Boogy, This might seem a little harsh but maybe MEDC isnt blunt enough.

If you think you feel "slimey" in your mind now (just about the snooping) I'd hate for you to feel something slimey from something else.

<nervously looking around for glares and then continues>

Boogy, I know this has already been said but it needs to be repeated.

You need to snoop.
You need to get answers.

I know, I know what its like to think "we're inseperable", "we'd die for each other", "its us against the world"... You really want to make it all go away... you want to tell yourself its just your imagination...


Boogy, your here, probably by search engine. You used keywords that obviously pointed you here. Your gut is telling you something and we're trying to let you know we've all been through it. We can help but you need to take your balls out of your wifes purse, apply the MB principles, you've identified the symptoms, its time for a diagnosis, and then treatment.

Boogy - PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!

I have just gone through a very similar situation with my F(hopefully!)WW.

I was weak and afraid, too, but these wonderful people and this deceptively extraordinary web site saved my sanity, my self-esteem and very likely my marriage.

For your family's sake, please take action as you have been advised here by the veteran experts!

The affair has been stopped and we are now working on rebuilding our marriage. You can, too, but you need to step up and take action! Six to twelve months from now you will be typing as I am right now to try and help someone just like I am now, BUT YOU MUST ACT NOW!!

One lesson I can impart to you right now even though I am but a mere rookie here:

LOSE THE BLIND TRUST TODAY! She'll need to earn it, just as you should have to earn it.

The strength to act is within you - you can do this! Just take that first step and you will be amazed!

My marriage and I are living proof...

Could someone more experienced give Boogy a full run down on what the affair 'fog' is.

He continually doesn't accept snooping because he continues to see his wife as the person he married. What he doesn't realize is that the affair addiction has taken over and she no longer is following her moral path.

I know I've heard other posters talk even scientifically about the brain chemistry that happens to 'fogged' waywards. Maybe someone else can explain that better. I believe I've heard Starfish talk about this before.

I think Boogy needs to realize that he isn't dealing with his wife anymore and he needs to bust her from her addiction so that she can begin recovering.

Boogy once you bust her addiction and she is removed from the fog you two can work together on how to affair proof your M. But for now you need to help her hit her bottom. Which means finding out the truth and then exposing and busting up the affair.

Boogy,

I'm in a bit of a foul mood today, but at this point in my life, I would've walked right up to "Dave", grabbed him by his shirt, and said, "If I find out you've so much as touched my wife, I'll f_cking kill you."


Some punk kid with an enraged husband in his face, embarrassing him? He'd p!ss all over himself.

Oh, and Boogy...

She's already sleeping with him. Accept it now for your own sake.

Is this coach's brother?

Boogy suspects his W is a WW.

Boogy refuses to dig for evidence to clear or confirm that his W is having an affair based on his crazy sense of principles.
His reasons make no sense at all.

I have seen BH's suspect something was going on. Want to deny that their W was WW. But they could not deny their gut feelings and had to find out the truth. Unable to think of ways to find out the truth on their own. Needing suggestions about gathering evidence. Which many MBer's willing shared. Then they set off on their quest.

Boogy refuses to find out the truth. He avoids doing anything that would reveal the truth.

Hi Boogy:
I know this is a confusing and painful time for you but all here can relate with you because we've been in the same place.
You look at your wife and you see the woman you married. Your soulmate. Your friend and confidant, but in reality, this person is a "drug addict" right now. No, she's not under the influence of street drugs or alcohol but under the influence of dopamine, PEA (a chemical in chocolate that gives you a "high") and norepherine (spelling?).
When a person is in an infatuation with another person, their brain produces these chemicals and the chemicals flood their system. They experience a feeling of euphoria. They become addicted to this sensation and will do anything to keep the "high" going whether it be lying, or actions. They REALLY have no control over their "need" for the high. They will look you in the eye and lie thru their teeth to protect the object of their high. It is confusing for the spouse to watch. We blame ourselves and tell ourselves "this can not be happening". But...our spouse is an addict! Like any recovery from a drug addiction, there are programs that can assist and this website is the perfect place to assist you in recovering your marriage but you need to follow the program to the letter. The vets here have seen it all and are your best guides to steps to recover. They will not lead you astray.
Below is an article I found regarding addictions to love. You can "google" the subject and there are more articles available on this subject. They can be found on many psych sites. That's the reason some people bounce from relationship to relationship. They do it to keep the "high".
Stay strong and we ARE all pulling for you.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/3680/addicted_to_love_a_biochemical_reaction.html?cat=41

transferred from other area...

I disagree that she's DEFINATELY engaged in a physical affair. But, be sure that she's most likely headed that direction. My H had a several month long EA that began as a simple crush and escalated into her basically stalking him. He, being stupid and weak, did nothing very strong to send her packing. Now, many months later I still struggle with the rebuilding phase. We were always "that" couple. Our friends and family were so sure we would break the mold. So, here I sit...I'm broken all right. And, it's the same. They work at the same company. Fortunately, he transferred her to another boss and has now switched buildings himself. But, I need 5-7 states between them before I feel safe.
This weekend I learned an important lesson...for this to work, most of the work has to be done by ME. Yes, he has to be 100% committed to our marriage and he has to make many, many concessions, but really the tough job is mine. I have to forgive, I have to forget, I have to 'get past this', as he says. It's all a process. One that you will NOT be able to begin until she admits to the truth about what is going on and stops it completely. This will be the hardest part. You will not understand how she says she loves you but acts like she cares about herself and him more. You will hurt, you will lose weight, you will feel sick and nervous. BUT, if you love each other and you can weather the toughest storm ever, you will prevail. Please, talk to her. Hey, maybe talk to him. I did...it did not do any good, but it made me feel better. Do some snooping but don't show all of your cards. It's time for you to be the smart one here.

transferred from other area...

Boogy,
You will be able to trust her again! It will take a very long time but it is possible. Honestly, I'm not there yet completely, but my husband works daily to put me at ease. As for your wife, you have to understand she is not herself right now. Remember the 'high' you had in the beginning when you first met her? Remember how you just HAD to be with her every moment? This is what she's feeling right now with OM. Not because she does not love you, but because she's posessed by her ego. You're a comfortable old shoe and he's a beautiful pump (high heels). She wants desperately to wear the pump, but when he feet begin to hurt she goes back to the comfortable shoe. I know it seems weird to be characterized that way, but it's really not a bad thing. She'll wear that shoe as long as she can, but the comfort is where it's at. You need to show her that home is where she needs to be. You need to be her rock. But, don't be stupid. Collect information, do some research. Learn about what she's doing and who she's doing it with. You have to be very cautious and diligent. Trust me, she's not intending to trash your marriage, but you have no idea what BS he's feeding her. He probably told her you leered at him during the recent work outing. If there has not been any physical contact, you can pull her back from the edge. Trust me, it will hurt and she will test your love. She will also take advantage of her comfort with you as her husband. Do some reading...research Plan A and put it to use. Modify what you have to to suit your situation. You sound like a man who dearly loves his wife and best friend. Now, she needs to know how committed you are. And, DO NOT LEAVE your house. It's absolutely necessary that you cement yourself right there and go nowhere!!! Good luck...we'll talk more tomorrow.

There's not much to say that has not already been said. It does not seem like he has read this site. He is asking for an alternative set of answers as he does not like the advice he has been given. He is protecting his child from daycare, but his and his wayward wife's schedules have set up a perfect scenario for an EA that has either turned PA or will likely turn PA at any moment.

He is concerned about using what might be called Policy of Joint Agreement with a wayward wife who is firmly entrenched in lies and deceit due to her involvement with another man.

She has detached herself from the family life and is going out with her friends while her H and baby sit at home. I wonder what is going on in that home with the wayward wife and that baby while he is at work? Is his wife engaged in play with that baby?, or is she busy texting and e-mailing the OM. Sure, a baby/toddler sleeps a lot. What's going on though?

But don't worry, he'll just wait for the affair to get more blatent while he is waiting for the wayward wife to come to her senses on her own. Then, he can deal with the consequences of a wayward wife telling him that she loves him but she is not in love with him and wants him to leave the house so she can consort with OM.

I guess in his mind, that is more noble than finding out the truth by snooping.

I also wonder about her state of mind considering the baby is only 5 months old. This is prime time for a woman to feel un-beautiful and horomonal. Both of them have to come to terms with the missing link...he's not going to be able to do this alone. But, without the drive to PUSH, the troubles will stagnate. Or, the affair will explode. It's almost like watching a train wreck.

Boogy:

Your WW is living a "friends" scenario.....

Working at the bookstore, sharing cappachinos with her friends...

Store closes at midnight, and I don't have to be home until ????

Then the Nerdy guy Ross starts really liking your WW.

He isn't tough enough to just walk up and ask for it, it takes time. That's the "putty" that your WW's GF talked about.

Now that she has started to respond to him, he is "putty" She can mold him into anything she wants.

And she has. It may still only be a EA. Your WW may not understand the distinction between EA and "Just Friends". But you do. She has slipped down that slippery slope until she ended up alot deeper than she thought.

I believe that if it went PA, it only happened recently. Previously, the "group" from the store would get together after work and hang out and it was "amusing" to watch the puppy dog look on OM and how they acted together. "It's CUTE" to this younger crowd, schooled by MTV and "Friends" reruns, that the choices you make have no consequesnces because we all start over at square one NEXT week.

So start snooping and finding out WHAT is going on.

Time for your WW to find a NEW job.

Daycare for your son is a lot better than a turnstile "boyfriend" of the month if you two divorce.

You can "force" the truth from your WW. She will only admit to what she KNOW you KNOW. So snoop.

And yes, you think that she should be "honest" with you. Why would someone who is stealing from you and then you make no effort to determine how they are stealing from you stop that behavior?

And yes, your WW only needs 15-30 minutes extra every night to have a very serious PA relationship. Its amazing what you can do in the dark if you can't go home....

LG

Boogy...

I am a FWW...While in the affair, I acted EXACTLY like a crack addict where OM was concerned. ANYTHING to get a FIX. Have you ever known a crack addict (or any drug addict) who would voluntarily tell the police that they were indeed a crack addict? The anwser of course is "NO"...Why do you think that is? Because the police would try and take the crack away of course!!! An addict does NOT want to lose their drug, even when they KNOW it is harmful and wrong...It is NO different for an active wayward Boogy...REALLY...TRULY...SERIOUSLY...

Boogy, I am 100% back in my marriage...It means more to me than I have words to express...My husband and my mother worked together to save me from myself by breaking up the affair...GETTING ME AWAY FROM THE "DRUG"/OM...My husband, Mr. W, snooped like a madman...I am GRATEFUL Boogy...He read my email...He recorded phone conversations...He did what he had to do...My actions forced his hand...There was no way he was gonna lay down and let an "addict" destroy his family...He ACTED from a position of STRENGTH as the head of our household...Boogy, he SAVED me...He is MY HERO...He acted as my HUSBAND...I am AWED by him...I RESPECT him...I ADORE him...

It's no different than if your wife was lying on the floor of a crack house Boogy...Would you feel like her sobriety wasn't worth it if she needed help from you to get there? Needed you to do an intervention for her? Or would her sobriety be valuable no matter how she got there? See Boogy, when she gets away from this addiction, she will THANK YOU a million times over for helping her...You will become to her everything that Mr. W is to me now...You will be her HERO...Boogy, you must ACT from STRENGTH right now for your wife and son...You MUST MAN-UP...What you are trying to peddle here is nothing more than conflict avoidance dressed up to look like some bizarre form of altruism...It's NOT attractive Boogy and will not serve your family well...Stop enabling this affair addiction and ACT!!!

And Boogy, you WILL be able to trust her once more...When the addiction is under control and your real wife is back, a truly FWS, she will go to the ends of the earth to earn your trust again. I know that is what I have done...I have volunteered to have a keylogger on my computer...I have volunteered to have a GPS put on my car...I've volunteered to take a polygraph...I've given ALL passwords to Mr. W...There is NOTHING that I don't tell him...We are both 100% transparent with each other...Our marriage is better now than it's ever been...Not because of the affair, but in spite of it...

Boogy, affairs THRIVE in darkness and secrecy and they CRUMBLE in the light of day...Will you bring the light and truth to this situation? Will you be the HERO for your family Boogy?

I pray that you will heed what everyone is telling you here for the sake of your precious family...

Mrs. W

P.S. Another benefit of snooping to the BS is what it does for recovery...It enables the BS to see firsthand just how ludicrous and fake the affair really is...Just how much the WS LIES to the OP to get their fix...It is very helpful for you to see those things for yourself...

P.S.S. Boogy, it also may be helpful for you to google +PEA +affairs...Read about what goes on chemically in the brain of a WS...I think you might find that to be enlightening...

Btw, Boogy your conflicting schedules has been your downfall here...You guys don't see each other enough to remain "in love" by meeting the emotional needs of the other...

It is FAR more important to your son that you and your wife have happy and fulfilling marriage...It is CRITICAL for him to have parents who are in love with each other and giving him a proper model of what marriage is supposed to be...All the daycare in the world will not damage him like having the two of you divorce will...

Think about it...

Mrs. W

I have no idea if this will help at all but...

My FWH had an EA with a coworker.

I knew something was wrong. Despite my pleas to tell me what was wrong, he denied there was a problem.

My sister told me to SNOOP and I would not listen.

Once I finally could not deny our M was in the danger zone any longer, I SNOOPED. I found out about his EA and other things.

Almost everything I found out was only because I snooped. Because he was a foggy space cadet, he wouldn't tell me anything. This was not my H.

You are not dealing with your WIFE, please understand this. Once the fog takes over, you are not dealing with a rational person anymore.

If I had not SNOOPED, our M would be over.

Snooping is Step One to recovering your M. You won't be able to move on to the other steps until you have some concrete proof of what is going on because she will continue to DENY it like my H was and would have.

You are lucky because you have really great people posting to you to help you through the steps. You have a real chance at saving your M if you stick to the MB Plan.

Good luck!!!

ps...about the trust...(borrowing MelodyLane's analogy) worrying about trust at this point is like worrying about peeling paint on the Titanic when it is sinking. The ship is sinking. Don't worry about the peeling paint right now.

Boogy,

You asked this earlier, and I will answer it now. You obviously don't understand the dynamics of affairs. Your WW is ADDICTED to the conversation and attention OM is showering on her. She may have thought there was no harm to it at first, but she allowed OM to meet her ENs, and now she is addicted. Right now I bet she feels pretty conflicted deep down (she won't let you know) about what she is doing, but she can't stop herself. Affairs are like addictions.

Let me ask you this. If you said, "What's the point of forcing a drug addict into rehab?", the point is getting them to withdraw from the drugs and be tought new habits so they doesn't slide into addiction again. Trust me, your WW will probably be a MUCH different person if she has NC with OM and starts going to MC w/ you. Then later on, you won't have to force the truth out of her, and you won't even feel a need to because you know she is being truthful.

As far as feeling slimy about spying, your priorities need to be adjusted. You would rather continue to let her screw around on you, possibly exposing you to a number of diseases, and walk all over you just because you don't feel it is right to spy. Let's put it this way: If you started screwing someone else, isn't it her right to find out the truth. You see, she won't be truthful because she want you AND OM. You need to snoop to find to truth and then expose her to the consequences of her actions. Otherwise, you are just giving her carte blanche to continue screwing around on you because she knows you'll never take the steps to find out. Don't think that this problem will just go away when you move. She may be so addicted to OM that she won't move, or she'll continue to visit her "friends" back where she used to live and hook up w/ OM several times a year. Is that what you want?

Hire the PI, find out the truth, and then decide what to do knowing the truth. You aren't going to get the truth out of your wife. If you don't want to spy on her, then I would suggest going ahead with a divorce. Right now, I guarantee she is screwing around on you, so I would take steps to protect yourself.

BOOGSTER!

This thread is on FIRE with the good folks here grabbing you by the shirt and shaking the shirt out of you. And trying to shake some sense in.

How about some OTHER ways to snoop. Get a GPS gizmo and hide it in her car. See exactly where she goes after work.

Also a voice activated recorder in her car, might be very revealing, specially if they sit in her car after work, "talking".

If your wife was addicted to say, meth. And you suspected that she was because she was acting different and lying to you and getting angry if you questioned her about it.

Would you then remain passive because she would not be forthright and honest with you and confess that she was a tweaker? Would you just watch her get thinner and acne scarred and go psycho because of snoop revulsion? Or would you confront her, have an intervention, or do anything possible to save her from herself?

Kinda the same dealio. You must come to the decision to face reality.

IMHO

kirk

We had the big talk last night until around 3AM. Some things came out that I already knew. I had quite a large amount of information that I couldn't post here in case she found it, and admittedly some of the posts here were for her viewing should she see them.

In any event, we managed to work a lot of things out, agree to serious transparency, and move forward.

In truth, I had been doing some snooping. A lot of it, so I knew more than what I was telling you guys. I simply left this forum up so that when she came home, she might see it, which I think she did. She read that I hadn't been snooping and blah blah etc etc. Nice little ruse. I didn't want to play all of my cards, and this forum was part of my strategy. In other words, I wanted her to read that I hadn't been snooping and that I wouldn't. She found the forum as I had wanted her to, and I was able to find out what I already knew and then some based on my responses to you guys here. I hope that makes sense.

In any event, I had a half dozen emails or so between her and the facilitator friend. The background on the facilitator friend is this: She's had a crush on a guy for a long time (she's married as well) that has developed into full blown love for him, but has never gone physical. There are tons of one way emails from the friend to my wife, and the only response my wife ever gave to her was that the friend was being stupid and should stop hanging out with him, even as just a friend.

There were a lot of emails back and forth from my wife to her facilitator friend with my wife lamenting how much trouble this has caused inn our marriage. One of the last emails she wrote said to the effect, "I've caused all of this drama because I lied to him about something that if I had just told him about in the beginning, we both would probably have laughed about." That's probably true. No one should expect that they should get married and never have feelings for someone ever again. Its the act of discussing with it friends and dwelling on it and making an effort to be close to that person that takes it to the next level.

In any event, we talked a lot last night. There was no fighting, no yelling, no denial. This was a pretty short lived crush that she tried to cover up that was over well before I actually found the email. I found the email in May of last year, and it was actually written in December of the previous year.

So we're resolved, as I said to absolute transparency. She's agreed that this facilitator friend is probably not the best person to be hanging out with, and that she isn't going out with her work friends alone anymore. We never had any missing time or "how come it took you so long to get home from work?" None of that. I work for myself, and usually pretty close to home, and I'm prone to dropping in to say hello, drop in with lunch for us, and coming home at all different hours.

Thanks much for all of the advice here. Sorry I had to deceive you guys in a small way to accomplish my goals with my wife, but of course I'm sure you all understand. I'd say that apart fro the healing and regaining the trust, we're on the road to recovery ourselves.

I think this thread was a terrible waste of resources.

Shame on you Boogy....for stealing what could have been given to other posters in need....all to trick your wife into thinking you are something you are not.

What a swell upstanding *honest* guy YOU turned out to be.

Sounds like you have it all figured out now...

When the time comes that you realize you need more help, you may want to actually read through the MB concepts so that you can figure out why your M is in this state.

Honestly, I think your M is in a lot more trouble than I originally thought after reading through your last post despite the fact that you think you are in "recovery".

Good Luck.