Back in March my woman's intuition told me to be cautious about a new female friend H had. I let my guard down a little bit because she seemed nice enough, but boy was that a stupid thing to do. See, turns out she and her H are having issues too...and I guess H and she found common ground to start an EA. I just, literally, 2 hours ago found out. I went to the garage to ask H something and I heard him on his cell phone (a new phone that he bought in his name recently). He was talking shop for a bit (they race quads), but I knew he was talking to her. He then started talking about the race they will be attending over the weekend - together...then proceeded to tell her I didn't even say hi to him (which I didn't cause I came home from work greeted by a realtor assessing our house so I was a little annoyed!) He told her how much of a b*tch I was and that my true b*tchiness was showing. Then he turned all lovey before they were about to get off the phone. Saying "are you ok? are you sure? you seem blah? I'm sorry if I confused you." "I really am true in my feelings for you and us." "I want to build a relationship with you." etc.!!

So, I couldn't hold back any longer and broke every LB rule! It struck such a chord and I couldn't stop the rage of emotions. She was still on the phone mind you while I was screaming at him voicing my hurt that he could throw away 11 years for that [insert nasty adjective of your choice here!] He says they haven't gotten physical but they've had opportunities so I don't believe him. He started bringing up all of our issues while I assume she was still on the phone..it was a huge blow-out...he blamed me lots of things...which I know I'm not at fault for because I can't control his emotions..he needs to learn to own them!

It hurts so badly! What's even worse is that I know I am wasting my breath when I try to reason with him...when I said that to him, he threw up his arms and said "well that's it, that's all I needed to hear!" As if anything I said before that was actually changing his mind and I did myself in with that comment! I'm sorry this is long and venting!

He left to get cigarettes but I know he is going to be calling her. Sometimes I think why would it be worth salvaging? why do I want to make this work so badly? espceially after all the nasty things he said to me! UGH! Anyone that's been through it can you answer me that...I feel that there is something wrong inside me to want to work on my marriage...like I'm lacking self-confidence or something by wanting to forgive him and make this better...sigh.

I do wish I found this site 3 years ago - then maybe after H's first EA we could have worked on us properly instead of harboring resentment and ill feelings which have lead to this...thanks for letting me vent - it's calmed me down considerably!

So, I'm assuming I should expose now. I told his half-sister - she could care less it. She said he actually spoke to her about the OW so I guess she knew something was bound to happen.

I guess I should contact his other half sister too. I don't know about exposing to his sister that he is estranged from? Then it's friends/OW's husband...

Years ago, my W had 2 PAs (that she admitted, I know it was more)
and, of course, it was all my fault.... if I were this, if I were that, if I would have given her more sex and better sex, I'm too fat, I don't make enough money, you name it, I WAS it....

I believed the advice of my church and some christian books I read that I could "save" my marriage. The only part I didn't "get" was that IT WASN'T WORTH SAVING.

I endured 4 months of pure hell while she continued her affair even though she knew that I knew. That should have been my first clue.

So, in retrospect, and I have had 22 years to think about it, I offer this advice....

If, when "caught", the WS repents IMMEDIATELY and seeks to change the marriage with his own efforts.... then you might have something worth saving. In other words, he was decieved and drawn away by lust.

If it continues after being caught, forget it. Because it is a MORAL PROBLEM of a continuous nature.

Spin,
If you H has NOT turned this EA into a PA, there is still hope. Maybe this would have been helpful three years ago, but now you're here...so don't look back. Do ALOT of reading and get educated. Also, I'd suggest you do a google search of EA and educate your husband. Yup, I'd tell her H. Especially if it looks as if it's on the road to a PA. You have to decide how much you love this man and how much you're willing to endure. If you truly believe this man is your soul-mate...start fighting! Trust me, the first time I met OW it was in my own home. I invited her here because H befriended her and I, too, felt sorry for the situation she was in. From the very first minute she walked into our home I KNEW!!! Your instincts are usually right.
By the way...I caught a phone call in the garage too!!!

I have actually grappled with that thought also tfkeel.

He shows no sign of even thinking what he is doing is wrong - after all he told me he wanted a divorce and retained an attorney so that justifies looking elsewhere in is mind. Plus I was such a horrible mate (obviously I'm being sarcastic - I know it's not all my fault like he says!!)

Thank you for your advice...I will take it to heart

Thanks fiori. I have endured so much. His sister and my sister both think I'm crazy for still wanting to work on this. I love my H though and I love the life we began building...it's worth the fight in my mind and heart.

I also know that if nothing comes from the fight then I will be ok with it. I might not feel it now, but this too shall pass and my strength will lead me through whatever life throws at me.

fiori that's pretty weird about the phone call in the garage. Best part is, I didn't come in quietly expecting to catch him on the phone with OW. I knocked on the door - no answer so I got my key and unlocked the door...that makes noise!

Oh, mine had the door wide open! That's how bold and 'in your face' this was. He was convinced for months that I was blowing it all out of proportion and that she was simply a friend! I suppose when she professed her undying love and devotion to him he finally caught on. But, even after that he was in denial for many months. This was a god awful roller coaster ride. But, things began to unravel finally!!! Keep in mind, this was AFTER he told me the words that will haunt me forever ''' I think maybe I'm supposed to be with her..." Hey, shoe in the gut -- that felt great! Anyway, as he looks back now he realized that this was part of the craziness and the ego boost (although he refuses to SAY ego was involved.) Anyway, there is hope. He's not thinking clearly. You have to find a way to straighten out his mind. But, if she's still an influence this will not be easy.

Oh, don't we all love it when our egos are stroked! It really is interesting how human's needs work...and the MB concepts are so logical based on human nature! Every WS acts the same.

I really hope and pray that we can endure the roller coaster to get back what we lost and then some! I tell him he is not thinking clearly...he disagrees of course - there is no reasoning with a WS. I told him that I felt he was having an affair even before I found out (I asked him also and he denied one - I wanted to believe him but I wasn't born yesterday!)

Good for you for hanging in with your H!! I'm sure every day is work - but it's a good kind of work - knowing that you are in it together...

FWIW-
My husband has huge intimacy issues, which manifested itself in an addiction. His addiction was his mistress.

He's been in therapy now for over a year. It took him 9 months of therapy before I began to see changes. And I was lucky that he wanted to stop his acting out. I didn't have to "convince" him what he was doing was wrong.

We just bought his needs/her needs. After both of us being in individual therapy, we're ready to deal with building our marriage. But it took individual work, lots of it that was hard on both of our ends (as in our case, the addict married the co-dependant..)We still aren't done with our individual work.

I'm willing to bet the issues in your marriage go far beyond avoiding love busting behavior. Our did.

IMVHO, if I were you, I'd be figuring out how much longer you can live like this, and what you need to see for him to stay, ie set a deadline to make a decision. Detach lovingly from your husband during that time.

((Spins)) Just briefly read through your thread. So sorry you are here.

My H had an EA with a coworker...within a few weeks it was just as described here, like an alien took over his body. He didn't care about us, our home, our kids. It was very strange. Thank goodness for MB and the "addiction" theory to help me understand all this.

I'm happy to hear you are getting ready to expose. A good exposure plan will be a VERY GOOD first step to bursting your H's fantasy bubble with his OW.

I would recommend going to the GQII forum here under infidelity. There are some amazing vets there to help you with your exposure plan.

Hang in there!

Maybe this thread on Exposure will help you?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2053438#Post2053438

Good luck and hang in there.

Thanks. I saw this thread yesterday and started giving it a read at break times at work, but I have not finished it.

I am confused on whether or not to expose to estranged/semi-estranged family members. If WH's sister and aunt/uncle knew what was going on with us (and more specifically his A), they may reach out to him and this could influence him. However, WH is quite hard headed and proud and since the fog has also set in, he is even more stubborn and doesn't care for those estranged people anyway!

If I don't expose to them, that leaves me with OW's H and our/his friends because both his parents have passed away...

I'd be interested to know if others have had similar situations with exposing and the difficulties with it.

Exposure worked very well in my situation. I exposed to everyone the very day I discovered my H's EA. The only people who put pressure on him was his parents. But after he found out everyone knew, he went from being rude and cold to me to being...well, embarrassed...

Part of the reason exposure is so effective is that A's thrive in secrecy...they don't do so well in the light of day...

I think exposing to OWs family is a very good idea!

Read all you can and post in GQ...get your exposure ducks lined in a row. Good luck!!

Well, I was hoping even though I knew the truth deep down that WH was only having an EA...I now believe that based on my knowledge (although still no hard and fast physical evidence) that he in in a PA.

Wednesday evening WH packed a few things and went to his father's now vacant house he was renting up until recently. I knew OW was going to be there (made the trip down from MA to NJ) - he didn't tell me nor did I have any proof...I just knew. It didn't help that he left for the night and took his camcorder and digital camera (WH has a thing for photos/videos of the "act" - guess it's part of that porn addiction).

Has anyone every confronted their WS and OP face to face while they were together? I was tempted to do that but also afraid of HOW I would do it - it wouldn't be pretty for obvious reasons. I thought it would also be counter productive.

I really want to believe that we can get past this time in our lives and that WH is just totally fogged and not really serious about throwing away 11 years of our lives together...it's hard to believe though when you feel the odds are stacked against you.

I do want to expose - however, at this point, since WH has completely distanced himself from his family, they would't have any influence. Friends I feel would be more likely to believe him over me since they've known him longer. I dont know anymore...my confidence in recovery for us is failing (even though I don't want it to!!)

Here's my take...
If offered a chance, I know I'd confront the two of them while they were together, but I tend to be a little dramatic. But, if you do it, be prepared. You will most likely NEVER get the image of the two of them erased from your mind.

Fiori, I tend to be dramatic and emotional too so I doubt I could find the calmness to confront them both. I was curious to hear other people's thoughts because there is so much temptation to do it even though I know how I will get!

As for the image...I know it'd be different to see her now in comparison to when we met her in early May (when I don't think there was anything going on), but I already have images of them from our meeting in May. I know these images are not nearly as damaging to me than if I were to confront them now but in the same respect - my imagined images are A LOT worse!!!

My H engaged in a sustained EA. But, he tells me all the time that what I imagined happened between the two of them and what really did happen are worlds apart. I can imagine that's the truth, as I pretty much know H. He screwed up royally by letting another person contaminate our marriage. But, he was smart enough to eventually cut off the 'friendship' and return back to home base. If I thought this had gone to a PA, I'm not sure what shape I'd be in. I think, for what it's worth, you should go there. Basically, it's just not fair to you that he's planning this. Who knows, maybe you'll stop something before it starts. Refresh my memory...is she married? If so, maybe you and hubby could go together. It's so tragic the way this all plays out. Protect yourself. If it gets ugly, too bad. It's not like YOU are having the affair. Always remember...YOU are not doing anything wrong.

Yeah, no doubt in my mind this is a PA. In his mind, though, (fog aside or maybe this is part of the fog) since he told me he wants a divorce and retained an attorney for a divorce, he believes he can live his life as if he is single.

She is married - but I don't know their story - I mean, I can guess that it's not good, but I haven't been able to get in contact with him yet to see if he even cares enough...

I guess with the "getting ugly" part - I feel that there is a fine line before it crosses over to LBs. In the situations of affairs, do things play out differently - I mean it's not like because there's an affair, there wouldn't be major withdrawals from the love bank right? Or is that just part of the process - better to have those withdrawals because of the fog and possibly save the marriage than sit back and do nothing?

What is your plan, Spin. Do you want to save the M? Are you in Plan-A? If so, read up on it and do it right. Exposure is the stick part of Plan-A. Expose to OW's BH today. Your WH will be angry but it may be your only hope.

I pray that some of the Plan-A /exposure experts will be along soon to help you. Why don't you repost on GQ. It gets alot more traffic.

God's Blessings,

Say

Yes, I want to save my marriage. I read a little bit about Plans A & B. I have not asked WH to stop contact with her (d-day was Monday). The most I did was text message him last night/early this morning saying I love you and forgive you. I guess I'm confused on what my plan should be. I want to save this, but don't know how when WH is so dead set on divorce and finding happiness with OW. I know these are common themes with all waywards.

Oh, H has read a little bit of the MB principles and doesn't agree with POJA so it's like I'm banging my head against the wall and no matter what efforts I make they will be for naught...but I'm still willing to make the efforts. Thank you Say.