I find it offensive to even suggest that God, or faith in God, is in any way an answer to the problems of a betrayed spouse. It's bad advice, plain and simple. You're fighting one type of fog with another.

If God is our creator, he either intentionally designed in, or intentionally overlooked, the flaw in EVERY SINGLE WS that is causing our pain now.

How many times do you have to read about the "good Christian mom/dad who strayed" before you begin to understand that faith is neither a preventative measure or a cure for infidelity?


I hope that BH continues to rely on himself; He's the only one he can truly depend on right now.

I agree, Riv:

Please don't lock this thread. I'll gladly take my NON-bashing 2 another thread, if there is one.

-ol' 2long

since when did YOU become the keeper of good advice???? You can't see past your own rage.

2Long, I do not think you were bashing. While you do not agree with religion...you certainly are respectful in the delivery of your views.

I'm every bit as qualified as you are to give advice, and being blinded by faith leaves you as sightless as being blinded by rage.

I thought you were just angry Krazy...immaturity seems to have a good hold of you too. There are some people blinded by faith for sure...others are too blind to see anything.

You've become a very angry young man Krazy. That is sad.

There has got to be a secret Christian Academy somewhere that teaches believers how to deal with non-believers.

Yeah, I must be "immature and angry" if I voice displeasure with your god.


Christian Gaslighting...is that distributed by the same publisher as the WS Handbook?

Krazy, you must have me confused with someone else...I am very far removed from judging others about their religious choices...in fact, I have gotten a hard time from other Christians here for suggesting some liberal views regarding salvation. What I see as immature is your slamming other people for their beliefs.

As far as your anger goes...well, I think that speaks for itself.

There is a big difference between slamming someone's belief's, and simply stating things they don't want to hear.

If they chime in with a 2,000 word religious diatribe, others should be allowed to offer an opposing viewpoint.

Oh, so your purpose was to convince the poster or the thread owner that leaning on God is a bad thing.

You have a lot of growing up to do. Emotional maturity added to your intellect would benefit you greatly.

May I ask what? Is that the 'faith versus works' debate I see around here sometimes?

You cannot or will not support your stance, you only hurl insults in an attempt to make yourself seem more intellectually and emotionally mature. You may not be a "typical" Christian, but you sure know how to use classic Christian debating tactics.

Am I actually wrong about something, or did I just irritate you?

well, yes..you are wrong. You make a ridiculous statement about a child only being dead for three days...blah, blah, blah. Do you have children? I would think not with that attitude. NOTHING could be remotely worse...NOTHING...than watching a child suffer the kind of torture that Christ endured.

And Krazy...standing next to you...it is not difficult for one to appear "more emotionally mature."

Someone asked me where I differ...

I have issues with quite a few things in Scripture(King David IMO is a dirt bag and I am left to wonder how he is a man that God tolerates much less loves with a passion) as well as those that think they have all the answers and hound people in a legalistic fashion. I happen to think that people like 2Long and Myschae are very good people(even when I disagree with them) and that a persons actions and good works go a long way towards their salvation(as I believe those works are a reflection of the heart). I even think that Krazy is a good person...he is just so angry right now, he can't see past that.

David repented from his sins.

EXACTLY ... we non-believers have to endure multiple posts from certain individuals DAILY, but let someone question them about how well their faith has served them, and all he!! breaks loose.

Some are suggesting that Krazy needs to mature ... I see it just the opposite. I think Krazy has considered his position and is comfortable with where he stands. It's the rest that seem to be hypocritical in their pretzel logic of how GOD can lead them home, but was no where around when they were going astray.

As a BH attempting to recover a M touched by infidelity, I understand that the ONLY person I can count on is ME. I have a close friend who knows about my situation, and FogFree is doing as good, if not a better job than any FWW here, but when it comes right down to it ... I have to look to ME to maintain MY own sanity and move forward. Sometimes I do pretty well, and other times the bitterness takes over, but in the end, its up to ME to pull myself through.

We talk and talk and talk about making waywards take responsibility for their own actions, and then in the same breath turn around and tell the betrayed to turn their own lives "over to God" ... kind of like little tin men looking to the all powerful OZ to heal their broken hearts.

"Well Oz didn't give nothing to the tin man, that he didn't already have.", and the same goes for me and every other BH here.

Maybe that song quote is what the "best" Christians would say as well. That God didn't give the BS a means 2 recover from infidelity that they didn't already possess. He just made them aware. And the free will part is where the BS takes responsibility for their own choices, lets the WS do the same, and 2rns the horror of the affair in2 an oppor2nity for spiri2al growth.

All that from a non-Christian perspective! ;oD

-ol' 2long

That bunch of load gives the WS permission to carry on and repeat.

The thing is, that no one was purposely trying to change YOUR mind about YOUR belief's when they posted to Sundevil.

If "certain indiduals" are posting to YOU, then I say have at it...provided you're not thread jacking another poster's thread to do it.

medc, that may be your perspective.

From my perspective the exact same thing could easily be said for "anti-Christian" talk too.

Thankfully, neither you nor I are the real judge. We are participants in an open forum with a plethora of views.

But it does seem a bit disingenuous for those "anti-faith" types to be so vehement on BH's thread when he stated that he believes that both he and his wife are believers, even if they have not been living as believers.

I'm sorry, Krazy, I missed the part about where you explained how evolution evolved these flaws and why they only exist in Wayward Spouses. You mean that NONE of us is "responsible for our own actions and choices?" We were either "intentionally designed" (an oximoron) by "nature's random accidents" or "intentionally overlooked" by some "omnipotent natural selection process after we somehow mysteriously achieved life from non-living matter?"

"If God ISN'T our creator, then Nature either intentionally designed in, or intentionally overlooked, the flaw in EVERY SINGLE WS that is causing our pain now."

Riiiiigggt. I'm buying your logic.

God neither "intentionally designed" in, nor "intentionally overlooked" the "flaw" (called SIN). In fact, despite our CHOICE, God provided the means to "correct the flaw" and allow people to choose FOR God again, without removing their ABILITY TO choose.

The "ball," so to speak, "is in our individual courts."

So let's not blame God for our own choices, eh.