Dismiss the first thing she said as fog babble as far as the "life partner" thing goes.

Waywards envision a world where you are happy to be friends only with them while they go and flaunt their new man in your face while she lives with your kids.

Yes, in their minds you will be content that she is so happy and that you have scraps of time with the children while another man lives with your wife and family.

Life is just grand as they picture it and there is no such thing as feelings on your part regarding the loss or the infidelity.

Ummm. Yeah.

Don't read into what she does, either. My exww went through a "lets go shopping for houses" thing when she was (and still is) fogged out.

So I found hope in the home shopping. I found hope in the dates we went on and her words.

Here is what you must get through your head:

Do not try to make sense of her actions while she is fogged out! She is an alien. She is a mental case who will say crazy crap one moment and then act in another way the next. The exorcist makes more sense than the behaviors of a fogged out wayward. Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

You see, they do things to ease your mind. They want to ease you down from the pain they are causing, but end up hurting you more because you are very understandably sitting there looking for signs of your real wife that is in there somewhere.

Guess what? You may never see that woman again.

In my mind my wife died while I was at war. I came home and have been dealing with her evil twin sister since. My real wife died and was replaced by a fogged out and entitled wayward.

So you can continue to drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the actions of a woman who is nuts, or you can accept that she is going to act nuts and simply ask her crazy questions of her own when she is acting nutty.

Example?

Want a cookie?

Do you know anyone who likes snapple?

Do you know the airspeed velocity of an unladed swallow?

Those questions make more sense than the words and actions of a wayward.

Don't focus on her, but focus on you. What can you do? What can YOU change?

That is all you can control because you certainly can't control her nor will you make any sense of her behavior.

She's crazy right now. Accept it.

Control what you can which is you, and your presence as a father.

pom,
Thanks for the reply. It is interesting that in the "life partner" discussion, she actually meant hanging around (together) until the kids are grown, which would be min 8 years. This was after she said maybe we should D to which I said I am not going anywhere - she didn't like that I would be putting her and the kids on the street. Hey, kids are more than welcome to stay, as is she - but the latter is her choice.

Fog is right, not to mention guilt... big time on the latter.

I am trying to live by the nothing of what you hear and half of what you see - it is the latter that most of the "signs" I mentioned earlier relate to.

ET phone home!

So I take it you have not exposed you wife's affair?

Things will remain as they are until you do.

You will be the parent.
You will finance her affair.
You will not have your emotional needs met.
You will bear all the burdens.

Your wife will have her cake and eat it too.

The OM will be having all his emotional and physical needs met by YOUR wife while you enable her to do so.

Sorry brother, only you can end this thing.

I forgot that you hadn't really exposed much.

I kept my entire family in the dark. I even went so far as to tell the family that I was separated when I was really divorced.

Why? I thought I was protecting whatever feelings of goodwill were left for her.

I shot myself in the foot. I cut off the one source of people that could have offered support and guidance and thought clearly for me.

You MUST expose. Get this out in the open. She's going to lose it.

But there are other men on this board who went through what you're going through now and things are 10 times better for them since they exposed. Some are in plan B, Some in A, some in the budding stages of recovery.

The actions you must take are counter intuitive. You must upset your wife in order to save your marriage. You must expose and bring the affair to light to make it end.

Secrecy will only allow cake eating and will ultimately just hurt you.

iam and pom,

Yes, hit me with whatever as I have not done any further exposure. I am planning on re-reading SAA this weekend to get back in the know (along with the comments from here).

The PA has stopped (due to distance between of 1500 mi and lack of time alone) but the EA may be continuing. Exposure, especially to D16 (now as opposed to D15 - need to change my sig) and MIL will devastate - but part of me still (wrongly?) thinks the threat of exposure to these is actually doing some good. WW is really becoming buddy buddy with D16, so am concerned more about D16 reaction - but she needs to know what is morally right and wrong (my view - thanks Dr Laura as well).

My first contact when I get into this will be OMS - since she called our place looking for info 4 weeks ago (WW took the call in the middle of the night).

Lost, I am sorry you have decided to continue to enable her affair by keeping her secret from the OMW. The "threat of exposure" apparently is not doing you any good if the affair is still on.

But if you refuse to help yourself, there isn't a thing we can do to help you, I am sorry.

You have a powerful weapon against the affair in your hands, and you refuse to use it because you are scared of your wife's anger, Lost. You should be more scared of what you face if you don't lift a finger to help yourself: DIVORCE. That is what you are facing as it is.

Launch the nuke, LOST. Get up and start doing something to stop the destruction of your marriage.

And what advantages have you seen thus far since the affair is still going strong? Wouldn't a greater advantage be for the affair to STOP?

An update - welcome comments or suggestions. Yes 2x4's, bricks, anything esle are expected.

OK, so today I am taking S13 out of town for a sporting event (all weekend). Originally, WW was to come but decided to stay home with D10. No problem. As I was prepping to leave, I mentioned that there was something planned in August and said it is a long ways off. WW says "so maybe by then I will know what you are doing?" Here is the convo:

Me: what do you mean?

WW: so you've forgotten our discussion?

Me: No, I remember all of our discussions.

WW: so am I supposed to assume your answer?

Me: No, I am here. I am not leaving.

WW: So when were you going to tell me?

Me: Not sure, likely this week (actually, since holiday, there has been no R discussion at all - am I supposed to bring it up?)

WW: So why would you want that?

Me: because I do not want out, want to see what we can make of this, do not want to disrupt our family life.

WW: so you know my conditions? There will be no intimacy.

Me: I understand what you said.

WW: Ok, as long as we understand.

Me: Are you ok with that?

WW: Yes. And no, I am not getting it elsewhere.

Me: I see. So how do you see this working?

WW: No time for that now. You need to go. (true enough)

The other thing that happened. We have two vehicles. A newer one that WW generally drives and an older one (only an 03) that I drive. Newer one is better on gas mileage and more roomy. I asked last night if WW minded if S13 and I took new vehicle - more room as likely would be a friend of S13 and his mom coming and better on gas. WW wanted to "clean newer vehicle this weekend". I said, we can help you do that next week - do you mind if we take it. WW response - whatever.

Well, when I packed new vehicle today, it was like I was stealing her toy. Got glared at and she is likely p'd off. My thinking - it was crowded as is, smaller vehicle would have been more crowded. Also - what the he*l, it is actually registered in my name. Something small to take a stand on and be firm. No more giving in to all her demands.

That is where we sit tonight. I have heard through others that WW is (i) ticked that OM has not come to her rescue a little more than he has, (ii) she is trying to "wait me out until I leave" and (iii) she is still full of guilt.

Thoughts? Is she still spewing the alien talk? Do I keep the process up? Give up (which I am in no way inclined to do)?

A little background (can't recall if I mentioned above and too lazy to check). In late Nov she accompanied me on a business trip. We held hands like teenagers (first time in don't know how long) and cuddled for what seemed like forever - nothing more, but it was wonderful. Then we had a blow up - I wanted to ML a week later but she did not have the connection she needed - I understood and said I would work on it because ILY. She said that is what she needed to hear. Then we went on late DEC holiday, she reconnected with old flame, and the rest is as described above. Old flame = EA = PA = our R in the sh**ter.

Any words of wisdom? Anyone been in the same boat? Looking for the glimmer of hope! I am not a quitter in this and am here for the long haul, but should I be?

"And then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free".

The "process" you describe is commonly known as ENABLEMENT and APPEASEMENT, not Marriage Builders. You can see how well it is working for you. It is not helping your marriage and it is causing your wife to lose all respect for you. Women do not love men they don't respect, Lost.

From this conversation, it appears you had once agreed to move out to give the WW some "space" and are not telling her you won't. But her condition is that there not be any intimacy, to which you raise absolutely no objection.


My friend, in order to "QUIT" you have to be doing something. You can't "quit" if you have never started.

Why won't you lift a finger to save your marriage?

Melody,

Sorry if it came across as I agreed to move out. I have never said I would (I said she should a couple times) and I will not. I have always said I am not going anywhere.

I have no sane / rational answer to your question. I guess my response to the no intimacy was a non-response. I understand her position is all I said. Somedays I want nothing to do with this evil person, other days not that way.

After a time away, I am back here. Still in the same messed up sitch. BUT Ww has basically now come and says she wants out.

I have, only this past week, contacted OMW. WW found out and was furious. She said A was over, they were getting M back together and I now wrecked it. WW was livid. Said she lost all respect for me, said I blew any chance with her, said I am out of control and acting out of revenge. Als said that my actions made her sick. All because I contacted OMW.

I will update more frequently, but am wondering if this reaction is normal / expected / etc?

Thanks to all for past and future support.

Yes, her reactions are textbook. Her words are by the script, verbatim.

Mon morning update.

I am heading to bed last night and just about crawl in (yes same bed as WW) and WW starts this:

WW - I can't believe you are sleeping in the same bed as me.

Me - well this is where I sleep.

WW - well I don't have to.

Me - no you don't.

WW - (still in bed) are you in f***ing denial? We are getting D.

Me - I heard you say that.

WW - do you have a plan?

Me - for what? I plan to go to sleep.

WW - do you have a plan for us?

Me - not really, maybe I should think of one.

Ww - and let me know please.

That's it - kept my calm I think. Nice end to the long weekend. I believe WW has appnt with L today. Suppose I should make one as well, just to be prepped.

How about plan A for a start?


The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Just to give you a better feel for what has been going on, WW went away on a trip June 17. Prior to her going, we had the best three consecutive days in the last few months - lots of laughing, conversation, family activities, etc. Even kissed me just before she left. She got back from her trip June 22 and dropped the B that she decided she wanted D.

She met some family friends while on her trip - had some discussions about our M issues, but her story of what friends said (that they understood, that she was right in her decision, etc) did not coincide with what friends told me. Also attended a self awareness course.

Some lines I heard when she came back:
- unhappy and don't want to live rest of my life like this

- no, I haven't found anything better (it is possible that she actually met up with OM while in her trip)

- you have to deal with that because your view can't have the kids in mind (when I said D is not an option for me with K's)

- what option are you giving me (when I said I have not changed view that I do not want out and am not leaving), yet I need to get on the same page as her (meaning look at splitting)

- do I want this to be amicable or dirty

- why didn't you come talk to me - you never do (I went for a drive after the convo when she got home and told me whe wanted out - yet she's the one who caused the cr*p in the first place).

That is about where we stand. Trying to keep the anger / reaction down, but difficult when getting assaulted with verbal warfare...

walkingthefield,

Thanks for the Plan A reminder. I have been trying the carrot but she is not too keen on anything from me. She thinks that I keep bring up the A and do not trust her and cannot possibly love her, etc etc. I keep the behaviors, but difficult to do.

The stick just started. I thought it was interesting that WW accuses me of breaking up OM M.

You need a huge stick!

God's Blessings,

Say

Say,
Sorry for being dense, but can you explain a little more?