O.K. back to the topic at hand.

I initially ONLY stayed in my marriage because I wanted to be with my kids. If I was certain that I could have gotten full-time custody I would have divorced. I don't think I would have gotten custody, so I stayed. And that was not altruistic, I stayed for a personally matter, I valued my time with my children more than I valued a happy marriage.

But, so what? It was the right thing to do. I made promises when I married. I broke many of them. I was determined to try to keep the "till death do you part" part. And I am glad I did. I still have my family. My wife and I are mostly, I think, reconciled.

So, I guess I don't see why it matters why someone initially makes the decision to stay. The initial motivation may have been the catalyst to make changes that will make a happy marriage possible. There are a lot of reasons to stay in am marriage after infidelity: financial, love, children, duty, a promise made. . .

Surprise, Introvert! Even I "attest" to this. There ARE legitimate reasons for a divorce.




MEDC, if "mentioning God" is "preaching," I'll stand convicted.

Not sure what's been going on in your life lately, MEDC, but you do seem to be advocating divorce on an increasingly frequent basis of late.




And interesting statement, Introvert. Just what about Christ is NOT "fact" to you, who also claim to be a Christian?

For the record, I NEVER "preach religion," I stand for Christians submitting their lives TO Christ in humble obedience as their LORD as well as their Savior. What about that is not "Right" with you, as a believer in Christ?

Where does "being a Christian" allow for "conforming yourself" to the world or to the culture you live in?

Children are a gift from God and are not to be "abused" so that the adults can do whatever they feel like doing. Do you object to that also?

Where does forgiveness and reconciliation "fit" within your "dodo bird" reasoning if considering the children is NOT to be part of the "recovery equation?"

Thank you

TryingToLetGo....let it go. Get it?

I would like to ask anyone with a child, who is in the situation of "I'm doing it for the kid(s)" (don't take my quote out of context, please)...do you consider your child to be part of your marital union, of sorts?... edit : and, the child is part of your recovery process with your spouse?

introvert I have no problem with the original post at all ... you were seeking out something and well it got twisted and wadded up like a piece of paper. Anyways, I just wanted to let you know

When me and H were on the verge of Divorce I never once thought about staying together for the children. Some have just for the childrens sake but in the long run why? Besides not having kids come from "broken" homes? My H and I were from broken homes. WE stayed together not because of the kids but because we worked and are working on our M. I personally will not stay together just for the children. I believe you have to look at everything as a whole and what will benfit everyone.

[quote=introvert]I would like to ask anyone with a child, who is in the situation of "I'm doing it for the kid(s)" (don't take my quote out of context, please)...do you consider your child to be part of your marital union, of sorts?... /quote]

To quote one of my children "well duh!"

Yes I see my children as part of my marriage, without the marriage there would have been no children. Without the children I would no longer be married.

I came back to the marriage because of the children. They are a large part of the reason that I am still in the marriage. But they are not the only reason of course. I'm there now because I want a stable family . . . and I love my wife. I don't know if I could stay married for another 15 years just for the kids . . . if I felt no love for my spouse I don't think I could stay that long.

My life is great FH...as I told you recently when you brought up the same thing. I wouldn't trade my life for anything.

I call them as I see them...I have zero doubt that we will frequently agree on things. Based on outcomes, I would say that my impressions are accurate the vast majority of the time when it comes to how to deal with a particular WS.

As for your posts FH, you do what you do...I happen to think that you stand the chance of having people tune you out (and perhaps be turned off to Christianity) because of the tone of your posts. Just my opinion.

Then, to yourself and others that answer yes to my question.

If the children are part of the marital union, and are part of your recovery process...I would assume that you have already told them that THEY are the reason that you are still mariied to their mom/dad?...using the MB priniple of honesty and openess? If you have disclosed this to them, then kudos...if you haven't disclosed this to the child...why not? (obviously the child being an infant is a reason)

Okay so you choose to ignore my questions and move on, no problem. I only asked the questions to try to get you to look at your discussion style and maybe see that it needs a bit of help.

As for children being part of the marital union. My H and I and our daughter are a family which would not be without our marital union. So while our daughter was not born when our marital union began she was born from our marital union and in my eyes is an integral part of it.

Neither would I.

Yes, I have told my D17 this, after particularly stressful occasions. I have told her that I believe that my H, who wants nothing more than to spend every waking moment with me and her, would make our lives a living hell if I were to leave before she moves out. And that I prefer to work on my marriage so that it will be the best possible family for her to grow up in as I can make it.

you lost me on this one Introvert. CHILDREN are not due radical honesty. That is between the husband and wife. And there is NO WAY a child should be burdened with that guilt.

I do not see the point in discussing that stuff any longer...we will agree to disagree. I hope you see my next question, and can answer it though.

I would never put that pressure on the shoulders of a child. It it the parents responsibility to shoulder the adult aspects of a marriage.

I'm shaking my head. Did you really just ask that question? Yep I read it again and you did.

Once again you are proving my point that until you are a parent you will not understand.

I said that I view children as part of the marriage, I didn't say they were part of the marital union.

AS Dr. Harley explains Radical Honesty is a concept to be used between spouses. My wife knows why I stayed. She stayed too for the same reason. If you asked her now, I'm sure she would say there is more to our marriage than the children. At one time that was all there was, but it was enough. And we survived.

I take it you are "shaking your head" at catperson's honest approach to children, as well? Is catperson not understanding?

The point being that just because someone disagrees with you does not give you the right to call them name and shift the blame and ignore.

I did answer your question. But it appears to me that you really do not want to hear what I am saying and are just looking for a way to prove that staying together for the kids is a copout.

medc, in most cases you are right. In my situation, it was my D17 wanting to move out, and me choosing, for her, that we would stay and I would use MB to see how I can improve my half of our M, because the alternative would be worse. With younger children, they should not be privy to marital discussions. But with a 16 year old who was totally conflicted and confused, I felt it was appropriate. And as it turns out, she is learning from me that you have to work on a M to get good results, so I feel she's benefiting from knowing.