Wow, the wisdom being posted here is awesome. I bet a lot of lurkers are benefitting from reading, too.

I was also going to suggest a phone consult with the Harleys. How this keeps happening, seemingly annually, and you find out before it goes very far, I agree that it looks a bit like a vie for attention, something to do to perhaps get a certain response for you, instead of being H&O with you. I don't *know* that's his motive, I'm just saying what it looks like from here. I agree that this doesn't seem like the garden-variety serial cheater; and not a question of unmet needs. His actions are his decision, his choice.

I think calling the Harleys would be a very good investment. After the first session I bet you'll have a better idea of whether to plan for just a few sessions or not. In any case I think that will be the most efficient way to deal with this.

I don't know whether you should go to PB or not, again, that's a question for a phone consult with the Harleys.

I agree that you can't "fix" your H or make him change, and I want to re-emphasize that.

{{{{Only}}}}
Being a newbie and a messed up one at that - I can't offer advice but I am hoping and praying that everything turns out ok for you.

That's exactly right B! I've neglected myself and my children while playing warden with him.

So would you say that I have done a good enough Plan A then since he only wants to be at home? (I say that partially laughing, but I really want to know if I have failed at that with my LB)



That's what I'm looking forward to. I have a book to go along with it and Scripture called "He Did Deliver Me From Bondage".

Will the phone counselor (whomever I end up getting) tell us if we should go to Plan B? That would be an amazing relief if that is what they suggest and it's not just coming from me.

See, the thing is....he dives RIGHT in to anything that I want him to do when he thinks that I might be leaving. It's frustrating. But then he "loses interest" and we end up back in the rut.

Whether we separate or not, I'd like to see his personal plan for our Recovery in writing from him and for him to find an accountability partner.

He's also wanting to e-mail FH and that makes me feel very good because I know that FH will not mix words with him in holding him to the spiritual law.

The one thing I think I have going for me this time is that he had come to me asking if he could "lay it all down"...meaning he wanted to put the lying behind him. I didn't ask for that, he offered. It might seem like a small thing for some, but he has never LEAD this Recovery.

Brown,
Thanks for the hug. Maybe now you can see why I'm so personally attached to the thought of you taking NO ACTION in your own situation. I hate seeing people be abused because I've not saved myself.

Be strong Brown. Learn from the others that have been at this for a real long time, learn the good and the bad.

I think you need to work your program and he needs to work his. By all means, contact the Harleys. They can help you with a plan. It doesn't take a great number of sessions to really start making changes.

You might also check out RecoveryNation, which is a program for sex addicts. Your hubby might be one. And oddly enough being a SA has little to do with sex. It is more of a way of dealing with stress and FOO issues. RecoveryNation does have a section for spouses. But remember that his recovery is up to him, and yours is up to you.

The Harleys will give you the tools to make a marital or personal recovery, so you will be fine either way.

I totally agree.

As LA has taught me, we are deep in enmeshment!

My IC already has me on homework of not "reacting" for one (mostly because of DD) and not taking on another person's "anything" (pain, consequence, recovery, responsibility, etc.)

As I catch myself, I'm acknowledging it and backing away.

I have a long way to go, but this time I'm not giving up on ME!

P.S. I will pass along the RecoveryNation information to my H.

OUC...I (and the other great people on this board) am going to try to help your H as much as I can, but I wanted to address this with you directly--I wrote this to him in my post...


No matter what your marital problems are, if your children are using racial slurs, then you need to deal with this IMMEDIATELY! This kind of thing should not be tolerated in any way, shape or form! I would never allow my children to disrespect someone this way, especially if I chose to marry someone outside my race. Help him teach them how ignorant this type of thing is, and don't stop dealing out consequences to them until they have changed. THIS IS NOT VERY CHRISTIAN-LIKE and from your posts, it sounds like you are a Christian. Maybe some church intervention would help.

I was pretty tough on your WH, and I hope you two can work things out, but the above topic is a pretty HUGE issue, obviously, and needs to be addressed immediately.

Thanks Res. He's asked me not to read his post yet until he's had time to read the replies.

I will say this. My DD (the one with Borderline Personality Disorder) according to my WH used a racial slur when she was with her biological father during the 1st year we were M. That's the one and only time that has happened and neither of my sons have disrespected him this way. I have never heard my children use a racial slur around him or around me about him. Their biological father encouraged our children not to respect him since he came in and took his role. He would have done that regardless of his color.

My family has been amazingly open and loving to my WH. My children are children of D and it was very difficult for them. My DD would have problems, regardless of who I remarried because of her own situation. My OS has a great love and respect for my WH and my YS has known him as the father of the home for 1/2 his life.

Since I don't know the entirety of his post, that's all I can say right now.

I do know that he has some severe childhood issues and feeling validated is important for him. I've tried my hardest to put him at the head of our home and show him the respect that a father and husband should have. It has worn on me physically to carry on without our children knowing ANYTHING about the Infidelity and Porn.

I will also add that my DD only trusts WH with her GS while she goes to school (and me of course). He watches him 2 hours before I even make it home - 4 nights a week. And for now, stays up with him since he's not working so I can go to bed to get up early to commute again. Our GS has had a true healing effect on their R. I do recognize they both have past hurts to get over still and are just learning to trust one another.

WOW! Quite different from the way he portrayed it! I am very sorry, then, if that is all that it has occurred. Such are the justifications of a wayward...sheesh!

Let me ask you this--do you feel that he has used these types of lame excuses all along to justify his behavior?

Res,
Yes. He makes a direct correlation between his behavior and me and my children. I think it comes from his childhood, the way his parents disciplined him, which was extremely harsh and his inability to just be plain accountable for his actions without attaching the...."she made me do it"... along with it.

It is extremely hard to relate to someone else's children. I helped raise my ex's six and it was not easy. There were constant problems and it took a long time to work them out.

Do you and hubby spend 15 hours a week doing fun things together without the kids?

Believer,
We spend all evenings and weekends together. What we were taking a look at this week was, did the time we spend together qualify "for both of us" as UA. For example, if were were watching a movie together, etc.

We take weekend getaways several times a year. It's obvious when it's been a few months and one is needed. At Father's Day we did an overnight with a nice dinner and a horse and carriage ride the next day.

There are so many things that are going "right" in our M. That's what makes it so much more painful when he turns to OW.

Enough about WHY he does things. He is a grown man with a little child's intellect.
Your H is truly not a "man" in many ways. He is immature, cruel and whining. MB cannot help him in my opinion. He needs intensive therapy and should address his addictions and race issues. Seems to me that he will use anything for a crutch...from his upbringing, your behavior and even your children..."she wants me accountable but not them"...boo-frickin-hoo.

Do yourself a favor and find yourself.

OUC, I think this is because he is competing with your children on many levels because of his maturity level. It is because of this that he views you as a mother figure, instead of a wife. Is he much younger than you?

OUC - one thing to consider about counseling with Harleys - I worked with W Harley for myself - not on the marriage issues, simply because the addiction had to be dealt with first. Harley himself will tell you that Plan A especially will not work with an active addict.

So I suggest saving the money for the session until husband has reached a measure of sobriety where you can discuss emotional needs with an idea that it's a two way street.

I must have missed this? What is he addicted TO?

Mel - I may have spoke prematurely or mis-spoke entirely - but his rantings remind me so much of some of the active SAs I've been around. The way he treats OUC as a mother who is unjustly measuring out the discipline, instead of a wife he is wounding with his misconduct.

How many addicts have you been around who have treated their spouse like a parent that they're rebelling against than a partner? And they complain just like Dogo does, that the demands and boundaries of their "anon" partner are outrageous and unreasonable...

His post reeks of addiction rather than simple waywardness.

Mel,
He is 4 years younger than me. I have felt that he is jealous of any attention I give my children. And he acts the way my step-father used to be when we were growing up where they need to "ask" for certain food items that he has bought specially. I finally convinced him to just take up the cupboard space that is above the refrigerator for all his "special" stuff and then the kids don't even know it's there so they won't want that and not the regular food that we have purchased.

He's definitely got the child mentality like medc described. But I can't fix that anymore. I've been trying to push him to be something that I'm not really qualified to be (the man of the house).

And I have lost myself in the process and that's where my focus needs to be, for sure.

P.S. I would say that he is addicted not only to the OW, but also to acting out with porn. He uses it as a way to punish me when he is angry that I'm not meeting an EN (so he says). He has viewed porn since he was 5 so I wasn't the reason for all the acting out his entire life. I think he mentioned the porn on his post as well.

You are exactly right. MB will help you recover and have a happy life whether or not your husband changes. His recovery will be his problem and yours will be for you to work on. Then maybe you can recover the marriage.

He has voiced some complaints about the marriage and family and I suggest you address them. It is always prudent to take any disatisfaction seriously and work on making changes.

Then, you move on with your recover. Don't mother him or get involved in his recovery. He needs to step up to the plate on his own.

But if you recover, he will need to change also. Or you will be healthy enough to know what you need to do.

Hang in there and don't get distracted. I can't tell you how much a 12 step program changed me and my life.