The letter is a MUST. A dealbreaker if you will.

No letter, no committment, no marriage.

You absolutely need to INSIST on a NC letter. It is not a DJ for you to do so.

I'd say HER refusal to send an NC letter (that you MUST approve before she sends it) is going to create some MORE trouble for you.

dude, there's a psychological reason for the NC letter, IMO. It's very symbolic and dramatic, takes effort, takes the two of you being 'together' and on the same path, and pretty much is a 'no take-backs' step for her. Which should help her keep from slipping up and calling him when she's feeling weak. Lots of reasons in there.

I agree with cat.

Sounds to me like she's not at all planning to NC. I'd be a little suspicious of her if I were you.

And rain, if you are reading this, you need to understand how important the NC letter is. The verbal is NOT enough.

Do you like being called Dude? I ask because I almost just typed...

Hey, Dude...

and heard this intro song to a Nickelodeon show my sons used to watch. I gave me pause.

LOL

MrDude...

Two things...one, DJ's hurt us...that's us hurting us, btw...as well as hurting others. Assumptions and mindreading do not make us safer, more loved or less harmed. They sure try hard to make it that way, though. Kudos to you ridding your life of DJs because they weren't real anyway. The harm is real, not the DJs, I mean.

Next, I wanted to third or fourth Cat's post. What she does separately from you, like verbal NC, doesn't count for the marriage. Takes your mutual participation...so re-doing the NC request in writing, mailing together (better than email) is really important. Also, changing her email address to prevent contact is great...same for cell/phone numbers if applicable.

We do our part...can't stop others...just do our own steps to back up our true goal of working on the marriage without undue influence, for clarity and honesty (which is reality).

You can't make her...you just know it's a condition of recovery for you or not. If she changes all the ways to prevent contact and acts transparently, would that be enough for you?

If not, the NC is such a great symbol...like Cat says...stated desires do that...and to state true desire to have NC is terrific place to begin recovery.

Kudos to ya for being here, MrDude...for your marriage, therainisgone, and yourself...you don't know how much you've helped folks here on MB lurking and posting. Nothing you do doesn't ripple...I promise.

LA

Aloha dude,


I know lots of people are saying that the NC letter is a must. The letter is to make it known to the OM that there is to be no more contact.

The bottom line is this.

Do you believe that there is no contact between rain and the OM?

The letter isn't the goal. No contact is the goal. If that has been reached and is maintained, that is what is important. Granted not exactly like everyone would like, but there is no contact and withdrawal should be taking place to some degree.

What is important for you is to find a way to make deposits in her love bank. What does your Plan A look like?

Do something the two of you haven't done in a long time together. Make it short but fun for her. Even if you aren't totally excited about it.

I know that it's hard. But there is hope. We're here to help.

Blessings.


S&C

S & C - when I read those posts I wonder if they have READ a No Contact letter and what is said in a No Contact letter?

Dude's wife is nowhere ready to commit to the marriage, to recovery efforts, etc. So what would be the "point" of a No Contact letter at this juncture? (Rhetorical question)

I agree that the NC letter is pointless for Rain at this time. She has no committment to this marriage and is in such a fog that she can barely see. What I did catch though was how abysmal last weekend was for both of you.

I am a former BW who is still desperately in love with the man I married and he feels the same about me. we got that way because I lifted myself out of heartbreak and depression and showed him the woman he proposed to. I owned my part in the state of our M pre-affair and did something about it. He was and is remorseful and has spent most days since D-day letting me know that. We have rebuilt our M out of ashes. You can too.

Rain says you are depressed. Are you? Do something positive about that. I have never witnessed a WS that needs plan A more than Rain. Please read her post about last weekend if you have not already. I am not discounting your feelings, believe me, I have walked a mile in your shoes. I am also not saying that given the extent of Rain's fog and her unwillingness to even examine other points of view, that plan D should not be an option for you. I just think that you owe it to yourself and your son to give improving this M your best shot. If you fail to R, your son will still see and appreciate your effort.

Read up on Plan-A and search your heart to see if you have what it takes to attempt R.

God's Blessings,

Say

Have you considered counseling with the Harley's? I highly recommend it.

I understand money, work, and school makes it difficult.

But I think this would help you both immensely.

MUCH cheaper than divorce.

The Harley's can help BOTH you and rain find a direction and definate steps to follow. ACTIONS to take that will be the best chance at recovery.

I imagine that you both feel like fish out of water right now. Flopping around trying to breathe but not really knowing how.

The EXPERTS can tell you. They've seen this time and time again.

Please consider it. Soon.

Fox

I think you would be surprised. She may WANT to commit but is incredibly FEARFUL.

We BS's know how much FEAR can cripple you.

Feel the fear and do it anyway.

IMO, I think Plan A is a GREAT idea. Ease her fears a bit. REMIND her of the man you are.

Fox

FH,



Egg-zack-lee. If she really isn't ready, then anything in the NC letter will be a lie and any contact will be done underground. If the goal is doing the letter, the goal should be to do one letter and make it stick.

S&C

Dude,

I want to quote JL...


He is right. We have harder cases here, trust me.

We just need to find a way to keep her focused on the fact that you do love her and she is worth fighting for.

Blessings.

S&C

You okay, dude?

Thanks, I think I'm doing ok. She definitely has breaks in her fog starting last night. I had a very productive night talking to her, but we will see. I think we are both so tired from talking R that we did not post much today, plus we can't afford to get fired from our jobs. I'm still here and hanging in there. I hope her attitude last night carries over into tonight.

Dude,

Well the head out of the fog doesn't always last very long, but it is a start. Good for you about not always being here on the forums. rain's thread has an awful lot of people posting to her. It's easy to be distracted with all of them. Hopefully she'll be able to see the ones that are helpful (not just what she wants to hear) and to not feel like she has to respond to all of them.

It is good to not talk about the R and just do stuff that's fun for the two of you. If there's a place where she likes to go to relax, maybe a good idea to do that with no strings attached. Or go see a comedy so you two get to laugh about something.

Keep us updated when you can. ...and don't get fired.

Blessings and prayers your way.

S&C

It's been an interesting past few days. A lot of ups and downs. I really don't know where I am at right now personally. I am still standing to reconcile things, and my plan A that started months ago is still ongoing. She is still in love with OM, and will tell me so straight to my face if I push the issue. Not good words to hear by any means.

The commitment to work on our marriage last week was followed hours later by a divorce talk and she admitted to seeing a lawyer that day about custody, as many here had warned her that I had a lot of leverage, so she was worried. She said the lawyer agreed I had leverage, but to what extent? I haven't really discussed it too much after that, nor have I gone out to see a lawyer myself. I'm still just not ready for that yet. I hope he wasn't expensive, because it was really a waste of money at this point.

We went out this weekend and had a good time. The hard part was knowing that the distance and coldness she exhibits at times. It is also hard to know that she wishes she were with someone else when she is with you. You can look over at her and just see the dead, lifeless expression sometimes. It goes against everything in my being to put up with it. Her first affair was over and dead long before I found out, so I have never had to deal with this. Before she did everything possible to make me feel wanted and loved, but this time, she has done everything possible to divide us. It's really sick to think about.

How can 2 people who have just "talked" and probably only been out together to eat a couple of times be so "in love". She still insists they haven't kissed, touched, anything. I suppose you have to make something special however you can when you are screwing around emotionally and grasping for justifications. They phoned and texted all day and half the night for most days the past 6 months, so I'm sure my 2-3 "hey how are you's" from me during the day are nothing special.

I don't have a solid plan at this point, at least not what I consider a plan. I'm still fence sitting between divorce and reconcile, and have put the burden for recovery onto her. If she wants to work it out, I am willing, but if not, I am willing too. A plan B will be impossible without one of us moving out. She has no plans to move out, so it will be up to me. We are financially not viable at the moment to support 2 households, so it will take some creativeness to get this accomplished. We live with her parents (the enablers, so moving out is very attractive to me, but it puts me in a bad position relative to my son, who really needs me around for a good role model right now.

When was the last time she had contact with OM?

You may have stated this earlier and I missed it, but how long have you been doing Plan A?

It has been 2 weeks today since no contact. I tend to beleive this, but ask me tomorrow and it could be a different story. I think he initiated the no contact, as a ploy to force her hand in the matter. She has reacted that way anyway. She has been pushing and pressing for a divorce ever since so she can be with him.

I have been in an unofficial plan A for the past 3-4 months, improving myself and getting myself ready to be on my own. I think it had a lot to do with her affair ending, as it became too painful for her the more attractive I became.

honestly...your wife is a fraud.

Speak to an attorney and secure the custody of your child and your finances.

Your wife is a cancer...remove her before it kills you.

I know that is not helpful.....but what else can be said?


Do you have a timeline for when you plan on ending Plan A and going to Plan B?

You'll want to end Plan A on a high note as you disappear into Plan B.

What is your energy level? Do you feel like you can continue Plan A or are you at the end of your rope?

Have you read up on 180?

Have there been outbreaks of LoveBusters during your Plan A?

Is rain being withdrawn and wounded or is she being hateful and mean?