Really don't know where to begin. I will say this, though I have had my wayward out breaks and am totally accountable for where this has put our marriage.

My bottom lines. . .

I used to have her undivided attention: not anymore

We used to have family time and us time: not anymore

There were never any boundaries or guidelines set for the house: still isn't.

I feel that I have had to change me to fit the family and me being of color was a problem. I was hurt when her children racially attacked me and called me names out of color. I felt that nothing ever came from that. Never received a apology for that. I have watched where I am, what I do and where I do it at for these kids and this family out of the sake of color. When I would ask her to set boundaries for the kids it would never happen. When they were in trouble at anytime I asked for boundaries, nothing. I ask for chore charts or something to give them some accountability, nothing.

This is not a poor me pity pat story. I am accountable for my actions and had freedom of choice and I have chosen poorly.
What I do feel like is this, I have worked hard and maintained a good job. I have provided for my family, I cook, clean, take the kids to their games or practices, yard work, wash clothes, cars.
I am not a single parent, I am married not asking for a lot and not getting it in return. Can you lay down some boundaries plain and simple, follow through on chores something. I feel that with this being a on going theme that I allowed myself to be caught up. I began to feel as if there were no rules for me, no boundaries. How could you for me and not your children. How could you allow them to talk and treat let alone me but, her in such a degrading, disrespectful way. Why did I have to continue doing all I could do for my family and not have them doing any return.

So now we are here, several ow's later still crying out for boundaries, mad because she want's them for me and nobody else.
Feeling like I am the only one having to be held accountable for all that I do, so we butt heads. It's not like she doesn't know my needs, we talk about our issues all the time. So now I have been in place where my response is that I am not until you do.
When we argue, I still get up go to work, come home to cooking cleaning, washing you names I don't stop doing that.

I don't stop loving her and asking her about her day at work, tending to her. I don't stop taking the kids to their places.
Why do you get to stop on me, or not even act for the benefit of this family. She's angry well, I am angry.

I will say this, I have done it what I have done. I own it whether the lie is lame or not at the time. Even through all this I get that it is still my choice. Which just points out my inability to control my emotional factor. It is what I respond off of and depending on the situation can be intense.

So yes, I have talked to ow's, never having any physical contact or ever seeing them anytime with the exception of two. Where one ow worked where I went to the store on a daily basis before heading out to the field and the other was one that I had been talking to well before I met my wife. I have watched and viewed porn off and on.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, it's a lot to tell and maybe not. There are always three sides of a story so maybe after seeing mine we can find truth somewhere lurking.

Dogo1

Dogo, welcome to MB! I am so glad that you're here. That is SO brave to come here, taking a chance when you don't know what the outcome will be. The MB plan saves marriages everyday, creating awesome marriages where you are both each other's favorite recreation partner, getting both of your top needs met. Creating a life of joy and happiness together, not sacrifice.

I am so excited for you two! You may not see it today, but OUC has so much love and respect for you. I don't know you, but I know you must be amazing for her to love you that much. We see her kind, loving nature a lot over here. Just imagine how cool it will be when you two are working together getting this back on track! You two are going to be UNSTOPPABLE!

Others will be by to help you two as you make your plan of what to do. What do you two like to do for Recreational Companionship together(RC)? What kinds of things did you two enjoy doing together when you were dating? Are those things that you two do or can do in the present?

I second that welcome. Thanks for coming here to tell your side.

We aren't here to judge between the two of you and we aren't here to determine whose "fault" it is. One thing that we are about, is that each of us is responsible for our own part, and that is all; we aren't responsible for the other person's behavior or for changing the other person.

I hear that you have a lot of things you feel angry and frustrated about. They sound like valid concerns to me, if that helps. That said, what can you do about these things? Some of the issues I see you mentioning:

Your need for UA. Can you work out a plan or schedule yourself, as a baby step toward starting to meet that need of yours, and ask her if she will agree to try it?

Can you agree to be H&O with her when you feel the need for UA, instead of looking outside the M for it?

Can *you* set boundaries as to what you will and will not accept in the way the children treat you? (It sounds like they are her biological kids but not yours, am I correct?)

I'm glad you are here.

First of all, do you understand why you need to be accountable? YOU ARE THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN CHEATING FOR YEARS!!!!! You need to be accountable to yourself as well as your wife. You are the one with the cheating problem. Seek the help you need to stop, and quit acting like a child and whining about the fact that you work and cook and clean. As long as you BOTH are working, you should BOTH be doing this--you aren't a saint just because you do your share around the house!

I see you talking a lot about your needs, and complaining that they aren't met. Do you understand that your wife not meeting your needs is NOT an excuse for adultery? You chose her to be your wife, and it is your responsibility to create your own boundaries and stick to them--no matter what is happening in the home. And do you see that you cheating on her since 2002 just MAY BE a HUGE part in her not meeting your needs? This has to be a team effort...not her dragging you along.

When I read your post, all I could see is a man-child still wanting to be given a set of rules and instructions on how to follow them. When you don't get what you want, you pout and fight and then go seek out OWs. Does this sound like the role of the "man of the house" to you? It certainly doesn't to ME!

My suggestion is to get yourself into a program for your issues with porn, OWs, etc, and start taking some resposibility for yourself NOW (and NOT after the fact when you've been caught). Once you PROVE to your wife that you are accountable for yourself and someone she should invest with further, then you can set your boundaries and tell her what it is about the M that doesn't work for you. But, this won't work until you've handled YOURSELF FIRST!

As far as the names that the children call you and the bad behavior, it doesn't sound to me like they have been taught very well about predjudice and hatred. They need to be dealt with immediately, and OnlyUCan should not be tolerating this kind of disrespect from her children...towards you or anyone else. As their mother, she should be taking a role with you by her side to teach them.

Be fully on board with calling the Harley and work their plan, by all means...but, like I said- you need to get control of yourself, grow up and be the man of the house!!!!

Well, there is only ONE SIDE to the truth, and hopefully we can dig down here and find that.

You talked alot about problems on her side, but your multiple affairs are the greatest threat to the marriage. The rest of that stuff is the peelng paint in the bathroom on the Titantic. Your affairs are causing the ship to sink.

Your marriage can't even GET TO a place of recovery until all the affairs stop and the marriage is affair proofed.

What are you doing to control your adultery and affair proof your marriage? Do you want to stay married?

Okay, this starts out sounding good...sort of..."wayward outbreaks" sounds like you have a disease that you have no control of...Of course, you and I know that is UNTRUE, yes?


Well, do you wonder why she would not wish to give you, a serial cheater, her undivided attention? Not real hard to figure that one out is it Dogo?


See above...



You are responsible for setting your own boundaries Dogo...Personal boundaries are called that, BECAUSE they are personal...Think of boundaries as fences...They protect us individually...OUC cannot set boundaries for YOU...She can set them for herself...


So if these things violated YOUR PERSONAL BOUNDARIES, what did YOU do to enforce YOUR boundaries? How did YOU protect YOU? Remember, YOUR boundaries are YOUR responsibility...Trying to lay YOUR responsibilities at the feet of others ain't gonna fly...


You and I disagree here...I see this post as a HUGE pity party...I am a FWS (former wayward spouse) myself, so trust me when I tell ya, "I'm smellin' what you're cookin'"...


Good that you are SAYING this, the rest of your post doesn't tell me that you really believe it though...That you actually live it...Your post is full of "BUTS"...I keep hearing an undertone of "Well sure I've done this stuff, BUT only because they/she did _______." I hear you laying your choices at the feet of others...Your words here betray your true mindset, and I think you have thrown in a few "I own this or thats" because you realize that is what is expected of you by others...not that you actually ARE owning your actions totally and completely...



Good, those are GROWN UP RESPONSIBILITIES...They are what you are supposed to be doing...Surely you don't expect a "hero cookie" for behaving like a grown up when you are in fact a grown up, right?

Do you feel that you are entitled to have affairs because you tend to your responsiblities in life?



Again, where were YOUR boundaries that are intended to protect YOU? What boundaries did YOU set, and how did you healthily enforce them when someone trampled on them?


Well it sounds to me like OUC has set a healthy boundary for herself that she will not accept the interlopers that YOU keep inviting into your marriage...

This really sounds like you are blaming YOUR lack of boundaries on her...That it's somehow her fault that you had to go out and cheat...Um, EXCUSE ME??? Try again Dogo...that ain't gonna cut it here...



Pretty sure you knew/know that one of her HUGE NEEDS is that you do not bring OWs into your marriage...I'll bet you've had lots of discussions about that too...Hasn't stopped you though, has it? Why?



Dogo, that sounds REALLY, REALLY childish...How about you start ACTING instead of REACTING? You be the man that you want to be, regardless of what other people do...Others do not control you...You are responsible for you...

Please tell me that you were not referring to affairs when you said this? I'm pretty sure that I will faint if that is what you meant..."I'll stop having affairs, when you do blah, blah, blah..." No way dude...That's like saying "I'll stop beating you when you ______." Affairs are ABUSE Dogo...Did you know that?



GOOD...Those are positive ACTIONS, not REACTIONS...You need to be the person that you want to be without EXPECTATIONS...You do what you are supposed to in life no matter what...You do the right thing even when no one is watching Dogo...That is CHARACTER...



Dogo, you have abused your wife for several years now...Did you think that wouldn't negatively impact her? Now you are angry that your victim isn't in tip top shape? Does that sound right to you? You must tend to her wounds FIRST...Your needs come after that Dogo...Do you understand?


Dogo, let me give you a little hint...LIES ARE ALWAYS "LAME"...There are NO EXCUSES for lying...Especially to your spouse...

It sounds to me like you have trouble controlling yourself...Do you know the difference between right and wrong Dogo? Did you realize that our prisons are full of people that can't control themselves and don't know right from wrong? Do you need to be in prison Dogo, or are you going to Cowboy Up and admit that you DO know right from wrong and can control yourself, you just didn't choose to...didn't want to?????


Sounds like you are really minimizing the affect of your actions Dogo...Do you realize that Dr. Harley likens adultery to RAPE or the DEATH OF A CHILD? It's THAT serious Dogo...No kidding...Are you willing and ready to treat this with the gravity that it deserves?


Dogo, there are NOT "three sides" to the story of you and OUC...It's actually very black and white...no gray area at all...Adultery is WRONG today, it was WRONG yesterday and will continue to be WRONG from now on out...It will ALWAYS be ABUSE as well...

Right now you need to stop yammering on about the peeling paint in the girl's bathroom of the Titanic and deal instead with the GAPPING HOLE that is causing it to sink...This is TRIAGE Dogo...We deal FIRST with your victim that is lying on the floor bleeding...Let me know when you are ready to do that...I'll be around...

Mrs. W

Brief threadjack: LOL, you might know that when I go about "stealing" some of the words of Mel (The Titanic Analogy) that she'd be right there to beat me to the punch!!!

That is a GREAT analogy, one that I hope Dogo GETS...

Mrs. W

For example, a serial cheater must take EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to ensure he doesn't cheat again. If he had internet affairs, then he stays off the computer unless he is with his spouse. He accounts for every second of his time to his spouse, gives her all passwords, everything. Every aspect of your life should be TRANSPARENT to your spouse.

Are you willing to do that? What are you doing now to prevent it from happening again and to help your wife recover from the DAMAGE you have inflicted upon her?

You do understand that adultery is as traumatic as RAPE of the death of a child, right? Has onlyUcan explained this to you? You have inflicted severe emotional trauma on your wife and I don't get the sense you comprehend this.

Minor metaphor correction:

Titanic was NEW when it sank. There wasn't any peeling paint.

I think the metaphor involves placement of deck chairs.

-ol' 2long

oh, I don't know about that. Paint often peels when not applied correctly, especially to metal surfaces!

I heard it was faulty paint! They got ripped off I tell ya! "Robbery without a gun" as my Granny used to say!

Mrs. W

**snort**

Hey Dogo...your wife tells me that this was a ONE TIME DEAL! You said "her children" and she is saying it was only her oldest DD ONE TIME with the encouragement of her XH, and that her younger boys have never disrespected you this way...She also said her family has embraced you lovingly, so guess what?

This is called the JUSTIFICATIONS OF A WAYWARD!!! and I'm sorry I fell for it...

No more excuses, Dogo...fix yourself or you will lose your M. I'm quite sure that's not what you want or you wouldn't be here.

Get over the name calling cr@p...what you have done to your wife makes you deserve every name in the book and then some. Boo hoo it was a racial attack. Would it have been better if they attacked you for being a horrid human being??? Consider what you have done to your poor wife and then measure that against WORDS. I have been called every name in the book...I have taken cr@p for fostering black children...have been called every racist name for white people while a cop in an all black area. Those things would NEVER be excuses for bad behavior on my part.

If you want help...this is the place to be. If you want someone to hold your hand and say "poor you" over race, gender or religious issues when YOU have been the cause of all that is bad here...well, get ready for a butt kicking.

Thank you for all of you that responded. After today,I get the true validity of my actions toward my wife. I realize the scope of her pain from this. I came here to post to get advice and help through this endeavor.

I have committed to have a session with Dr. Harley to see where things stand. I have also committed to getting help on the outside as well. I will also start in reading of materials to gain more depth to myself and issues.

It would also be a lie if I said that I was not affected by the comments. I definitely had some feelings behind them.

I will continue to post as I take this journey of healing and the rebirth of my marriage with my wife, thank you.


Dogo1

First off, I thank you for responding.

Next, that I truly get what your saying about justification. I feel that it has come to that for me. There a stories on both parts. All I ask is that the information be handled fairly and straight from the hip.

I also want to point out that it went on for a period of time, and yes it was only the oldest girl, to clear that up. Now I get that I am a adult. What I did not know how to handle or go about dealing with was the of that kind of disrespect. These are my wife's children that I am working on bonding with, and there is only so much I can do in that regard of rearing them.

What I hear from the majority of the group is ownership and accountability. I feel that goes both ways.

Thanks again for posting, I'm sure will hear more.

Dogo1

Welcome to MB, Dogo1

Your perceptions are noted.

Now, what questions do you have?


Here's a couple that I have that are central to the issue and need to be answered by you:

Do you want to be married to onlyUcan or don't you? Let's start there. This is NOT a "maybe" question, this is a "yes or no" question. All of the other "things" can be addressed, but NOT if you are not willing to make a commitment.

Next question, are you willing to submit your life to Jesus Christ, and DO what God commands, or is God not to be "central" to your life and to your marriage?

No, it goes ONE WAY. You can only take ownership of YOUR SIDE and focusing on HER won't help you do that. And that is what you need to focus on. There is nothing your wife has done here that is 1/100th as damaging as your affairs.

Remember, it is your actions that are causing the GREATEST DAMAGE in the marriage. Your serial adultery is going to cost you your marriage if you don't get a grip and MAN UP here.

All of the little crap your wife did is no excuse to have an affair and is small change compared to the great damage your affairs have caused.

You need to let HER handle her side of the street and you handle yours.

Dogo,

Welcome to MB. This is where you get to meet those who have walked in your shoes, as you can see from the posts. They are married. They recovered their marriages from their own infidelity (formerly wayward spouse--FWS) or as betrayed spouses (BS).

I'm both, as are others on this forum. I didn't know healthy boundaries, what they were really. I knew tit for tat, giving to get love and I would enforce boundaries without knowing what they were or that I made ("You can't talk to me like that.") I was all over the map.

Reading about Dr. Harley's concepts, Love Busters, Emotional Needs, Rules of Care, Time, Protection and Honesty...all of these were lightbulb moments. And they all are healthy boundaries we make which go around us, our behavior.

I offer this because of what MrsW said...she's right on and I hope you'll hear her. I'm going to describe how I figured out my own while my H was having an A. I hope this will help you in seeing what they are, how they do affect others and how they help with your anger, healing your past grievances and change how you experience your marriage right now.

First, I had to come to the point in myself where I truly wanted to stop repeating. Ever felt like that? Like "How did I get here all over again?" when you thought you were taking different routes, ending up in the same destination...same feelings of anger, guilt, frustration, hurt and shame? I felt like I wasn't understanding what others understood, seemed to me, readily.

First heard about boundaries from my BH during my own A...he was seeing a counselor for depression. Sounds maddening now to think back to that and see crushing pain into my BH would be a good reason, eh? Well, his C didn't see it that way. She did talk to him and asked him what his boundaries were, and he came home and said that the C said we needed boundaries. I said, like what? And he said she didn't say. We talked (me in my foggy state of resentment and entitlment) and I said, "Okay, I'll make a boundary. You can't not talk to me for a week or I'll be angry."

Yes, I'm embarrassed now. Truly. He would withdraw, do the silent treatment...was one of my old hurts and constant fears...and it was real, too. Didn't justify a second of what I chose to do to my marriage, 'k? And it isn't a boundary, really. Didn't go around my behavior so I couldn't enforce it. To make that boundary would have been, "I won't go a week without talking to my spouse." Showed me, though, what I was most craving.

And that's what I heard in your post. So, much later, when BH is now WH in his own A, he agreed to go to MC. We had a session together to get our individual goals for counseling, and then separate sessions, weekly. During my session, I had been reading on MB and asked about boundaries. I was talking about the withdrawal and silent treatment over the course of our marriage. MC had a response that kind of shocked me...

"What you are most craving, you are least giving."

I had to spin in that for a week...before I realized it was true. I hadn't been giving my DH my attention for years, really...when I replayed our times together, I was busy in those times trying to GET his attention and hold it. Same for respect...I didn't look at him as a whole, separate human being in one union with me...I saw him as an extension of me...so he was the cause, the control and cure for my own feelings, thoughts, beliefs and perceptions. If he hated people in general, then that reflected badly on me. If he felt anger, then I caused it...had to cure or control it.

I wasn't truly being considerate, was I? With Harley's ENs and LBs, I figured out what I craved most...and made those my boundaries, to go around me, my behavior, my stuff and my actions.

Honesty came first...was also my #1 EN...that openness part, don't step over that getting to honesty. Means I had to hold myself to volunteering, not being asked. First, I had to know my stuff and then share it. That's intimacy...knowing your own thoughts, feelings, perceptions, beliefs and perspective...and then stating them as mine. This was huge because prior to that, I would think I talked a lot...and I made a lot of noise...lots of "You" statements...not "I" statements. When I really got to where I shared my stuff as mine (not him making me), about me, for me, what was going on in my head, then I truly owned my stuff.

Same for actions.

I changed from reacting to my spouse to acting from my code. That was a huge shift inside me. I stopped saying, "No, he'll think/feel/believe that if I say this."

So O&H became my first boundary. Then respect...which was part of honesty, too, where I stopped myself from seeing him doing and me feeling all the time. Him saying his beliefs and me trying to get those to be mine or vice versa. Respect is knowing I am whole, complete, marvelously made from love by God. I'm a human being, not a human doing. I cannot earn love or punishment...I am made of love. I choose who I love and act from my love, not to get them to do/feel/think anything. Because I choose to love actively.

That sure hit my resentment hard, Dogo. My resentment didn't like that one bit. I'd lived off of it all my life. Now, I had to kiss it goodbye because I had this boundary of respect.

Boundary of consideration...for my actions, what would my H think of my words and actions to others? See, in my foggy mindset, I thought my DH would LIKE seeing me acting charming, funny, sympathetically with other men...see what he's missing...remember me as I was when I was that way with him. How twisted is that? Consideration is truly for our union...to honor The Marriage, even when I don't feel like honoring my partner. Consideration is thinking, "Is this really healthy for me or a distraction or the same ol' stuff in a new disguise?"

Again, the giving to get was right there...focused on getting out of DH what I needed, which is not a boundary enforcement. It's being who I really am, sharing who I am with my DH alone.

Boundary of acceptance...this one had approval tied up in it at first...until I worked my boundary of respect daily. Acceptance is part of respect...accepting DH is my equal. He's a whole, complete and marvelously made being of love, too. I don't know what he thinks, believes, how he perceives or views his experience, even in our marriage, until he shares with me. Don't know his feelings, either. Which was big...because I assumed I knew him through and through...had him pat down to a two-dimensional drawing, all charted out. Had to, in order to justify ever action I took to harm my marriage. Wasn't real or true.

I learned to separate stuff from actions...by doing this in myself, so then I did it with DH. I accept his stuff as his own...not about me...about him. I accept he acted, he chose, he does choose his actions. They are still about him. That way I can see when he acts from love, or acts out in anger, pain or fear.

LBs are unacceptable actions...and where I first learned to enforce my boundaries. Enforcements are predetermined and progressive. You make these steps and apply them to all boundaries.

For my DJs, if I caught myself right after I said one, I had to say it was a DJ, that it violated my boundary, and that assuming others' stuff wasn't what I wanted anymore. Second offense, I had to own it and state I was removing myself for 15 minutes while the anger drugs in me stop flooding, and come back. And I had to come back. Third time, I had to remove myself for two hours until I got myself back in my center. Again, not just leave the house without saying what and where, and when I'd be back to resume our discussion.

Most of the time, the first, recognition and ownership, stops my DJs. Same for AO's and SD's and lying. I was a big AO'er..and realizing that my anger was coming from my pain or fear, wasn't coming in from the words my DH was saying, really kicked the legs out from under that particular signal. Made it so I wasn't trying to hurt back to make my DH stop hurting me...which was at the root of our altercations.

And you know who taught me that? My DH. In one of our sharing sessions, he described growing up as a boy, how one thing another boy would say would tick him off, or vice versa, and they would hit, wrestle, and his mindset would be to hurt the other boy to stop hurting him. He says he carried that into our relationship, his adulthood...and in MC, learned his half (taking offense, taking whatever is said as about him), and how giving love was the flip side of earning punishment...I did for you, so you do for me.

That's not the negotiating and POJA Harley talks about, btw. Just how we learn to love, growing up. Like we can earn it through our actions...sacrifice means safe because it ensures love...and resentment.

To enforce my boundary of Openness and Honesty, I chose to learn how to really listen...my old way was to memorize, verbatim what was said and make it about me, our marriage. We learned to listen and repeat...to hand back what the speaker was saying, to confirm or clarify (act of respect) and also to repeat with filter (how we heard, where we took it inside of us and our reactive thoughts)...not stating our stuff as facts...as our stuff. Not arguing with our partners' thoughts, feelings, perceptions...respecting they are theirs...not ours. We really heard one another, safely...which is what O&H is all about.

Dr. Harley has rules for being friends of good conversation...again, they go around your own behavior, and I believe listen and repeat is the way to clear out our automatic perceptions and to really know our partner's stuff as theirs. When I assume (DJ), I can hear it when I repeat back. My DH is my ally in this...he'll say, "Is that a DJ?" so I'm not going to get one past me, even if I wanted to...we're on the look out for those past habits that tore our marriage apart.

And they are a big part of infidelity, btw, IME.

I hope this helps you in figuring out what you crave most, see where you're least giving it...and how LBs aren't just to others...when you remove your permission to DJ, you can't do so to yourself, either. What you do to yourself, inside, you do to others. LBs aren't about earning love better, IME--they are about acting inward and outward as you really are, who you really are, all along. Bad habits of communication, taking on beliefs instead of choosing yours, and hidden beliefs...those are the LBs which kick our own tushie. So you gotta stop kicking yourself.

You are new every day...so is OUC. Your choice to love her...she can't make you. You can block your own love bank, twist reality and go into fantasy and feel deprived, unaccepted, unappreciated, even invisible...and you gotta know you are not. Don't go into fantasy. Stay in reality where there's real connection, abundance of love, respect, acceptance and consideration...you will experience this when you hold yourself to those boundaries. So will your marriage.

LA

This comment left me speechless.

committed