I hope it works out for you. If you stick to your guns & do as you've said you will, I think you're taking the best course of action.

I think it's a very good sign that you are willing to head straight for plan D if she blows you off. If she does, it's probably what she wants, anyway. I think too many BSs tend to cling to a situation that is beyond repair.

If you D, you will look back on these times and consider yourself lucky that you moved on.

Never underestimate the power that a man has over a woman when he respects himself enough to respectfully stand up to her.

POWERFUL stuff.

I disagree with Dr. Harley or anyone else in the world who shares such an opinion.

Once an affair is officially "outed", and both spouses know it, I think a WS should be given ONE CHANCE to throw the AP under the bus COMPLETELY, the first time the BS asks.

WHENEVER the BS wants. Not 4 months after. Not 4 days after. I mean 10 seconds after, if that is what the BS desires.

Opinions vary, but I think any WS that chooses the OP, or hems and haws about who to choose, ought to find themselves divorced a.s.a.p.

Her biggest emotional needs (as I believe them to be right now)

1) Conversation - she's in TX basically by herself. I'm not the most talkative person... But, I try to talk to her. Sometimes she's willing to talk, other times, she'd rather watch TV. Given our recent phone conversations, they haven't been the greatest, yet she KEEPS TALKING to me even when she says she "doesn't have time for this". I found that humerous, as if it were any other time, she'd have just hung up on me. There have been times where she has called when I'm at work late, and I've blasted out at her. Since she's been gone, I look forward to her calls, and text messages. They no longer annoy me, like they once did.

2) Financial support - again, she's moved half-way across the country. Before she left, I got into a crappy situation with our finances as some things cleared the account that I didn't know were out there (checks, etc.) that put me at a negative balance. I was going to give her about $400 to start her journey, and couldn't. I felt horrible, and she felt let down. She (according to what she tells me) won't have a full paycheck for two weeks...

3) Admiration - She loves to be noticed. She loves to know how great she looks. She was sending me pictures of herself in new outfits, skirts and stuff that she hardly ever wore. I told her how great she looked, how I wished that she wore skirts more often, because she looks very elegant in them... I've got flowers arranged to be delivered tomorrow.

4) Affection - not the touching kind, but the "telling" kind. I can't remember how many times in the past two weeks I've told her that I AM COMMITTED to making this marriage work. I told her that despite what she's put me through, I'm willing to forgive her (it's not just going to come easy). I am the more touchy-feely kind of person, and always hug her, or touch her when I see her, but she doesn't appreciate that as much.

5) Physical attractiveness - She's told me that I'm not the most attractive person. It's true, I admit it. I promised her before our wedding I'd lose weight, but didn't meet my goals. Since she's been gone, I'm 15 lbs. lighter. I've been working out twice a day, eating less. I'm at a weight now less than I was on our wedding day. I haven't been at this weight for a long time... My goal is to lose another 15 lbs.

6) Connectiveness to God - I guess this falls under recreational companionship, but I'm giving it a category all of it's own. Believe it or not, we have been talking for the last two years about this, actually probably longer. She wanted to start going to church. I told her that I'd love to... Mr. W made me realize, she wanted me to find a church. She wanted me to guide her to the church... She just never said it. I went on Sunday. I told her, and I'm sure she took notice. I wish she could have been with me on Sunday, because she would have loved it.

Have I taken our relationship for granted? Yes, I have at times. I believe she has as well... Marriages are a two-way street. Sometimes you're both going the same way, sometimes you're both going different ways. We just need to get back in the same car, and start heading the same direction.

Whatever the outcome, I believe in everything I've read in HNHN. I honestly think it will help at least 80% of our problems. We both have personal issues to deal with, but we need to work together on ourselves first, so we can be that support system for each other because the personal stuff isn't going to come easy.

Also,

About sticking up for myself... She will totally dig that, I'm assuming.

I once told her a story of a guy that I played hockey with who ripped into me about something or other. I let him talk this and that, and never gave anything back to him. I just took it, and let it go.

She thought that I had no self-respect, which could have been true in that case. I always regretted not talking back at him... She never wanted anyone to walk all over me again. I don't think it has happened since.

Back to the ENs that I'm not providing to her, that OM has... I'm not quite sure.

I know they worked out together at their office place... So, I'd say Rec. Companionship is important right now.

They've obviously spent hours upon hours talking... So communication is big.

Besides that, I don't know more about their relationship. I need to fill in the voids that he filled.... There may be some admiration on his part, so that needs to be addressed as well...

By the pictures I've seen of OM - I'm positive he doesn't meet her physical attractiveness needs.

I think she's still attached to me for:

1) financial support
2) affection
3) family commitment
4) honesty and openness

Of course, I could be completely wrong about what her current needs are. It surely warrants discussion with her.

K71:

BH75 can give his WW all the ultimatiums on the phone he wants. It just distracts from the goal. To TALK to her.

When he is in person, in TX, face to face, he can demonstate and back up, his ultimatiums. "After this weekend, I walk out this apt door, and your not committed to this M, I never come back, so choose, now."

Also, it gets real easy for the WW to AGREE to anything that a BS wants to force on them. Especially if they know in two days the BS is getting on an airplane and they can "play" again.

And that's a hypothetical bus. Many WW's have thrown the OP under the bus on D-day, but just kept on contacting them afterward.

The goal, is to get the WW to talk to the BS.

LG

BH:

Do the conversation thing. You can MAKE that happen. OM Has no advantage, because he is 1,500 miles away also. But, WW DOES want to talk to him. That's the big kicker right now.

Remember, talk to her tonight. And, Listen, Listen, Listen.

That goes along way to helping you in your goal of ending the A and moving towards recovery.

LG

piecing together bits and pieces here:

Did I read correctly that om said he was told your W is divorced?

Did I read correctly that she wanted communications 'protected' lest they end up as part of legal stuff?

If those are correct, someone may be lying.

That's correct,

I believe marshmallow noticed that little discrepancy...

I sent OM and e-mail stating that fact and copied his father and WW.

Just talked with WW...

Conversation started out just fine. We talked about her day at work, how things are going with her new boss, etc...

Then, she tried to lay out how we are to fix our marriage...

She said that she had a list as long as her arm about the things in our marriage that are "bad", but she was also considering the "good" parts of our marriage. She said she's willing to work things out, but it's going to be on "her terms"...

Her terms:

1) We must start reconciling immediately
2) I must move to Austin, and find my own place, we are not living together
3) She can keep talking to OM, and continue any relationship that she wants with him, he is her friend

I told her straight up, things will not be on her terms. If and when I move down there, we will be living together. She must end all contact with OM, immediately, and forever.

She's still hooked on OM, and I believe they are still in contact.

I told her I am flying down there this weekend. She can either meet with me and we can start fixing our marriage, or I will file for divorce when I get home.

She hung up, and texted me back immediately:


I replied: "I will call you when I get into town this weekend. If you do not meet with me, and spend the weekend with me, I am filing for divorce when I return to MI. We will never reconcile while u r talking to OM. Your relationship with OM must end immediately, no calls, no texts, no e-mails, etc. It is your choice.

She replied:


I replied: "I am not demanding anything. I am giving you a choice. Meet me when I come down and we start working towards fixing our marriage or I leave and file for divorce when I return."

Her reply


I finally responded: "You can tell me this weekend."

BTW, I spoke with WW's best friend. She was shocked, appalled, and SHE felt betrayed by this whole situation. She took everything I said to heart, and can't believe what WW has done. She felt sorry for both of us, and plans to call WW tomorrow. As far as I know, WW and WW's BF have not talked this evening.

She just sent this:


This one I find humorous.

This one is good too:

Well done!!!

Beautifully executed!

Don't think she was expecting that from you.

LOL

Oh that's rich!!!

BTW: I think she'll meet w/ you this weekend.

She is just finding out that WW's BF and aunt have been talked to.

I have brought shame into our relationship, and what I have done is unacceptable in her eyes.


I told her that I was seeking help from her family and friends that are closest to her. I told her that I find no shame in that. And I am sorry that she feels ashamed.


You guys were right, this is a real s#1t storm. I am sure that she is not happy now.

I just keep re-iterating that I will call her upon arrival this weekend, and she can either choose to meet me, or not.

Oddly enough... I think you are right...


That comment is directed towards Dr. Harley... Apparently OM forwarded her the message

I can only imagine what's going on in her head right now... I know this isn't easy on her. Her roommate will have a lot to deal with tonight.

I am staying steadfast... she either meets me, and we reconcile on MY terms, or it's divorce time when I get back.

Hang in there. You're doing the best thing you can do - keep repeating one phrase and don't get sucked into any conversation - it's all bs at this point. And spend the next few days rereading all the material here so it'll come to you when you need it. Great job!

I think I mentioned earlier, that I think she is trying to GET you to file first, or at least declare first, so that she can have a guilt-free weekend. So IMO, keep reminding her that any divorce steps are on HER shoulders, not yours.

IF she meets you and decides to come back, I do not believe this will be close to an ideal situation. As Dr. Harley clearly pointed out, you will most likely live a lifetime of drama with this woman.

I still suggest heeding those words...although I like your style in how you are handling this. It's about time we are seeing a ballsy BH on these boards.

You're doing great!

But, it IS time for you to change the title of this thread!

Do it now!