a long ways from recovering my marriage, but I wish to God we didn't have anything to recover from! Don't let it get that far!!!!

Trytoohard is my husband.... He knows about the hurt and pain I put him through.

Ho Boogs, sorry you are here, but you are in the right place. The first thing I would do is STOP ACCUSING, and start some creative, active snooping. Perhaps you can install a keylogger on her computer and hire a P.I. to follow her. I very much think she is having an affair but you need to get the evidence.

[get SpectorPro if you have daily access to her computer or eblaster if you need the reports emailed to you daily]

Another thing you can do is put a GPS on her car and put a digital voice recorder in her car.

If you can't find anything that gives you the truth and you still can't get the truth out of her, I would give her an opportunity to PROVE HER trustworthiness by paying for a lie detector test. She should be THRILLED at the opportunity because she can clear herself this way.

After you do all this, i would ask that she leave the job - NO MATTER WHAT. Working with someone who has a "crush" on you is a RECIPE FOR DISASTER. If nothing has happened, which I do not believe for one second, something WILL happen in the future.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!! DO NOT SEND HER HERE!

You need to start spying and get intel.

Install a keylogger on your computer.

There is NO doubt in my mind that she is having an A.

Sending her here NOW, would be the worst thing you could do!!!

Do you have a landline that she uses sometimes? Have you checked caller ID? Checked the redial function when you come home? If she uses this phone you can buy a phone tap from Radio Shack.

Don't go on hoping you will get the truth out of her. Snoop. Install a keylogger. You NEED to know. It will be painful, yes, horribly painful, no doubt about that at ALL.

But it still needs to be done. Confirm the A and then expose.

Charlotte

Sorry bad advice, just thought if she could see the course and the hurt and anguish it was going to cause it might stop her....

Marshmallow is right, don't send her here!!

Have you read this? Read this, courtesy of Michele G's first post on my thread. Please substitute "WW" for "WH" when needed:

This is a journey now and here's the beginning.

Your WH:
Is having an A (either EA or PA or both)
He will lie
He will wonder how much you know
He will want to cake eat as long as possible
He is having needs met by both of you
As long as he is allowed to continue, he will

This is your part:
Time to expose the A to OWH again and any family member or friend that may have influence over him

Read this:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


Exposure is your strongest weapon against the A. Use it, and use it wisely. Do not tell him that you are going to do it, just do it. Expect more anger. Your M can survive his anger, but it cannot survive if he remains a WS.

Start a good plan A. If you can call the Harleys for advice. Read Surviving an Affair. You will learn the dynamics of affairs. They are all pretty much the same. The WS use the same script.

Your WH will try to rewrite history and put you in a bad light. He is trying to justify his actions to himself. He is probably addicted to the feelings of the A, not the OW. She could be anyone.

He has weaknesses that he did not protect. It is a slippery slope.

Keep coming here. Read, read, read.

Yeah. And don't send her here. It's not time for that yet. May not be for a while.

Charlotte

There's no way I'm installing a keylogger on the computer. No way. I don't want to save my marriage via force and threat of snooping. I want her to be an adult and come to me and fill in the blanks on her own. If I have to make her do that, then what's the friggin' point? Kinda like where we are now - yes she's told me some of the truth, but its a meaningless confession because I interrogated it out of her. Her honesty becomes a "forced" honesty that has almost no legitimacy, because she refuses to come forward and make things right.

I'm finding myself really wanting to confront him to find out the truth. He's readily available. I know where he works (obviously) and I know what shifts in general he works. It would certainly do to hear it from someone, even if it happened to be him.

I think that more than anything, I'm most angry at her for destroying this trust we had built up for one another. We were the relationship that people envied. Now probably not so much if they knew the truth, which I suspect many at her job do.

I've had this happen to me before, and my father tells me I'm too nice in general. I cook, clean, do tons of fathering with our son. I'm not disrespectful. We don't argue or raise our voices to one another more than a couple of times a year, and of course I've never hit her. Her parents adore me, and I them. We could have had the storybook marriage, and now I feel like I can't trust the woman I love. Its a sad state of affairs to be sure.

Why not?

You certainly aren't going to get the truth from your WW.

And you cannot begin to fight this A and recover your M w/o having the facts.

I don't know how much good it would do to even install one if I wanted to, which I don't. She works with this guy, and they work in a bookstore out on the floor, so its not like they can't talk and chatter all they want while they're there, and the facilitating friend works there as well. If I had never found that email, there would never have been even a shred of evidence that there was anything going on.

Besides, I think that she thinks that I'm reading her email anyway (which I'm not...I really don't want to find out that way).

Besides, if I was reading her email and confronted her with whatever I found, then doesn't she have all the excuses in the world to treat me as if I had been too controlling and spying on her?

Boogy,

It seems to me that you have a few choices before you.

I know a little bit about affairs, and people in them. I'm a BS. You don't want to know about the truth of what is going on by spying on your wife. That would be one choice. You can ask the OM, another choice. You can check cellphone records, emails, your computers, other choices. GPS, voice-activated recorders, still more choices.


You feel like pressing her to tell you the truth diminishes the truth...that is a strange concept to me. To me, the truth is the truth - it is the truth in and of itself. It cannot be diminished, it exists as an entity unto itself, and its method of being revealed to us can neither diminish it nor enhance it. The truth stands before us as it is. Whether we have pressed for its revealing, whether we happen upon it, whether we discover it after a lengthy journey, or it comes to us in an epiphany - it remains the truth.

The truth "is".

Still, I can respect that you don't want to spy, etc. I would advise you to press her for the truth, because you do need to put pressure on her to end her affair - because without pressure of some kind the emotional affair will not end. Your marriage can survive her being angry with you - it cannot survive her having a boyfriend.



People in affairs justify their actions because they feel entitled to be doing what they are doing. They lie about their behavior, and do not feel that they "owe" anyone the truth about their actions. Your decision to wait for her to tell you the truth could result in her affair with this OM becoming entrenched, becoming further underground, and could also result in her destroying any evidence that may exist. Evidence that you might need should you decide to divorce her later, or if she decides to leave you for the OM. There is a child in the picture now, and while your distaste for spying is respected, it might be something to think about - custody issues should be considered.

Your WW has already lied to you repeatedly about the emotional attachment she and this OM have had with one another. Despite your pressing her for answers, she has chosen not to tell you. This should give you an indication that she is currently in a mindset of keeping you distant from her, and protecting the OM over you and your marriage.

Her desire to disclose the secrets of this other relationship are not strong. While your beliefs of the nobility of honoring honesty are admirable, they will not be effective in stopping her affair.

She will not want to tell you - until she is ready to stop the affair on her own.

You CAN make her more ready to stop the affair, however.

You have come to the right place to do that.

Read up on the Carrot and the Stick of Plan A.

Go into Plan A, and do it effectively. You do need to ask your wife to end her affair with this man. She is in what is called an "emotional affair" with him. You might find that she is in a physical affair later, but she has at least admitted the emotional affair part to you. That means you have work to do.

Ask her to fill out an Emotional Needs Questionnaire. You can find it on this website.

Start filling her top three emotional needs. That will get you started.

Post here. Read the website. This will take some time to fix.

Not to make you feel bad...but this might be a little unrealistic. Most people lie for one reason - to protect themselves from the consequences of their actions and/or the reactions of others. Look at the media - people don't generally 'confess' until they are caught.


Again, why would you think HE would tell you the truth. He owes you nothing and he doesn't know how you will react. IMHO, he would be the least 'credible' witness.


In addition to finding out if, in fact, your wife is having an affair, it sounds like you need to read up on the material here at MB. One thing I have learned over the last six months in counseling is 'not arguing' isn't usually the mark of a happy marriage. It's a sign that one or both of the partners have withdrawn from the marriage. When a partner withdraws they either leave or they find someone else - like your wife has. Your marriage is in trouble, not because your wife is involved with another person, rather she has turned to someone else because she is not getting her needs met within the marriage. This is NOT to say she is justified in her affair, she's not. BUT it is a sign that not all is well within your relationship. Read and learn all you can here. There is good information about how to 'fix' your marriage but at the same time you need to get her away from 'Dave' so she can see more clearly.


Personally, I think 'snooping' is wrong except when you have good reason to do so. Think of it this way - your wife is hiding information that is important to you to know so that you can make an informed decision about your life. You have a right to that information - everyone does.Let's suppose for the sake of argument that she is having a full-on affair with Dave. She is, in effect, trying to affect the outcome of her actions by withholding information from you. She is actually controlling YOU. If you know she is having an affair, you might leave. She is trying to prevent that until she decides whether to leave you or not, so she is taking away your right to make that decision for yourself. So who is the controlling one?

I cannot agree more wholeheartedly with this.

Do not reveal what you know to her. She will go further underground. She will see it as you trying to control her.

She is incapable of rational thought.

If and when she ends her adultery and shows true remorse and repentance, maybe then she can come here to try to save her marriage.

To do so prematurely would be incredibly counterproductive.

Listen to Melodylane...

Boogy,

""if I was reading her email and confronted her with whatever I found, then doesn't she have all the excuses in the world to treat me as if I had been too controlling and spying on her?""

I read my W's email from the OM bragging about finding my W's G SPOT FOR GOD'S SAKE!! That of course was on Dday.

SNAP OUT OF IT!!!

What's worse, your wife having a physical affair with a younger boy toy, or you snooping because she has given you great cause to not trust her?

Oh yeah, my W's OM was 10 years younger.

Your wife is having an EA, and maybe a PA. To think she will do the honorable thing and come to you and confess is unreasonable. Adulterers lie, deny, gaslight, (telling you YOU ARE crazy) blow up, become indignant, turn it back on you, and freak out to avoid the truth.

You snoop to find the truth. If you snoop and there is nothing then there is nothing.

BUT YOUR GUT IS TELLING YOU DIFFERENT! Plus she is a terrible liar and you know there is a large chunk that is missing.

You slap her around to us, then defend her when someone suggests there could be some funny biz going on.

It has been my experience here that you should be expecting the worst, I'm afraid.

So snoop!!

Start frequenting the book store.

IMHO

kirk

The point is to save your marriage, which you are not going to do by sitting there twiddling your thumbs. This is silly, boogy. Finding out the truth is likely the very thing that will save your marriage. Your marriage cannot be saved unless and until you get the truth out.

"Wanting" her to be an "adult" is not getting you anywhere. You wanted her to be honest and faithful and look where that "want" got you. We all wants lots of things, doesn't mean we are going to get it. And you aren't getting it.


Which is exactly you need to STOP forcing her to lie to you. You should stop asking her, and find out on your own. IF you want to save your marriage. STOP INVITING HER TO LIE TO YOU.


Ridiculous. Expecting the truth from a dishonest person is a silly and unrealistic expectation. Why would he tell you the truth? If he does, he has to give up your wife. Not likely.

Are you going to do something to save your marriage, Boogy? If you want to save your marriage it will take much more than sitting around "wanting" things. You are going to have to man up and get to work here!